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Offline Ekki

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My RoL/Hope (mostly) unupped https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14533.msg184576#msg184576
« on: October 25, 2010, 08:17:31 pm »
I was remembering when I started and I wished I could farm FG's... Then I remembered the first anti-FG deck I had: RoL/Hope  :D
I actually made a short version of it, and I managed to upgrade a couple of fractals, but this one is a bit more refined, so, here it goes:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5la 5la 5lk 5lk 5lk 5lk 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61u 61u 61u 622 622 622 622 622 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 8pu

This deck deserves a place in the semi-unupped FG decks board. It's cheap, easy to use and fast. User-friendly for short. I even find myself explaining to lots of new players how to make variations of this deck to start grinding.

1- RoL's -duh-
2- Lobotomizer/SoG's. You can make the deck without the SoG's, but it's better with 3 of them, and Lobo is a must against some gods, so 1/2 of the effect's cost is awesome (the jump from  :aether :aether to  :aether is a lot)
3- Fractals/Pillars-Pends. The -1 cost of Fractal is pretty much the same as the +1 quantum generation...
4- Dragons/Archangels. Dragons are end-game hitters, and they're nearly the same against most gods, since playing them means you already have the match controlled, and their upped cost isn't that attractive anyways. Having them upped or unupped is up to you, I personally think upped dragons are better. You can exchange the Dragons for Archangels (upped Guardian Angels) if you want, some people like them most, and they can heal themselves.
5- Hope Just don't upgrade it. +1 defence is meh when you have ~14 RoL's up, and the +1 cost can hurt you since mostly you reach exactly 7 :light when you play it, and you could die because of that. Even though that, you can upgrade it, but I don't recommend it.

I taken the God-by-God breakdown from this thread: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,6546.108.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,6546.108.html). Whenever I find some time to do it, I'll add the new gods breakdown.
GOOD/EASY

Lionheart
Wins: 18, Losses: 6 (stats for the new FG's from fully upped deck here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25609.msg349339#msg349339). as such, they are only approximate)
Lionheart only has a few ways he can win against you.
-No Lobo drawn leading into a Scarab army from Pharaoh.
-Too much Rewinding preventing you from getting set up or doing enough damage.
-Early rush. Pretty unlikely as his damage is slow.
The most common way to lose is the second. To prevent this, don't start doing serious damage until you have 2 Fractals in hand and Hope/Lobo is set up so you don't take any damage. AI won't start spamming Rewind until it has lost about half its HP, so you need to be prepared to burst the final turns. Lobo all the Crusaders and animated Eternities you can to reduce his damage-reducing capabilities.

Serket
Wins: 20, Losses: 10
Serket is a no-brainer. She has no control whatsoever, so whether you win or not will be entirely up to early draws. If you get set up quickly, you win.
-Try to take as little physical damage as possible to have more HP against the poison. 8 Hope counter will block all her potential damage.
-Fractal a good balance of Rays and Dragons since you need a lot of quanta to do fast damage before you succumb to any potential poison.

Divine Glory
Won : 5, Lost : 0
His strongest creature attacks for 8 damage only, so even one fractal can often be enough to stop him. Due to his miracles, you need to play a large number of dragons in one turn though, otherwise you risk decking out.

Destiny
Won : 6, Lost : 1
Fractaling rays endlessly until you have 23 of them is enough to win because he has no shields. Lobotomizing eggs and druids is often useful if you can do so, but isn't always necessary.
If you don't have all the important cards in hand (enough fractals, hope, ray, etc), do not play a dragon. It will be hit by rewind, preventing you from drawing the card you are waiting for. In general prefer a large number of rays to dragons, and only play dragons if you have nothing else left to do. He might get a large creature out every once in a while through mutation, or chaos powers, so a hope with 23 rays is the safest bet.

Incarnate
Won 9, Quick loss : 2, Slow loss : 1 (no lobo, too many viruses)
Electrocutor is your friend here, as his viruses are trouble. Still winnable without one, because his creatures don't attack for more than 6, so holding back your rays in case of a virus is often enough to handle the situation. Rays are enough for damage without dragons as he only has bone walls.

Paradox
Won : 4, Quick loss : 1
Another one where Electrocutor is important, but not absolutely necessary.
While Electrocutor is not such high priority than at other gods, without one, blessed creatures can get excessively large, and then be cloned. Lobotomizing his rays denies his light quanta because he has no light towers at all, so doing so can prevent blessings, miracles, and sometimes even mirror shield. The blessings are the important here, if he can play those uncontrolled, you can easily find yourself facing 4-5 25/25 ray of lights or deja vus.
Overall, with Elec, your victory is 100% once you have your hope out with enough rays, without one, you'll probably lose a game or two out of every 5-6 you play.

Fire Queen
Won : 8, Quick loss : 2
As long as you can lobo her Queens and prevent token generation, she has no fire quanta, and her Ferals don't heal for much. Winning is very easy in this case.
Without lobo, it is quite risky however, with a full 23 creatures, she can heal for way too much, and can kill you with fire lances too. Quitting is recommended if she has 2 or more queens out before you get your first lobotomizer.
She has Eagle Eyes so keep at least one ray in hard until your first fractal.

Elidnis
Won : 6, Lost : 0
Growing creatures, and lobotomizing creatures here, so you need to get rid of those abilities in time. If you do, it isn't too difficult to win. Having both dragons in the last 5-10 cards can be trouble though, as he has some feral bonds, otherwise no problem.
Without a lobotomizer, pay atention to his quanta supply. His deck is short on towers, so you might be able to pull of a victory. If he does have multiple forest spirits and/or ultharids out before you have your elec, and he also has the quanta to use their abilities every turn, quit.

Osiris
Won : 2, Skipped : 1
You need your Electrocutor asap here. If he already has over one creature with an ability by the time you play your elec, you might as well give up because those pharaohs will generate more scarabs, and then he plays more pharaohs too. Basically, you need to play one at at turn 2-3 at latest. Once you did, however, you'll most likely win the game.

Dream Catcher
Won : 9, Quick loss : 2, Skipped : 2
This is probably the most luck based one. If he can drain more quanta than you produce, has a discord, or destroys all you towers with a quicksand, quitting is recommended.
Otherwise, fractaling rays for primary damage, using electrocutor on nymps if he plays and, and fractaled dragons if you have a large amount of excess quanta is the strategy.
While he could potentially devastate you by destroying all your pillars using butterfly effect, and antimattering all your creatures using the nymph, he strangely doesn't do it. He always uses the nymph ability on dragons, so don't play dragons unless you can kill him even if he antimatters a dragon each turn, or if you can lobotomize the nymph when it comes out. Avoid playing only a few dragons if you can't handle a nymph at all costs.

PLAYABLE

Jezebel
Wins: 10, Losses: 15
As with most decks, your chances against Jezzie depends on her luck rather than yours. Her setup is thankfully slow on average, so even if yours is slow as well, you have a chance. However, your winrate will be lower than this since the stats are from the fully upped deck.
-Don't play a Ray unless you have another or can Fractal it right away, as she may very well Siphon it to death.
-Try to get your damage out ASAP, as those Siphons only become more and more dangerous, and her Permafrost will reduce your damage a lot.
-For the same reason, you need to get your defences up so as not to lose too much HP against her physical damage.

Miracle
Won : 3, Quick Loss : 3, Slow Loss : 2.
He can play huge dragons quite early, and even bless them. Handling a 18/18 monster on turn four is often a problem and outright impossible with a suboptimal hand. Same can happen if he has a blessed pegasus that does 20+ damage per turn with dive.
I've expected a much better win rate than what I got against him this time, so this god is on my "Watch list". If this bad result remains consistent, this god might get moved to the SKIP section, although I doubt it will, I think I just had bad luck with him today.

Seism
Won : 2, Quick Loss : 3
Play all your rays ASAP, he has no creature control only rewinds. Too many early shriekers can kill you fast, but if you manage to get at least 10+ rays out, you are safe and victory is guaranteed. Best to play exactly 13 rays because his largest creature is the time dragon with 13 atk. These games are unfortunately somewhat slow, but you can't lose them if you survive the early game. However, losing in the early game does happen often, so be ready.

Chaos Lord
Won : 4, Quick Loss : 2, Slow Loss : 2
Early discord, or powerful mutated creatures can kill you.
If neither of those happen, you can still lose to stuff like Dissipation shield, or stolen lobotomizer if you can't get enough dragons into play quickly.
Give up if a discord comes out before your shield and he has some strong creatures out.
If both dragons are down in the last 5-10 cards, you are also in big trouble.
Mutated creatures can also be a problem if your don't have an elec, and if it gets stolen, that is also a big trouble in itself because it will be used against you, and if you can't lobo the druids, your dragons will get mutated.
If you want to improve electrum/time ratio even further, skipping him might be a good idea.

Rainbow
Won : 4, Quick loss : 1, Slow loss : 1
He can and will kill a lot of rays, so this is where you have to fractal them at least 3, sometimes even 4 times. He also has miracles, so a well timed fractaled dragon is also necessary. These games are long, and mistakes usually cost you the game, but once you learn how to do it, there is a good chance to win.
This game is a bit more luck based than the rest, and you need to pay 100% attention, and sometimes use a calculator if you are unsure about your damage. If you let him play a miracle, your chance to win is greatly reduced, so the game is decided mainly on your timing of playing dragons, and the amount of quanta you have for them.

SKIP
(Note : you CAN beat these, but the chance isn't very good, and most of the losses happen in long games, wasting your time. Stay away from these gods at all costs if you are playing my deck! You might want to play them using other variations, but not with mine.)

Hecate
Wins: 8, Losses: 20
Hecate's combination of unavoidable damage and defence through Dusk will usually bring you down, either fast or slow. Not worth spending the time on unless you get a really rushy start.

Akebono
Wins: 2, Losses: 23
You will only win this if you pull early Lobo to remove all Overdrives and Akebono doesn't pull the damage he usually does. Eventually he will be able to one-turn kill you with just the amount of Massive Dragons he's played and a Chimera. Titan also chips you down, and Tower Shield reduces your damage a lot. It's safe to play Rays early, as he won't Overdrive them.

Decay
Won : 0 this time, but I have beaten him 2-3 times in unrecorded games. Quick Loss : 2 (by quitting when having no quanta left), Slow Loss : 2, Skipped : 4.
Even if you are fast enough to bypass his quanta denial lock, and make him play fractals on your rays instead of his pests, syphon life will kill some of your not-that many dragons, dusk will slow them down even more, and he'll gain life from those syphons too. Even worse, he might direct them at you and just kill your outright. Chance to win seems too low for the amount of time invested, but the good chance of winning cards, that are also all useful (pest,syphon life, steal, fractal, electrocutor, all good cards) might make this worth a try if you have a very good start. Don't hesitate to quit if you are low on life, or he has a lot of quanta, and you are slow at doing damage, because he will finish you off with syphon life. Don't even think about staring unless you have a perfect staring hand.

Obliterator
Won : 1, Slow Loss : 2, Skipped : 3
Too many creatures with momentum here, and his pulverizer can destroy your only way of removing that momentum ability. Not worth the time, the chance of victory is very minimal. Only possible if he has no pulverizer, you have elec, and a great starting hand.

Gemini
Always Skipped
He can chain a large number of phase shields, so not only will you waste your time, you might deck out and not win anything at the end.
Add the fact that he can momentum his creatures, and even clone them, and that he can lobotomize your rays, so by the time his shields run out, you are also dead (or have no space left for dragons to do damage), this is probably the most time-wasting god to play.
Your victory mainly depends on the number of phase shields he draws.

Morte
Always Skipped.
While holding back your rays can bypass his plagues, without shards, his poison, and excess damage from ivory dragons (you can't play all the rays due to plagues) can easily kill you. Deck variants with more shards can get better win rates here, but without shards this one is an auto-skip.

Dark Matter
Always Skipped
Without an early electrocutor, you have no chance here, but even if you do have one, he can play too many 7 atk creatures before you get your shield out. He also has a lot of momentum, and blessings, so some damage can go through your shield, and kill you before you win.
Winning against him is possible, but way too rare to count on it. Chance is slightly better with shards, but not by much.

Eternal Phoenix
Always Skipped
You are guaranteed to die after a firestorm because of his ruby dragons, and he also has tons of explosions to destroy your pillars, slowing you down.
While not impossible, you'll only win if he has a slow start and never draws a firestorm in the mid- to endgame.

Neptune
Always Skipped
With only 7 slots, that are needed for your rays, and dragons dying after attacking once, adding the fact that most of those 7 rays will be frozen, you just can't put out enough damage in time, especially through a permafrost shield. Decking out is far too likely to bother playing here.

Hermes
Always Skipped
Firestorms can kill your rays, he has direct damage to kill you even if you have your shield up, and his growing creatures will eventually hit through anyway. Don't even bother.He can even blow up your pillars, too.

Graviton
Always Skipped
Momentum, Otyughs eating your rays, growing creatures, and to top it off, firestorm and explosions that destroy your electrocutor. Oh, and even more momentum, including Titans, which you can't lobotomize.

Scorpio
Always Skipped
There is too much poison here for only one shard. 4+ shard variants can have a reasonable win rate here, this one however can't even hope to win.

Ferox
Won : 2, Quick Loss : 1, Slow Loss : 2, Skipped : 1
All of his cards are creatures, and feral bonds. Even if you get the optimal draw, he is likely to outheal your damage. Early rush can also kill you if you aren't fast enough, but healing is the major problem. If you fractal too many rays, you won't have enough slots left for dragons, and if you don't, it takes too long to play those dragons. If you stop at exactly 12-13 rays, you might have a fair chance of victory with a quick start, but it's up to pure luck, so this is better to skip. Playing these games will reduce your time spent on winning games/total time spent ratio by a lot, so it is not recommended.

Octane
Always Skipped
Half of his deck are unstable gases. Those kill all your rays while also bypass your shield and do damage to you. This one is impossible. No, really impossible. Unless he draws 0 towers, no Fire Shield, and stays that way for the 15 turns necessary to kill him...

It's not the first one, there must be lots more, but it's my version though  :D
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 12:32:19 am by willng3 »

Celidion

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Re: My RoL/Hope unupped https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14533.msg184605#msg184605
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2010, 08:56:01 pm »
Seism does have creature control, in the form of Rewind.

Offline Ekki

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Re: My RoL/Hope unupped https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14533.msg184608#msg184608
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2010, 09:04:33 pm »
Seism does have creature control, in the form of Rewind.
yeah, well, it's not my thread, but I'll fix it :D
thx

Offline BC

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Re: My RoL/Hope unupped https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14533.msg184876#msg184876
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2010, 01:47:51 am »
Doesn't matter much against anything but seism, but you probably want to go half pillar half pendulums. I personally prefer 3 lobos, but that may get in the way of fractal in unupped. That one I'm not so sure about.

Other than that, looks pretty good, although I saw some people running a miracle in unupped.  :)

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Re: My RoL/Hope unupped https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14533.msg184996#msg184996
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2010, 04:42:44 am »
i run an unupped one when im not grinding ai3. i run +1miracle, +1fract, +1morning glory. if you have any sog's those help
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Re: My RoL/Hope unupped https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14533.msg185186#msg185186
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2010, 01:44:43 pm »
you should rename it in "half upped" or "starter Rol/hope" or  something.

beacause it is partially upgraded: your Rols


Offline Ekki

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Re: My RoL/Hope unupped https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14533.msg185296#msg185296
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2010, 05:08:52 pm »
you should rename it in "half upped" or "starter Rol/hope" or  something.

beacause it is partially upgraded: your Rols


Well, actually an unupped FG deck doesn't exist, as Scaredgirl said, but I guess I'll change the name

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Re: My RoL/Hope (mostly) unupped https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14533.msg223584#msg223584
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2010, 08:51:18 am »
Hey! I noticed there wasn't a deck like this in the unupped deck list, so I was gonna make one, but here it is! Since a lot of people ask for this version, I'd really like it added to the list. So, I have some thoughts on modifications.
Okay, so since it has a -lot- of pillars, you can easily get another Lobotomizer, as is advised in all RoL/Hope decks. While many pillars is always good, it -is- possible to have too many. I feel that getting 3 Lobos, 4 Hopes, 3 Dragons and split the pillar/pendulum ratio would speed both the defense, offense and utility power of this deck.

4 Hopes are good to get them out earlier, because the deck doesn't have SoG's to survive. 3 Lobos is the most important change, because it helps against basically all FG's, especially when you draw them consistently in time against Osiris, Fire Queen, Paradox and Morte. 3 Dragons is very optional, as I simply prefer to ensure I won't go through the entire match without drawing a Dragon and thus die because of too slow offense. The only reason I can do that in the unupped version is because it has no SoG's and thus room for it. It can, of course, also clog the hand, but I feel that's a smaller problem.

You can do well with just 3 Hopes too, of course. I run that in my upped RoL/Hope, and you clearly do fine with it. So, the only essential changes are +1 Lobo, -1 Pillar and split pillars/pendulums. That's what my testing and experience shows would improve it, but feel free to ignore it. It's only opinion. ^_^
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Offline Ekki

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Re: My RoL/Hope (mostly) unupped https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14533.msg224044#msg224044
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2010, 10:34:56 pm »
I agree with you in the pend/pillar thing, and also in the lobo (IDK why I put only 2 of them here)... I was personally using a 32 card deck with 4 hope and 3 lobos  when I started grinding FG's now that I remember :D
So I'll fix that ;)

BTW, IDK why this deck hasn't been posted in the unupped FG decks section, since it's awesomely useful :(

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Re: My RoL/Hope (mostly) unupped https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14533.msg224910#msg224910
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2010, 12:23:46 am »
Oh, I've never used more than 30 cards, but no matter. It works either way. :>
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Offline Ekki

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Re: My RoL/Hope (mostly) unupped https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14533.msg225096#msg225096
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2010, 04:48:15 am »
Against FG's, deckout is common, so a bit more than 30 cards won't hurt (that's why I made it that way :D)

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Re: My RoL/Hope (mostly) unupped https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14533.msg228405#msg228405
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2010, 05:27:40 pm »
thanks for the deck. i got it yesterday when i sold my rainbow. i won so many matches and added 2 miracles and upgraded cards 1 by 1 to try and get it fully upped. this is where it currently stands
Code: [Select]
5lk 5lk 5lk 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 622 622 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jq 7jq 7jq 7k2 7k2 80e 80e 80e 80i 80i 80iedit i updated with recent upgrades

 

anything
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