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Offline Essence

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Re: The oracle: Your fortune and your nymph. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2288.msg19964#msg19964
« Reply #60 on: January 26, 2010, 12:09:48 am »
Actually, seeing as the Nymphs aren't winnable in the slots, I can see a quest for a single Nymph, much like the Weapon quest.
If something happens and you think it deserves my attention, feel free to PM me. Other than that, I'm probably here if you want to shoot the breeze.

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Re: The oracle: Your fortune and your nymph. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2288.msg20182#msg20182
« Reply #61 on: January 26, 2010, 04:29:27 pm »
hi guys, i'm new to this, and i think the oracle idea is fine...it would add some new flavours to elements, instead of just card-gaming. The slot-spinning idea for getting nymphs are fine too

hellkaiser

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Re: The oracle: Your fortune and your nymph. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2288.msg20535#msg20535
« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2010, 05:15:53 pm »
while i think the idea is........quaint

really what's the whole point in making even more hard to get cards?

right now the ratio of rare to buyable is fine (except for SOG's) but then you introduce nymphs which are imho underpowered overcosted and just not anywhere near as fantastic as they're made out to be

yet once again i see lot's of people jumping on the idea that they should remain one of those type of cards

let's look at where they excel just from the first sight

they're mid to high cost and they have an effect which is a reusable form of one of the latest set of cards effects

ok this makes them good in the respect that in a mono deck they could all use one of their corresponding nymphs and mono decks are just not viable for anything like a FG or whatnot and indeed duo and tro element decks too could use them as opposed to the bland vanilla beatstick monsters with no effect

but instead of just adding these "meh" cards you're instead thinking of making them pure chance to get a random one? lol

the oracle idea i love but all this "zomg a rarezorz card lol!!!!11!!!" stuff is kinda annoying the nymphs are interesting and all but i'm not bothered spending a very long time getting any of them and let's face it if they are indeed winnable in slots from oh....... dark matter then the chances of me actually winning one as a quantum/rainbow player is something like ohhhhhh 1% say?

really quantum players are getting it in the ass left right and center and of course now the new cards are "rarezorz" and so again interesting ideas are stifled

how about we just work on plugging up some of the holes in elemental strategies with nice new standard common additions BEFORE we start implementing stupidly hard to get cards which only really help the already needed elemental strategies

Offline Kamietsu

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Re: The oracle: Your fortune and your nymph. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2288.msg20552#msg20552
« Reply #63 on: January 27, 2010, 05:58:30 pm »
while i think the idea is........quaint

really what's the whole point in making even more hard to get cards?

right now the ratio of rare to buyable is fine (except for SOG's) but then you introduce nymphs which are imho underpowered overcosted and just not anywhere near as fantastic as they're made out to be

yet once again i see lot's of people jumping on the idea that they should remain one of those type of cards

let's look at where they excel just from the first sight

they're mid to high cost and they have an effect which is a reusable form of one of the latest set of cards effects

ok this makes them good in the respect that in a mono deck they could all use one of their corresponding nymphs and mono decks are just not viable for anything like a FG or whatnot and indeed duo and tro element decks too could use them as opposed to the bland vanilla beatstick monsters with no effect

but instead of just adding these "meh" cards you're instead thinking of making them pure chance to get a random one? lol

the oracle idea i love but all this "zomg a rarezorz card lol!!!!11!!!" stuff is kinda annoying the nymphs are interesting and all but i'm not bothered spending a very long time getting any of them and let's face it if they are indeed winnable in slots from oh....... dark matter then the chances of me actually winning one as a quantum/rainbow player is something like ohhhhhh 1% say?

really quantum players are getting it in the ass left right and center and of course now the new cards are "rarezorz" and so again interesting ideas are stifled

how about we just work on plugging up some of the holes in elemental strategies with nice new standard common additions BEFORE we start implementing stupidly hard to get cards which only really help the already needed elemental strategies
While I respect your opinion I would also appreciate it if you were to type that it is your opinion. Not as if everything you say is cold hard fact. Saying the Nymph cards are just "meh" is personal opinion and I disagree with you strongly. Having, and using, a Nymph card does give your deck some extra strength. It's abilities are based off the new Alchemy card set, each card which you can only have a maximum of 6 in you deck. With the Nymphs, it breaks those limits by giving you a way to constantly use an Alchemy effect for a low cost, when compared to the actual alchemy card. I would much rather pay 8 for Nymph's tears, or 9 for the Purple Nymph to be able to use Antimatter which only costs 4 to use from the Nymph. In the long run I will have a more cost efficient way. Running 6 antimatters can get costly fast.

So having such a possibly powerful card, depending on how you use it and your own personal skill to use it well, not be a rare could change the gameplay too much too suddenly, and not for the best right away. Introducing the Nymphs as stand alone cards into the game helps ease change into the game. Maybe one day in the future the Nymphs will become common cards in the bazaar simply because they are not as powerful anymore compared to a bunch of new cards that could come out, the same way Artic Squid I believe is becoming a common card buyable in the bazaar.

Also, you seem to not be thinking about the future of Elements the Game at all. While yes, many mono decks cannot really stand up to the FGs yet, the addition to Nymph can help change that some, while also opening up new possibilities for future cards to be able to up the power needed in a mono deck. For all we know, this time next year, a mono deck could rule supreme over most other decks.

The odds of winning a Nymph are high. Many many many people will not have them very quickly at all, by the time someone has 6 of just one kind of Nymph, I suspect we will be getting some new cards. And if you want Nymphs and don't care to wait to gain it in the Oracle, use a Nymph's Tears. it will be a more costly way to do it but it works, especially makes a nice addition to any rainbow deck. Just splash one or two towers of the elements you want the nymph from.

The nymph cards do increase strategy, especially on those decks that rely on adrenalined creatures, or antimattering your opponents strong monsters.

Besides, it's not like Rainbow players need any extra help. They are plenty powerful enough as is, not to mention very popular. Stuff like black hole, and even precognition when used right can counter a rainbow pretty well. Rainbows don't ned help, they need better counters and the Nymphs add some to that.
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Ohmega

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Re: The oracle: Your fortune and your nymph. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2288.msg20553#msg20553
« Reply #64 on: January 27, 2010, 06:05:35 pm »
Why the nymphs aren't in the spins?
Becaus zanz don't wanted to meke them avaible for the grinder taht play 24/7 elements to get all cards, when other players don't have the time to do that. He wants to make it more fair.

Sigh

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Re: The oracle: Your fortune and your nymph. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2288.msg20682#msg20682
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2010, 10:00:39 pm »
Or he could be smart and just make it not avalable in the T50 and/or the PVP slots.

hellkaiser

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Re: The oracle: Your fortune and your nymph. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2288.msg20694#msg20694
« Reply #66 on: January 27, 2010, 10:46:32 pm »
while i think the idea is........quaint

really what's the whole point in making even more hard to get cards?

right now the ratio of rare to buyable is fine (except for SOG's) but then you introduce nymphs which are imho underpowered overcosted and just not anywhere near as fantastic as they're made out to be

yet once again i see lot's of people jumping on the idea that they should remain one of those type of cards

let's look at where they excel just from the first sight

they're mid to high cost and they have an effect which is a reusable form of one of the latest set of cards effects

ok this makes them good in the respect that in a mono deck they could all use one of their corresponding nymphs and mono decks are just not viable for anything like a FG or whatnot and indeed duo and tro element decks too could use them as opposed to the bland vanilla beatstick monsters with no effect

but instead of just adding these "meh" cards you're instead thinking of making them pure chance to get a random one? lol

the oracle idea i love but all this "zomg a rarezorz card lol!!!!11!!!" stuff is kinda annoying the nymphs are interesting and all but i'm not bothered spending a very long time getting any of them and let's face it if they are indeed winnable in slots from oh....... dark matter then the chances of me actually winning one as a quantum/rainbow player is something like ohhhhhh 1% say?

really quantum players are getting it in the ass left right and center and of course now the new cards are "rarezorz" and so again interesting ideas are stifled

how about we just work on plugging up some of the holes in elemental strategies with nice new standard common additions BEFORE we start implementing stupidly hard to get cards which only really help the already needed elemental strategies
While I respect your opinion I would also appreciate it if you were to type that it is your opinion. Not as if everything you say is cold hard fact. Saying the Nymph cards are just "meh" is personal opinion and I disagree with you strongly. Having, and using, a Nymph card does give your deck some extra strength. It's abilities are based off the new Alchemy card set, each card which you can only have a maximum of 6 in you deck. With the Nymphs, it breaks those limits by giving you a way to constantly use an Alchemy effect for a low cost, when compared to the actual alchemy card. I would much rather pay 8 for Nymph's tears, or 9 for the Purple Nymph to be able to use Antimatter which only costs 4 to use from the Nymph. In the long run I will have a more cost efficient way. Running 6 antimatters can get costly fast.

So having such a possibly powerful card, depending on how you use it and your own personal skill to use it well, not be a rare could change the gameplay too much too suddenly, and not for the best right away. Introducing the Nymphs as stand alone cards into the game helps ease change into the game. Maybe one day in the future the Nymphs will become common cards in the bazaar simply because they are not as powerful anymore compared to a bunch of new cards that could come out, the same way Artic Squid I believe is becoming a common card buyable in the bazaar.

Also, you seem to not be thinking about the future of Elements the Game at all. While yes, many mono decks cannot really stand up to the FGs yet, the addition to Nymph can help change that some, while also opening up new possibilities for future cards to be able to up the power needed in a mono deck. For all we know, this time next year, a mono deck could rule supreme over most other decks.

The odds of winning a Nymph are high. Many many many people will not have them very quickly at all, by the time someone has 6 of just one kind of Nymph, I suspect we will be getting some new cards. And if you want Nymphs and don't care to wait to gain it in the Oracle, use a Nymph's Tears. it will be a more costly way to do it but it works, especially makes a nice addition to any rainbow deck. Just splash one or two towers of the elements you want the nymph from.

The nymph cards do increase strategy, especially on those decks that rely on adrenalined creatures, or antimattering your opponents strong monsters.

Besides, it's not like Rainbow players need any extra help. They are plenty powerful enough as is, not to mention very popular. Stuff like black hole, and even precognition when used right can counter a rainbow pretty well. Rainbows don't ned help, they need better counters and the Nymphs add some to that.
no i've pretty much thought of all that i just guess i'm a little impatient XD i do apologise though to all for coming across like what i say is cold hard fact and yes it IS only just my opinions that i'm sharing so sorry if it came across as arrogant or whatnot i just guess i presume people would get that it's opinion and such

and yes i do realise that a reusable effect can be a lot better as well as gravity nymph being simply stunning against rainbow i mean we only have to look at dark matter to see that she's darned ridiculous vs the "meta deck"

to the point of rainbow not needing the help i would agree AND disagree at the same time.....

right now a lot of these changes have been anti rainbow and most FG decks seem to be more geared and prepared for them and i should know i've been playing nothing but rainbow for months and have been too lazy to farm for a new deck type XD

but again when there's only one reliable god killer deck it's gonna be used and when it get's nerfed in it's components or just the FG's are changed to combat the threat and that to me seems to be the case

instead of however nerfing rainbow and it's components i would have said i'd prefer it it was counterbalanced by strengthening the other elements with more feasable god combatting cards which are less likely to be abused in rainbow

cards such as antimatter are quite useful against a god i'll admit or aflatoxin but mostly i find them to be dead draws and such an not all that great so perhaps this was a step in the right direction

higher cost creatures of an element etc BUT

just how effective do you think a gravity nymph would be VS a FG

it's best case scenario would be rainbow an more than likely it would just end up as great healing but wouldn't stop the onslaught of shriekers imho

dark nymph(?) would be another example i mean it's like a mind flayer for dark and would be better in darkness themed decks but being of a high cost to get on the field would mean that flayer is better even if it's costs are of two elements

aether nymph........now this is one that i don't like really

three aether quant for the same effect that anubis gets?? not sure that i think much of this

and then there's the tears which i do like the idea of but it's cost puts me off although i do understand that it's to stop it being abused in rainbow and agree with the idea of it but why water??

maybe i'm just missing something but i'm just not crazy about it being water at all but hey just remember it's just my opinion and i do see the very good points you're making also and it's given me a few things to think about :)

Offline Kamietsu

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Re: The oracle: Your fortune and your nymph. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2288.msg20727#msg20727
« Reply #67 on: January 27, 2010, 11:31:09 pm »

no i've pretty much thought of all that i just guess i'm a little impatient XD i do apologise though to all for coming across like what i say is cold hard fact and yes it IS only just my opinions that i'm sharing so sorry if it came across as arrogant or whatnot i just guess i presume people would get that it's opinion and such

and yes i do realise that a reusable effect can be a lot better as well as gravity nymph being simply stunning against rainbow i mean we only have to look at dark matter to see that she's darned ridiculous vs the "meta deck"

to the point of rainbow not needing the help i would agree AND disagree at the same time.....

right now a lot of these changes have been anti rainbow and most FG decks seem to be more geared and prepared for them and i should know i've been playing nothing but rainbow for months and have been too lazy to farm for a new deck type XD

but again when there's only one reliable god killer deck it's gonna be used and when it get's nerfed in it's components or just the FG's are changed to combat the threat and that to me seems to be the case

instead of however nerfing rainbow and it's components i would have said i'd prefer it it was counterbalanced by strengthening the other elements with more feasable god combatting cards which are less likely to be abused in rainbow

cards such as antimatter are quite useful against a god i'll admit or aflatoxin but mostly i find them to be dead draws and such an not all that great so perhaps this was a step in the right direction

higher cost creatures of an element etc BUT

just how effective do you think a gravity nymph would be VS a FG

it's best case scenario would be rainbow an more than likely it would just end up as great healing but wouldn't stop the onslaught of shriekers imho

dark nymph(?) would be another example i mean it's like a mind flayer for dark and would be better in darkness themed decks but being of a high cost to get on the field would mean that flayer is better even if it's costs are of two elements

aether nymph........now this is one that i don't like really

three aether quant for the same effect that anubis gets?? not sure that i think much of this

and then there's the tears which i do like the idea of but it's cost puts me off although i do understand that it's to stop it being abused in rainbow and agree with the idea of it but why water??

maybe i'm just missing something but i'm just not crazy about it being water at all but hey just remember it's just my opinion and i do see the very good points you're making also and it's given me a few things to think about :)
Ok, I see better where you are coming from now. It did seem much like you were flat out attacking everything left and right with very little support. I agree with you on several points of this, as I too run a rainbow. But I enjoy being forced into a challenge. By adding these rainbow hindering cards to the mix, especially in the FGs, it forces people to pull away from the norm as the normal strategies begin to fall apart. But it's also nice. There is no insta-rainbow-kill card, though black hole is close, you can still make a come back from it. So right now everything else just got introduced with cards that help counteract rainbow a bit better, instead of geting something amazingly good that a rainbow cannot hope to beat. Do you see where I am coming from? Baby steps.

I definitely agree that one successful deck will get spammed a bunch of times by different players, but slowly beginning to give everything else more power, which slowly destroys rainbow decks, is one of the best ways to begin to get people to use their brains and come up with more, better deck ideas, instead of just copying a deck a thousand times and just changing a few cards.

And about Nymph's Tears. Why water you ask? Well all the other elements already got their new Alchemy and Water needed a power boost. It's like the White Nymph. Currently, there isn't much use for it, but in the future of gaming, when new cards come out, there will be more combo opportunities right away.

Now, to bring this whole thing back on topic, I seem to be getting more and more eager for the Oracle to come out. Not just for a chance to win a nymph, but who doesn't enjoy getting a free card once in awhile? :)
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Cisco

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Re: The oracle: Your fortune and your nymph. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2288.msg20749#msg20749
« Reply #68 on: January 27, 2010, 11:59:46 pm »
Both are deserving of some pos karma. well thought out from both sides. BTW havn´t heard much from Zanz pretty sure he is Working on this as top priorty imo. :)

Offline Kamietsu

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Re: The oracle: Your fortune and your nymph. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2288.msg20785#msg20785
« Reply #69 on: January 28, 2010, 12:33:30 am »
Both are deserving of some pos karma. well thought out from both sides. BTW havn´t heard much from Zanz pretty sure he is Working on this as top priorty imo. :)
I can only hope you are right :D
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hellkaiser

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Re: The oracle: Your fortune and your nymph. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2288.msg20862#msg20862
« Reply #70 on: January 28, 2010, 06:24:52 am »

no i've pretty much thought of all that i just guess i'm a little impatient XD i do apologise though to all for coming across like what i say is cold hard fact and yes it IS only just my opinions that i'm sharing so sorry if it came across as arrogant or whatnot i just guess i presume people would get that it's opinion and such

and yes i do realise that a reusable effect can be a lot better as well as gravity nymph being simply stunning against rainbow i mean we only have to look at dark matter to see that she's darned ridiculous vs the "meta deck"

to the point of rainbow not needing the help i would agree AND disagree at the same time.....

right now a lot of these changes have been anti rainbow and most FG decks seem to be more geared and prepared for them and i should know i've been playing nothing but rainbow for months and have been too lazy to farm for a new deck type XD

but again when there's only one reliable god killer deck it's gonna be used and when it get's nerfed in it's components or just the FG's are changed to combat the threat and that to me seems to be the case

instead of however nerfing rainbow and it's components i would have said i'd prefer it it was counterbalanced by strengthening the other elements with more feasable god combatting cards which are less likely to be abused in rainbow

cards such as antimatter are quite useful against a god i'll admit or aflatoxin but mostly i find them to be dead draws and such an not all that great so perhaps this was a step in the right direction

higher cost creatures of an element etc BUT

just how effective do you think a gravity nymph would be VS a FG

it's best case scenario would be rainbow an more than likely it would just end up as great healing but wouldn't stop the onslaught of shriekers imho

dark nymph(?) would be another example i mean it's like a mind flayer for dark and would be better in darkness themed decks but being of a high cost to get on the field would mean that flayer is better even if it's costs are of two elements

aether nymph........now this is one that i don't like really

three aether quant for the same effect that anubis gets?? not sure that i think much of this

and then there's the tears which i do like the idea of but it's cost puts me off although i do understand that it's to stop it being abused in rainbow and agree with the idea of it but why water??

maybe i'm just missing something but i'm just not crazy about it being water at all but hey just remember it's just my opinion and i do see the very good points you're making also and it's given me a few things to think about :)
Ok, I see better where you are coming from now. It did seem much like you were flat out attacking everything left and right with very little support. I agree with you on several points of this, as I too run a rainbow. But I enjoy being forced into a challenge. By adding these rainbow hindering cards to the mix, especially in the FGs, it forces people to pull away from the norm as the normal strategies begin to fall apart. But it's also nice. There is no insta-rainbow-kill card, though black hole is close, you can still make a come back from it. So right now everything else just got introduced with cards that help counteract rainbow a bit better, instead of geting something amazingly good that a rainbow cannot hope to beat. Do you see where I am coming from? Baby steps.

I definitely agree that one successful deck will get spammed a bunch of times by different players, but slowly beginning to give everything else more power, which slowly destroys rainbow decks, is one of the best ways to begin to get people to use their brains and come up with more, better deck ideas, instead of just copying a deck a thousand times and just changing a few cards.

And about Nymph's Tears. Why water you ask? Well all the other elements already got their new Alchemy and Water needed a power boost. It's like the White Nymph. Currently, there isn't much use for it, but in the future of gaming, when new cards come out, there will be more combo opportunities right away.

Now, to bring this whole thing back on topic, I seem to be getting more and more eager for the Oracle to come out. Not just for a chance to win a nymph, but who doesn't enjoy getting a free card once in awhile? :)
entirely my fault due to inherent laziness

however i would digress that quite possibly the biggest problem in ANY rainbow deck is A: a lack of creatures B: lack of a focused strategy C: quanta

there's pretty much nothing you can do against dark matter if you're a quantum player

he's gonna heal a lot and he's gonna get field presence usually within a turn or two

but the problem is NOT black hole i wouldn't be silly enough to suggest that

the problem is that as a FG he draws twice per turn and can ALWAYS play one after another incredibly early on leaving you literally with nothing to use

i don't mind if a FG rushes me i can handle that as i do after all have 100 lp but constantly having no quanta to play my cards is in my honest opinion overkill considering that rainbow is the best contender for FG farming

but if you just look at it simply every card has a counter strategy or card

with perm destruction you have protect artifacts

with monster control you have quintessence

where's the counter card for quant drain?

devourers?

honestly i see very little in the way of countering a god that can spam out -6 to - -30+ quant in a single turn
there's nothing to protect our quant and the only thing that would come close is to rely on the already slightly unreliable supernovas and pray you draw lots of them early

this comes down to luck and NOT skill although deckbuilding comes into play

between him and rainbow i see them as the two gods that are just plain ridiculous sometimes however honestly i see dark matter as being FAR superior in being just anti rainbow control and thus having an incredible advantage over everything unless you load your deck with quant gaining monsters or play a duo element deck or just all 1 and 2 cost cards etc

in short he's just simply completely imbalanced in my opinion and i cannot understand why anyone would disagree

admire his well built and thought out strategy all you want but he to me is completely and utterly ridiculously imbalanced

funny thing is black hole isn't even all that and a bag o chips for a player to play unless dedicated to gravity

darkfrogger

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Re: The oracle: Your fortune and your nymph. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2288.msg21426#msg21426
« Reply #71 on: January 29, 2010, 10:10:27 pm »
A mid to end game blackhole can be cheap healing, if nothing else. An early game blackhole can be devastating vs a rainbow deck since you are denying them quantum and healing at the same time.

 

anything
blarg: