Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups

[Scaredgirl]

Acelink had a great idea of putting all the elements in a wheel that would show how different elements are related to each other.

I took out the old Photoshop and started putting all the elements in place, trying to make is so that it makes sense. Acelink helped in the process.

OPTION 1.


OPTION 2.

To resolve the "which element is opposed to which other element" discussion once and for all, please look at the picture on the left. It's taken from the trainer, and clearly shows the pairings how the game developer meant they should be. So the only question left is: how do you put these 6 pairings on the wheel so that the opposing elements stay intact? There is no easy answer to that question which is why it was very difficult to build the wheel so that it makes sense. Quick facts: - this is not official in any way and might be totally against how Zanz sees it - group names are random and subject to change - we could use this method in the War event instead of the "good" and "evil". Please keep in mind that nothing here is final. It's just a suggestion designed to spark discussion. So yeah.. discuss.

Here are some suggestions that came up during discussions:

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,4126.msg47309#msg47309
(http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4126.0;attach=1054;image)
By Sastrugi

[acelink]

I really like how the groups/elements are set up...

Creation opposes Decay
Order opposes Chaos

And even if we were to break the current groups, they could be reorganized into others...
Control: Earth, Gravity, Time
Growth: Water, Life, Light
Chaos: Air, Aether, Entropy
Destruction: Fire, Death, Darkness
Which also has opposing groups.

(i wouldn't use wheel to find complementary elements, just akin and opposing)

BTW: Thanks for some credit!

[omerbey]

I always thought gravity vs. aether and entropy vs. time.
binding versus fickle, chaotic versus precise

I think such a wheel is necessary, and friend groups would be awesome. In fact I clicked to general discussion part to suggest this myself.
what can I say, great minds think alike

[jmizzle7]

I always thought gravity vs. aether and entropy vs. time.
binding versus fickle, chaotic versus precise

I think such a wheel is necessary, and friend groups would be awesome. In fact I clicked to general discussion part to suggest this myself.
what can I say, great minds think alike

Entropy and Gravity really have to be together. To put it simply, Gravity is about attraction and order, while Entropy is about dispersion and chaos. No other elements come close to being opposite of either of these.

[Chemist]

Water is order, aether is chaos and earth is decay? Well it's not like any such division would bother me if it's one way for one event and different for another. I don't see any good reason for these exact groupings to be made "permanent", though. Has balance been taken into account yet?

Oh and don't we already have a sort of a group division: (, , , ) (, , , ) (, , , ). I'm not sure know how these groups would be called, but they all make complete intuitive sense. These elements fit together, even if they are pairs of opposites. On the minus side three groups may mean more trouble planning events (not divisible by two) and this also doesn't take balance into consideration.

[rex87]

I really like how the groups/elements are set up...

Creation opposes Decay
Order opposes Chaos

And even if we were to break the current groups, they could be reorganized into others...
Control: Earth, Gravity, Time
Growth: Water, Life, Light
Chaos: Air, Aether, Entropy
Destruction: Fire, Death, Darkness
Which also has opposing groups.

(i wouldn't use wheel to find complementary elements, just akin and opposing)

BTW: Thanks for some credit!

I think these grops are better!!!

Destruction vs Growth
and Order vs Chaos

[pepokish]

Looks really nice, Scaredgirl!  (:

The only thing I personally dislike is that Aether is under "chaos" -- as Aether is a cyclical, unchangeable element, and (perhaps only in my mind) that seems to lend itself more toward order and structure.  Which leads me to believe that Aether and Entropy should be opposites.  However, I know that switching things around would be difficult, as that would leave gravity and time as opposites, and that just doesn't make sense to me.       

So, haha, all in all I'm quite fond of this idea, and I think it turned out very nicely.  I think you did a great job!

[acelink]

Looks really nice, Scaredgirl!  (:

The only thing I personally dislike is that Aether is under "chaos" -- as Aether is a cyclical, unchangeable element, and (perhaps only in my mind) that seems to lend itself more toward order and structure.  Which leads me to believe that Aether and Entropy should be opposites.  However, I know that switching things around would be difficult, as that would leave gravity and time as opposites, and that just doesn't make sense to me.       

So, haha, all in all I'm quite fond of this idea, and I think it turned out very nicely.  I think you did a great job!

It is generally thought of as stable because of Phase Dragons, Quintessences and Immortals.  But what about the other creatures and spells? Sparks for example have a VERY short life.  The same is true for Lightning. Parallel Universe is never the same.   And don't forget Phase shield even fades away.

[Scaredgirl]

Looks really nice, Scaredgirl!  (:

The only thing I personally dislike is that Aether is under "chaos" -- as Aether is a cyclical, unchangeable element, and (perhaps only in my mind) that seems to lend itself more toward order and structure.  Which leads me to believe that Aether and Entropy should be opposites.  However, I know that switching things around would be difficult, as that would leave gravity and time as opposites, and that just doesn't make sense to me.       

So, haha, all in all I'm quite fond of this idea, and I think it turned out very nicely.  I think you did a great job!

Thanks.

I updated the first post to explain the reasons behind opposing elements.

Yes, the names need to change. I like Growth and Decay, but I don't like Order and Chaos that much. Actually Order is pretty good I think but Chaos sucks because of Aether (like you said there). Any suggestions are welcome.

I don't like Destruction instead of Decay because I see Earth-Darkness-Death more like slowly rotting away then "destroying" anything. If one group would be called Destruction, it had to have Fire in it.

[pepokish]

It is generally thought of as stable because of Phase Dragons, Quintessences and Immortals.  But what about the other creatures and spells? Sparks for example have a VERY short life.  The same is true for Lightning. Parallel Universe is never the same.   And don't forget Phase shield even fades away.

Actually, I was talking about the actual element of Aether, not just how it's represented in the game.  The whole point of Aether is that is does not change, unlike the "original four" elements (fire, water, earth, air).  It is the element representing immortality and stability.

Aside from that, Parallel Universe actually is the same every time, unless you are PU-ing mutants -- and Phase shield only fades away because it would be insanely overpowered, otherwise.  But I suppose you do have a point with sparks and lightning.  (:  In any case, there's no changing the opposing elements, so there's no point discussing it, really.  I like the groups as they are, though perhaps Scaredgirl is right in suggesting that Chaos/order could use better names...

[doomeister]

yeah, I like this idea. My suggestion would be to put fire where earth is, put earth where water is, and put water where fire is. Then change the name of decay to destruction.

[Scaredgirl]

yeah, I like this idea. My suggestion would be to put fire where earth is, put earth where water is, and put water where fire is. Then change the name of decay to destruction.

That would kill the whole "opposing elements" system.