Elements 1.21

[xdude]

But the larger creatures have more HP, and thus can survive longer...

More HP? Really now, drowning has nothing to do with how resistant you are to other effects. An elephant can take more hammers than a mosquito, But it WILL drown faster. And Immaterial creatures shouldn't be affected.

[killsdazombies]

But the larger creatures have more HP, and thus can survive longer...

More HP? Really now, drowning has nothing to do with how resistant you are to other effects. An elephant can take more hammers than a mosquito, But it WILL drown faster. And Immaterial creatures shouldn't be affected.

i think they should there has to be at least ONE way to kill them....

[icybraker]

But the larger creatures have more HP, and thus can survive longer...

More HP? Really now, drowning has nothing to do with how resistant you are to other effects. An elephant can take more hammers than a mosquito, But it WILL drown faster. And Immaterial creatures shouldn't be affected.

i think they should there has to be at least ONE way to kill them....

There already is. It's called "Fire Shield".

I agree with xdude; Immortal creatures should NOT be affected by Flood. Fire Shield makes a shred of sense, but Flood killing immortal creatures does not. Fire Storm does not target either, and it doesn't harm immortal creatures. We need consistency, and that means not affecting immaterial creatures with Flood.

[Xinef]

But the larger creatures have more HP, and thus can survive longer...

More HP? Really now, drowning has nothing to do with how resistant you are to other effects. An elephant can take more hammers than a mosquito, But it WILL drown faster. And Immaterial creatures shouldn't be affected.

Have you ever seen a drowning mosquito? I've seen a number of times and they seem to die very fast if covered in water, because (as far as I know) they breathe through many small holes along their whole body, so they cannot 'keep their breath' and generally small creatures have faster metabolism, so I guess mosquitoes die really fast when drowning, even if they remain on the surface of water.
On the other hand an elephant (... though I have never seen a drowning one ;P ...) could probably at least try to swim (I don't know if elephants are able to swim, but they are at least able to cross rivers and shallow lakes), depending on the circumstances he might even be able to keep his trunk over water to breathe, and I'm pretty sure he would survive much longer than a mosquito. I'm not sure though if elephants density is close to waters, or higher... as far as I know it depends mostly on the bone mass (bones are the only part of the body with density notably higher than waters) and volume of lungs (as long as they are not filled with water they are the main body part that lowers the average density.

IMHO drowning speed is not related to size, but to how much a certain creatures is adjusted to swimming. Small creatures can be adjusted to swimming, or not, as well as big creatures might be adapted to swimming or not. The shape of limbs, the way a creature breathes, it's density and body structure, all are much more important than overall size IMHO.

So game-wise I guess and immortal should be immune to drowning and nothing else. It keeps the rules simple and should work, and I guess the instant kill makes the most sense, because even if a creature is able to survive longer before drowning, if it is unable to swim (or fly) it would be also unable to attack in such circumstances.

[BluePriest]

But the larger creatures have more HP, and thus can survive longer...

More HP? Really now, drowning has nothing to do with how resistant you are to other effects. An elephant can take more hammers than a mosquito, But it WILL drown faster. And Immaterial creatures shouldn't be affected.

i think they should there has to be at least ONE way to kill them....

There already is. It's called "Fire Shield".

I agree with xdude; Immortal creatures should NOT be affected by Flood. Fire Shield makes a shred of sense, but Flood killing immortal creatures does not. Fire Storm does not target either, and it doesn't harm immortal creatures. We need consistency, and that means not affecting immaterial creatures with Flood.

I think flood not effecting it would be pretty incosistent.
So far, spells dont effect them, and creature abilities dont effect them. But ALL permanents DO effect them. Nightfall effects them, sundials effect them, all shields effect them. This shouldnt be any different in my opinion. Otherwise we will have to start questioning which permanents effect them, and which dont.

The only one to throw this off is unstable gas, but you use its effect as a spell, not as a permanent. If this is a constant effect, and just constantly drains 3 water, then I think it should be effected, as all other permanents that are like that effect immaterial creatures.

Unstable gas, you activate its ability, so its more like a creature ability than a permanent. So if you have to activate this ability, then i think they shouldnt be effected to maintain consistency. however, as it sounds like now, as a consistent, ongoing effect, so following cards as they are so far, i feel the most logical thing would be to effect permanents.

[Zeru]

Eagle eye and Eternity do not affect them

[xdude]

Immaterial creatures are pretty... Immaterial. Can you imagine ghosts drowning?

[BluePriest]

I added soemthing shortly after

Eagle eye and Eternity do not affect them

and this was even before I noticed it. Weapon effects follow the same premise. They are more of spells or creature abilities, than effects, since you have to activate them, whereas you dont have to activate sundials, you just play them, and while they are on the field, they have thier effect

Immaterial creatures are pretty... Immaterial. Can you imagine ghosts drowning?

As much as I could imagine it hitting something (if the ghost was alive anyway)

[Wisemage]

Its already been discussed why shields effect immortals, flood still shouldnt effect them.

[BluePriest]

Its already been discussed why shields effect immortals, flood still shouldnt effect them.

and nightfall? Or sundial? I mean, whn you really think about it, the confusing thing would be to make it not effect them, as all other cards that follow the same premise do effect them.

honestly, I havent tested nightfall on a quinted creature, but if it effects them, then so should this. And Im guessing it does

[Kamietsu]

Its already been discussed why shields effect immortals, flood still shouldnt effect them.

I don't want it to affect them, but it should. Immaterial creatures are affected by shields because they have to turn material again to attack the opponent, thus being blocked by their shield. Well once they turn material to attack, that's when they drown.

[BluePriest]

Its already been discussed why shields effect immortals, flood still shouldnt effect them.

I don't want it to affect them, but it should. Immaterial creatures are affected by shields because they have to turn material again to attack the opponent, thus being blocked by their shield. Well once they turn material to attack, that's when they drown.

agreed, Someone said earlier that the elementals arent covered by the flood (cause otherwise they would drown), so the immaterials shouldnt be effected by it, but who says they would drown if they are the ones controlling the water?