Ask the Idea Guru

[EmeraldTiger]

Consider me back. I would like to revisit the Blood mechanic where cost = player HP. What should be taken into consideration?

[OldTrees]

Consider me back. I would like to revisit the Blood mechanic where cost = player HP. What should be taken into consideration?

One starts with hp available to spend. This is similar to starting with cards to spend.
Hp is harder to replace than quanta. It is easier to replace than cards. (This does not speak of efficiency. Only magnitude. Efficiency would be set when the exchange ratio is set.)
The speed of hp costs does not change when upgraded. (Pillar Quanta gets a 1 turn boost)
Effects and costs usually should not be in the same currency. (Pillars cost cards to get quanta)
-Max Hp is probably less expensive than -Hp since Max Hp is rarely attacked. (Not relevant to -Hp costs)
Shard of Sacrifice has an Hp cost and acts similar to Dimensional Shield. (I'll let you do the comparision or find a more precise calculation)

That's all I can think of at this moment.

[Zaealix]

Something that came to mind: If you're doing a 'blood' series or element, something that could balance it, is 'blood pillars' that work by reducing the HP cost of any 'blood' element card by 1. I figure that to prohibit the use of this in rainbows, the HP costs would be rather significant. Ex: something like say, a Gnome Rider would cost maybe 5-7 HP, meaning that playing blood cards without blood pillars will suck you dry very quickly.
I'm curious what you have in mind Emerald...Something I like the idea of is that the 'blood' element is fairly powerful, to compensate for the sheer speed gained by casting from HP.

[OldTrees]

Something that came to mind: If you're doing a 'blood' series or element, something that could balance it, is 'blood pillars' that work by reducing the HP cost of any 'blood' element card by 1. I figure that to prohibit the use of this in rainbows, the HP costs would be rather significant. Ex: something like say, a Gnome Rider would cost maybe 5-7 HP, meaning that playing blood cards without blood pillars will suck you dry very quickly.
I'm curious what you have in mind Emerald...Something I like the idea of is that the 'blood' element is fairly powerful, to compensate for the sheer speed gained by casting from HP.

Blood will not be an Element (it will not have a quanta pool). It might be a Pseudoelement (a series with an elemental theme but no quanta pool). However it is likely to only be an alternate cost mechanic (cards using hp costs without an elemental theme).

Blood cards would probably be used by rainbow and elemental decks alike (See SoSac).

PS: I doubt Zanz knew about the community calling hp costs the blood alternate cost mechanic before(or after) creating SoSac.

[Zaealix]

Pseudoelement? Or perhaps something that could fit into various elements in it's own way?
Like, a  card, could have a Blood cost to grant a creature Vampirism, or a  spell/permanent might allow you to summon Creatures with HP replacing quanta.
There's even just basic 'you may lose X HP to summon this creature instead of paying it's quanta cost', or perhaps a 'lesser upkeep' which might read like this 'pay X quanta per turn, or lose X HP' These mechanics could be used to balance out weaker than normal creatures, or justify an abnormally powerful one.

[thispersonisagenius]

Fitting Blood creature/ability costs into the current 12 elements should be pretty easy. A notable example that is almost the exact same is the introduction of Phyrexian mana into Magic: the Gathering. The designers used a slightly different symbol, but still the same color. http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/686
That link shows an example from MtG, where the "Blood" mechanic is in effect on a black card.

In addition, as a kind of spin-off of this idea, I'm proposing a "Bloodthirsty" passive skill. Similar to vampire, this ability heals the creature whenever it deals damage. I suppose this would be better on high-HP, low attack darkness or death creatures.

[OldTrees]

Pseudoelement? Or perhaps something that could fit into various elements in it's own way?
Like, a  card, could have a Blood cost to grant a creature Vampirism, or a  spell/permanent might allow you to summon Creatures with HP replacing quanta.
There's even just basic 'you may lose X HP to summon this creature instead of paying it's quanta cost', or perhaps a 'lesser upkeep' which might read like this 'pay X quanta per turn, or lose X HP' These mechanics could be used to balance out weaker than normal creatures, or justify an abnormally powerful one.

Fitting Blood creature/ability costs into the current 12 elements should be pretty easy. A notable example that is almost the exact same is the introduction of Phyrexian mana into Magic: the Gathering. The designers used a slightly different symbol, but still the same color. http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/686
That link shows an example from MtG, where the "Blood" mechanic is in effect on a black card.

A Pseudoelement may or may not be spread across multiples elements/other. The same holds for an alternate cost mechanic or a pseudoquanta mechanic.

In addition, as a kind of spin-off of this idea, I'm proposing a "Bloodthirsty" passive skill. Similar to vampire, this ability heals the creature whenever it deals damage. I suppose this would be better on high-HP, low attack darkness or death creatures.

Creature healing is rarely useful. Last time self healing vampirism was suggested it was found to have too little utility.

[Zaealix]

Hrm...Something else I considered, was the idea of various ideas from the '13th element Contest.' being made into the 'select a class' idea, you select a '13' element, that alters your abilities...
Blood elements would have some amount of extra HP and the ability to use HP to replace quanta.
Void element, could perhaps attack the Max HP and quanta generation of the opponent...
I forget the rest, but it's just another addition to the ideas already in waiting...

[EmeraldTiger]

This is the 1st thing i thought of. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42676.0.html

[OldTrees]

Hrm...Something else I considered, was the idea of various ideas from the '13th element Contest.' being made into the 'select a class' idea, you select a '13' element, that alters your abilities...
Blood elements would have some amount of extra HP and the ability to use HP to replace quanta.
Void element, could perhaps attack the Max HP and quanta generation of the opponent...
I forget the rest, but it's just another addition to the ideas already in waiting...

Drop the word element. It has a specific meaning.

You select a "Discipline/Class/Style" that alters but does not replace your elemental's element.

[OdinVanguard]

There seem to be a fair number of cards using "HP" (player's hit points) as a cost mechanic instead of (or even in addition to) quanta. I've had a few ideas myself, but before fleshing them out, I wanted to get your opinion:

How do "HP" costs fit in with the current Cost Theory paradigm / schemes?
To be a bit more specific:

• How much is 1 HP worth.
• Should this value scale linearly?
• Should the scale be different for skill / ability costs than spell costs?
• Should HP costs be put in the "Cost" position next to quanta if both HP and Quanta costs are used or should the HP cost always be moved to the card text if a quanta cost is also needed?

[OldTrees]

There seem to be a fair number of cards using "HP" (player's hit points) as a cost mechanic instead of (or even in addition to) quanta. I've had a few ideas myself, but before fleshing them out, I wanted to get your opinion:

How do "HP" costs fit in with the current Cost Theory paradigm / schemes?
To be a bit more specific:

• How much is 1 HP worth.
• Should this value scale linearly?
• Should the scale be different for skill / ability costs than spell costs?
• Should HP costs be put in the "Cost" position next to quanta if both HP and Quanta costs are used or should the HP cost always be moved to the card text if a quanta cost is also needed?

Should it scale linearly? Nothing scales linearly. However some sections of the function can be approximated with simpler (possibly linear) functions.
At low quantities hp is much cheaper than the linear estimate (Games are rarely as close as 9hp despite being as close as 1 turn). At high quantities it becomes a forced combo with Miracle due to the cheaper price.

I have estimated 4hp per  but this is a preliminary estimate prior to extensive playtesting. If you think Dimensional Shield or SoSac is OP then increase the hp cost.

The scale should differ in the same way and magnitude that quanta scales differently. (Aka long way of saying no)

Hp costs should be moved to the text if a quanta cost is included. This applies for casting and activation costs.