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rainingblood

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Nymphomania (anti-FG) + stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2630.msg21303#msg21303
« on: January 29, 2010, 02:48:19 pm »
So I tried my hand at a nymph deck... After working out various card combination's I finally came up with this variant, which I've been testing for the past few days. I have to say, this is my favorite deck so far, after playing elements for a few months now. It's fun and extremely effective, with a very high percentage of elemental masteries. The deck strategy involves the new nymph's tears and anti-matter/liquid shadow effect. Basically, you want to bring out an immortal purple nymph as early as possible, and start debuffing the enemy creatures. That should buy you enough time to bring out an immortal black nymph. At that point you simply use liquid shadow on the most damaging creatures, inverting their damage onto the enemy. The card ratio in the deck isn't random either, it's been calibrated to avoid bad draws and pull off the strategy as early as possible. I can't guarantee the same results if you use a variant or un-upgraded version of this deck.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
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6qq 6qq 6qq 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7h0 7h0 7h0 7h0 7h0 7t4 7t4 80h 80h 80h 80h 8pj


Mark is Entropy
Pros:
- High percentage of elemental masteries (pay attention to creature order).
- Extremely effective against 8 out of 20 false gods.
- Bad draws are kept at a minimum.
- Works against shielded enemies (except fire shield).
- Works against miracle spell (God's don't calculate debuff damage).
- Works surprisingly well against poison (Morte but not Scorpio oddly enough).

Cons:
- Growth, ablaze, immortal, and burrowed creatures are a pain.
- Fallen druid, mutation, and devour are 'sometimes' used on debuffed creatures.
- Small and fast creatures can be hard to manage with anti-matter/liquid shadow (e.g., paradox).

Check points:
- Getting a nymph tear, quintessence, 2 supernovas, and an amethyst tower in the first 10 cards.
- Getting enough quanta to pull out an early purple nymph with immortality.
- The deck stands or falls depending on whether or not you accomplish these first 2 steps.

The following are some stats and observations that I recorded while testing out the deck.

Total Games Won = 73 / Total Cards Won = 36 (50%)

Obliterator: 10 elemental masteries/0 losses (easy)
- Lots of big creatures for anti-matter/liquid shadow.

Miracle: 9 elemental masteries + 1 win/0 losses (easy)
- Dragon's are perfect targets for anti-matter/liquid shadow.
- No creature control - quintessence is unnecessary.
- Doesn't play miracle since debuff damage is not taken into account.

Destiny: 5 elemental masteries + 4 wins/1 loss (easy)
- Very slow in building up his forces - buy's you a lot of time to bring out a nymph.
- No creature control besides reverse time and eternity - make's quintessence less important.
- Fallen druids might mess with the debuffed creatures.

Gemini: 6 elemental masteries + 2 wins/2 losses (easy)
- Extremely easy since debuff damage bypasses the phase shields.
- No creature control - quintessence is unnecessary.
- Both losses come from immortals doing more damage than debuffed creatures.

Incarnate: 5 elemental masteries + 2 wins/3 losses (easy)
- Vampire damage is automatically inverted after anti-matter.
- Losses came from bad draws.

Morte: 2 elemental masteries + 5 wins/3 losses (easy)
- Archangels and Bone Dragons are perfect targets for debuff.
- Anti-matter/liquid shadow effect outweighs poison damage most of the time.
- Archangels prevent creatures dying from liquid shadow.
- Losses came from bad draws and a fast start for Morte.

Paradox: 2 elemental masteries + 5 wins/3 losses (easy)
- No creature control - quintessence is unnecessary.
- Anti-mattered deja-vu's duplicate the effect.
- Doesn't play miracle since debuff damage is not taken into account.
- Very fast and small creatures (deja-vu's and RoL) are sometimes hard to control.
- If possible you want to avoid debuffing his strongest creature - wait for twin universe, then debuff.
- Losses came from bad draws and a fast start for Paradox.

Chaos Lord: 5 elemental masteries + 1 win/4 losses (medium)
- Lots of big creatures for anti-matter/liquid shadow.
- Debuff damage goes through shields.
- The fallen druids and improved mutations can be a nuisance.
- Losses came from bad draws/mutation/fast damage.

Graviton: 1 elemental mastery + 2 wins/7 losses (hard)
- A lot of fast damage and creatures with Graviton - pretty hard to control but high pay off on debuff.
- The ablaze ability can be irritating since it reverses the anti-matter effect.
- Otyugh's eat up the debuffed creatures - you might want to use liquid shadow on them first.
- Losses came from bad draws, fast starts, and losing control of his creatures.

Rainbow: 2 elemental masteries + 1 win/7 losses (hard)
- Lot's of big damage for anti-matter/liquid shadow.
- Doesn't play miracle since debuff damage is not taken into account.
- Shriekers and Forest Specter's are hard to control.
- Tends to pull out a lot of high damage in a short amount of time - overpowers the debuff's. 
- Be careful of the order you play the towers - the steals and explosions can screw up quanta supply.
- Losses come from bad draws, losing towers, and being overwhelmed by fast damage.

Seism: 2 elemental masteries/8 loses (hard)
- Earthquakes consistently ruin any early game advantage.
- Lots of burrowed creatures and fast damage - hard to control.
- If you bother playing him make sure to play 1 tower at a time and pay attention to their order.
- Losses come from losing towers and being overpowered.

Dark Matter: 1 elemental mastery/9 losses (hard)
- Lots of big creatures to debuff.
- Blackhole and gravity nymph completely paralyze this deck.
- Single win comes from the only time I managed to get the purple/dark nymph combo out.
- If you bother playing him you should hold onto the supernova's until the last moment.
- Losses are due to quanta being devastated by blackhole/gravity nymph.

Hermes (Impossible)
- Lots of big damage with a very fast build up - hard to control.
- Fire Specter's and Lava Golem's are a pain in the ass due to growth/ablaze.
- Fire shield, for some dumb reason, actually damages immortal creatures - game over.
- Losses due to many factors, I didn't win a single game.

Ferox (Impossible)
- Losses due to empathy, not a single game won.

Elidnis (Impossible)
- Immortal Forest Specter's and Dragons are a huge problem.
- Empathy ruins any possibility to win.
- Losses come from many factors, didn't win a single game.

Fire Queen (Impossible)
- Same as above, empathy = death.

Scorpio (Impossible)
- Extremely fast damage from poison.
- Doesn't have enough big creatures for anti-matter to outweigh poison.
- Ice Shield breaks through immortality.
- Losses result from being overwhelmed by poison - not a single game won.

Divine Glory (Impossible)
- Don't even bother - all creatures are immortal - no chance.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 05:05:09 am by willng3 »

ivalmian

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Re: Nymphomania (anti-FG) + stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2630.msg21351#msg21351
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 05:05:08 pm »
nice and probably fun to play, but is quite worse than standard rainbow

Offline Terroking

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Re: Nymphomania (anti-FG) + stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2630.msg21421#msg21421
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 09:46:57 pm »
Looks very short on darkness quantum, you can only have 1 pillar out max, that's nowhere near enough to fuel the ability, 3 QTs aren't much help.

Also it looks like this deck is rainbow but only uses 3 types of quanta, taking them out and adding 1-2 dark pillars and maybe 1-2 aether pillars might work well (maybe switch mark to aether and take another amethyst tower?).
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Offline Jangoo

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Re: Nymphomania (anti-FG) + stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2630.msg21439#msg21439
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2010, 11:17:19 pm »

Terro, I "nymphed" around a bit too and since you are not going to summon the dark nymph till later you should have build up some dark quants till then.
One more would make me feel more comfy though, you are right.

Rainingblood, why do you have the Quant-towers in there?

rainingblood

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Re: Nymphomania (anti-FG) + stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2630.msg21511#msg21511
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2010, 02:16:10 am »
Terro, I "nymphed" around a bit too and since you are not going to summon the dark nymph till later you should have build up some dark quants till then.
One more would make me feel more comfy though, you are right.

Rainingblood, why do you have the Quant-towers in there?
The main reason is because of the cost of playing quint. To ensure an immortal nymph I need at least 2 supernovas, by using quantum towers I can lower the chance of a bad draw. The other reasons are that they help to balance the supply of darkness, entropy, and water quanta, and also because it adds a little bit of spice to the deck, for when you want to pull out a random nymph.

And you're right, of course, you have most of the game to get enough darkness quanta when the purple nymph is on the board. 6 supernova's guarantee's at least 12 dark quanta as well. Another point is to leave the obsidian tower(s) in play for a few turns depending on the supply of dark quanta. Again, the opponent's creatures are not a threat, you can afford waiting till you're down to 10 cards before you start playing liquid shadows.

rainingblood

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Re: Nymphomania (anti-FG) + stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2630.msg21515#msg21515
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2010, 02:23:27 am »
nice and probably fun to play, but is quite worse than standard rainbow
Worse over all I'd be ready to agree, but then rainbow wastes a lot of time on unpredictable games, while this deck can beat 8 God's nearly 100% of the time. The point shouldn't be the overall score, but the total time invested. You simply don't fight the God's listed as impossible, focusing instead on those 8-9 that are nearly guaranteed. So in terms of real time, you actually win more games and cards faster this way (you also get more coin from the elemental masteries).

zhen_rogue

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Re: Nymphomania (anti-FG) + stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2630.msg21529#msg21529
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2010, 03:11:06 am »
Worse over all I'd be ready to agree, but then rainbow wastes a lot of time on unpredictable games, while this deck can beat 8 God's nearly 100% of the time. The point shouldn't be the overall score, but the total time invested. You simply don't fight the God's listed as impossible, focusing instead on those 8-9 that are nearly guaranteed. So in terms of real time, you actually win more games and cards faster this way (you also get more coin from the elemental masteries).
I agree with this assessment.
If there was a deck that could beat 6+ gods almost 100% of the time, I think it's a winner.
I have no qualms about sacrificing some score points to earn enough cashola to fund new decks and card improvements as they become available.
I think this deck has promise, and am anxious to see a few more ideas and results about fine-tuning it.

Offline Baily18

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Re: Nymphomania (anti-FG) + stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2630.msg21715#msg21715
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2010, 04:45:39 pm »
This deck can still win against  Morte and Miracle unupgraded(not sure about the rest, havent tried it yet), though its harder to get mastery due to slower setup. This deck is a nice and cheaper alternative then other Rainbow decks.

Offline lokiburn4

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Re: Nymphomania (anti-FG) + stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2630.msg21836#msg21836
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2010, 08:26:05 pm »
At that point you simply use liquid shadow on the most damaging creatures, inverting their damage onto the enemy.
im confused about liquid shadow... you turn whom into vampires? and how does it damage the enemy? Sorry... usually I'm pretty quick, but I don't know what your talking about, lol.

oh, reverse, reverse. i get it. clever.

zhen_rogue

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Re: Nymphomania (anti-FG) + stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2630.msg21888#msg21888
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2010, 09:44:12 pm »
At that point you simply use liquid shadow on the most damaging creatures, inverting their damage onto the enemy.
im confused about liquid shadow... you turn whom into vampires? and how does it damage the enemy? Sorry... usually I'm pretty quick, but I don't know what your talking about, lol.

oh, reverse, reverse. i get it. clever.
Ok, now I feel like the dumb one here.

Someone check my math:

Simple hypothetical situation:
-FG has a 5/5 varmint (end result = player loses 5 life/turn, FG life remains unchanged)
-Player uses Antimatter on 5/5 varmint, making it -5/5 (end result = player gains 5 life/turn, FG life remains unchanged)
-Player uses Liquid Shadow on -5/5 antimatter varmint (end result = player gains 5 life/turn, FG loses 5 life/turn)

Is this correct?

OR does the application of Liquid Shadow actually result in:
player gains 10 life/turn (5 for the original antimatter + 5 for the vampire "heal") and FG loses 5 life/turn (5 for the vampire "damage")

OR is it the other way around, in that:
player gains 5 life/turn (5 for the antimatter) and FG loses 10 life/turn (5 for the vampire "damage" + 5 for the reversed vampire "heal")

My head hurts.
 

Delreich

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Re: Nymphomania (anti-FG) + stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2630.msg21894#msg21894
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2010, 09:53:55 pm »
Simple hypothetical situation:
-FG has a 5/5 varmint (end result = player loses 5 life/turn, FG life remains unchanged)
-Player uses Antimatter on 5/5 varmint, making it -5/5 (end result = player gains 5 life/turn, FG life remains unchanged)
-Player uses Liquid Shadow on -5/5 antimatter varmint (end result = player gains 5 life/turn, FG loses 5 life/turn)

Is this correct?
Pretty sure that's it.

Memoria

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Re: Nymphomania (anti-FG) + stats https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2630.msg21909#msg21909
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2010, 10:06:37 pm »
Simple hypothetical situation:
-FG has a 5/5 varmint (end result = player loses 5 life/turn, FG life remains unchanged)
-Player uses Antimatter on 5/5 varmint, making it -5/5 (end result = player gains 5 life/turn, FG life remains unchanged)
-Player uses Liquid Shadow on -5/5 antimatter varmint (end result = player gains 5 life/turn, FG loses 5 life/turn)
This one. Adding vampire to an enemy creature doesn't heal you, it only EVER affects the enemy. Whether it affects them by giving them health (+ health) or draining it (+ a negative number, which is subtracting) depends on you.

Rainingblood, thank you so much for this deck. I sold off my big clunky Scaredgirl rainbow deck once it started getting trounced (between some AI changes and new gods, although it was a great deck before) and tried yours. It's pretty good, although after playing a bunch of matches with it I'd like to note a few things.

-With only two obsidian towers you're really pushing your luck if you hope to have enough darkness quantum to vampire enough opponent creatures and deal enough damage by the end of the match. I've tried dropping one Nymph's Tears (you really only need two and then they're more or less wasted rounds when you keep drawing them later, it's worth the risk of not drawing one right away) and adding a third tower, which seems to have cleaned up the problem a bit.

-Miracle is not easy at ALL unless you're very lucky and avoid the firefly queen spam. Or if you manage to get a dark nymph out in time to change the queen's skill to "vampire" so they can't spawn. Otherwise I get trounced pretty regularly, and he does still use the Miracle card at times.

-Paradox is also pretty awful, "hard to control" doesn't begin to cover the frustration of having to spend four entropy quantums a pop for little 1/1 or 2/2 monsters that swarm the board.  ;)  I've managed to win a few times, but I'd say this one is at least medium. I just can't heal/reverse enough damage using all those little beasts, if Paradox was better about duplicating buffed critters on a regular basis it would be easier to keep up.

-I feel like it's possible to get good mileage out of a weapon card with this deck, if I had a time weapon I'd give that a go. Compared to the old giant rainbow deck this one feels very unforgiving, sometimes there just aren't enough rounds in the game to wear a 200 hit point opponent down with its own monsters. Being able to drop a late-game Nymph's Tears that I don't plan to use otherwise on a water pillar and just keep reversing the critter back to my deck to buy some time would be a godsend. An Eagle Eye might be nice too, to help wear down those pesky firefly queens or Paradox's tiny opponent spam. Basically there are a lot of elements you end up with loads of quantum for with this deck that don't get used, so weapons with pricey secondary abilities aren't a real drain anymore. Pulverizer might make Ferox and Firefly Queen beatable.

Even with those quibbles I've still made a tidy profit. Awesome job. :)

 

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