Elements 1.21

[icybraker]

More balanced... perhaps. But nobody would use the Elite Graboid. The vast majority of Graboid decks have a Time Mark but no Time Pillars, thus making you have to wait twice as long* to play the Elite Graboid than the Graboid.

* : In many situations

[Baily18]

Or you can simply change Eilite Shriekers to 10/3

[Xinef]

Right now, The AI3 Farming Challenge (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1874.0.html) proves, that unupped graboid rush is equally good as mono-life and pilarless rainbow rush, probably mono-fire too.

This means that unupped graboids need no nerf.

On the other hand upgraded graboid decks would still be good, just use quicksands rather than rewinds, and always 6 elite shriekers, maybe reduce the number of elite graboids and replace 1 or 2 with elite antlions or gavels.

[CB!]

Looking from the trainer:

Electrum Hourglass cost +1
Feral Bond cost +1

There's a list summarizing all the changes [here] (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,4049.0.html).

[Tea is good]

Good to see the mulligan, still don't know where the name came from, but people keep talking about it so w/e.

[jmizzle7]

Mulligan is a golf term that means retry, but with a shot penalty. In card games it means reshuffle/deal with a penalty, usually a single card.

[prion]

I think that it is a mistake to raise the cost of Feral Bond and Firefly Queen. This wont hurt rainbow, but will hurt the dual FFQ decks. And I don't think that those FFQ deck are dominant in the game and they need to be weaker.

I think that the main problem is that no one really knows what cards are too strong right now, because there isn't serious PVP play. These changes are kinda random without real evidence. Why to nerf the hourglass until there inst any good time deck that would be dominant? And who knows how dominant rainbow is, until there isn't serious PVP play? Maybe we will find that fast PVP decks can beat rainbow. maybe not. But we don't know it right now. So I think that, only very weak cards should be changed right now.

[Essence]

I think the best solution would be to nerf elite graboids only, because elite ones are both much harder to kill (owls eye, RoF) and 2 more damage for the same cost... so I would say unupped graboids are balanced, but elite ones are OP.
Look at dragons, most dragons cost increases when you upgrade them, I think the same should be with graboids.
3 1 for a 8/3 creature
3 2 for a 10/4 creature
Seems more balanced, don't you think?

Q.F.T.

[orgolove]

The biggest problem for the graboids is the quanta. If, say, it costs  for the evolve, there would not be a problem. But by allowing two of the most powerful (in terms of control) elements to come together to make a deck as fast as, if not faster than, the rush decks, you are really unbalancing the game.


And to the !@##$%% IDIOT that said this:

Right now, The AI3 Farming Challenge (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1874.0.html) proves, that unupped graboid rush is equally good as mono-life and pilarless rainbow rush, probably mono-fire too.

This means that unupped graboids need no nerf.

Are you dumb? The very fact that they are as fast as mono life and mono fire decks specifically shows how imbalanced they are. The very nature of mono life and mono fire decks mean they sacrificed utility/control for speed. Graboid decks can match a deck that completely goes for speed, sacrificing everything else, and yet has so much more resilience, durability, and control.


Really, this needs to be fixed.

[Essence]

Orglove, be careful because you're walking a thin line logically.  Sure, Graboids have heinous speed -- but they're fragile unless you Burrow them at which point they're not fast anymore. 

But more importantly, you can only have 6 Graboids in a deck.  You have a choice then, in going for more speed (though many people wouldn't consider Shrieker on it's own to be terribly fast at 8 for 8 damage) OR some control (usually EQ+Rewind.)  The control version isn't actually that fast -- it relies on slowing your deck down to give itself a chance, and if you can work around that slowdown (Pillarless decks, untargetable creatures, super-cheap creatures) it loses.

The speed version has the Burrow/unBurrow problem mentioned earlier where it's basically as fragile as a Fire deck but with less ability to spike (no direct damage, slower quanta gain) OR it's as slow as an Aether deck but with a turn of vulnerability before the creatures settle in to whittle you down.  There's a little power in that flexibility, but it's paid for by a Mark that's basically sitting there useless for 70% of the game.

Summary: Don't credit any single deck with being able to do everything that the element it's based on can do. 

[jigga456]

My 2 cents for what it's worth.

New cards are awesome, kudos to zanz for his hard work.

As for Rainbow decks.  I think the reason people use rainbows so much is b/c it has the highest win pct vs FG's. If there was a mono deck with better stats against all FG's I'd use that one.

If you nerf the rainbow and weight the FG's the win pct will go down. Unless a mono deck catches up, people will still use the rainbow, although with a lower win pct frustration will grow.

It's easy to make a deck that works against one FG, but the point is to make a deck that works the best against all FG's and that would be a rainbow.

I wasn't here before the Sundial nerf but isn't that basically what happened then also? The win pct for rainbows went down but everyone stuck with the rainbow b/c it has the highest win pct.

So, I think the solution would be to try to make mono decks better, not nerf Rainbows, which is why I like the new cards but I think punishing Rainbows is counterproductive.

We're trying to beat the FG's, not lower the win pct of Rainbows to force people to use mono decks with an equally low win pct.

[killfer8]

I like the new elements, when is it going to be out?? I^d like to test the new fractal card