Discuss about Aether

[godofdeath500]

Ok, I first want to say that if this does not belong here, please move/delete this. It seemed like the right place, although I am not suggesting anything.

As we all probably know, has been on the receiving end of a whole lot of nerfs, both direct and indirect. And while it has gotten a few new cards (silence/mind gate), it hasn't gotten any real use, except for quinting creatures, and Blight.

First the creatures.
Phase dragon is the highest cost-worst damage dragon at 14 for 10 damage. You can't argue with that fact, and I'm not forgetting it comes it play Immortal.
Immortal, same damage as Blight, for a higher cost. Very few decks use it, and most of them are mono.
Phase Spider, 7|2 for 4 . Good in speedbows, but not much else.
And finally, the Nymph. More expensive then Anubis, and with an ability that costs 3x as much. I think I'll stick with Anubis.

Next, a comment on the fractal nerf. The fractal nerf, while necessary, put a lot of decks into the unplayable category. It also made RoL/Hope a lot slower.

The only spells probably useful as of now are Twin Universe and thunderbolt, so I won't discuss them.

EDIT: Could a moderator please change the title to "Discussion about Aether".

[TheonlyrealBeef]

Uhm Fractal decks... unplayable? Could you name at least one that became unplayable? I've barely had any bother with my fractal decks from the nerf. In fact, it might even have to be nerfed more if it weren't for Mitosis coming up.

Aether isn't that bad, though I would agree upon Immortal and maybe Phase Dragons needing a buff. And of course, the nymph. Especially, get rid of Anubis, or change it somehow.

[SnoWeb]

Dragon: Sure, Phase dragon is not Ruby or Silurian but it gives aether part of its specificity. It's true that you will most likely play it in mono-(or heavy in aether)-decks but said decks are good (see here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,3154.0.html)). Note that it is also the case for Massive dragon but this one is not immortal and has only 8 atk ... Phase dragon is IMO fine as it is.

Recluse: recluse is an excellent mid-range creature. It is one of the better damage/cost ratio in game. Sure it's tricky to use it with fractal but it's possible (see here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14300.0.html)). If you prefer you can play it with TU (an excellent card) and Lightning (another very good one) to give fast and scary control decks (see here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5700.0.html)).

Nymph: Here, I totally agree with you. Turquoise nymph is useless. Anubis is a lot better for the same purpose. You could say that you might want to use it in mono-aether. Yes but in aether most creatures are already immortal ... so what ... so Buff it, yeah! (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10275.0.html). This is, IMO, the first change aether needs.

Fractal buff: I'm among those who believe that the nerf was deserved. I even think it was not a good enough nerf. The effect should have been nerfed not the cost.

New cards: As you said Aether received 2 new cards recently. Mingate is used (as a main or secondary card) in a lot of FG-decks. I believe it's a good one. Silence still needs to find it's place but it is not a bad one either.

In conclusion, please Zanz, buff turquoise Nymph...

[icecoldbro]

Dragon: Sure, Phase dragon is not Ruby or Silurian but it gives aether part of its specificity. It's true that you will most likely play it in mono-(or heavy in aether)-decks but said decks are good (see here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,3154.0.html)). Note that it is also the case for Massive dragon but this one is not immortal and has only 8 atk ... Phase dragon is IMO fine as it is.

Recluse: recluse is an excellent mid-range creature. It is one of the better damage/cost ratio in game. Sure it's tricky to use it with fractal but it's possible (see here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14300.0.html)). If you prefer you can play it with TU (an excellent card) and Lightning (another very good one) to give fast and scary control decks (see here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5700.0.html)).

Nymph: Here, I totally agree with you. Turquoise nymph is useless. Anubis is a lot better for the same purpose. You could say that you might want to use it in mono-aether. Yes but in aether most creatures are already immortal ... so what ... so Buff it, yeah! (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10275.0.html). This is, IMO, the first change aether needs.

Fractal buff: I'm among those who believe that the nerf was deserved. I even think it was not a good enough nerf. The effect should have been nerfed not the cost.

New cards: As you said Aether received 2 new cards recently. Mingate is used (as a main or secondary card) in a lot of FG-decks. I believe it's a good one. Silence still needs to find it's place but it is not a bad one either.

In conclusion, please Zanz, buff turquoise Nymph...

What about Immortal?
Also I very much agree that Tuquoise nymph needs a buff, either change the ability of Anubis, Change ability on turquoise

[zse]

Dragon: Sure, Phase dragon is not Ruby or Silurian but it gives aether part of its specificity. It's true that you will most likely play it in mono-(or heavy in aether)-decks but said decks are good (see here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,3154.0.html)). Note that it is also the case for Massive dragon but this one is not immortal and has only 8 atk ... Phase dragon is IMO fine as it is.

Recluse: recluse is an excellent mid-range creature. It is one of the better damage/cost ratio in game. Sure it's tricky to use it with fractal but it's possible (see here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14300.0.html)). If you prefer you can play it with TU (an excellent card) and Lightning (another very good one) to give fast and scary control decks (see here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5700.0.html)).
Nymph: Here, I totally agree with you. Turquoise nymph is useless. Anubis is a lot better for the same purpose. You could say that you might want to use it in mono-aether. Yes but in aether most creatures are already immortal ... so what ... so Buff it, yeah! (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10275.0.html). This is, IMO, the first change aether needs.
Fractal buff: I'm among those who believe that the nerf was deserved. I even think it was not a good enough nerf. The effect should have been nerfed not the cost.

New cards: As you said Aether received 2 new cards recently. Mingate is used (as a main or secondary card) in a lot of FG-decks. I believe it's a good one. Silence still needs to find it's place but it is not a bad one either.

In conclusion, please Zanz, buff turquoise Nymph...

Nymph useless? ??? Bit exaggerating are we?

Thing is that Nymph can also be played using Nymph’s Tears, and since Nymph cards are so rare, it's more important to keep that Common card balanced than making that Ultra-rare card shine on it's own. If any Nymph should get buff/nerf, it means at the same time that the Nymph’s Tears also gets buffed/nerfed with the same amount. Therefore in order not to make Nymph’s Tears too powerful, Nymph needs to be less powerful than Anubis.

[SnoWeb]

I'm not talking of making it better than Anubis. I just say it is less good for the same purpose. I personally would change it to something you can not have with a common card. None of the other nymphs have a normal card that has the same ability (rage, nymph tears, black hole, BB, precog, adrenaline, luciferin, antimatter, aflatoxin, UG and liquid shadow). As it is, Anubis is better so what is the interest of having a turquoise nymph? I'm sure we can have a balanced turquoise nymph that is an interesting card on its own.

[Daytripper]

As we all probably know,  has been on the receiving end of a whole lot of nerfs, both direct and indirect. And while it has gotten a few new cards (silence/mind gate), it hasn't gotten any real use, except for quinting creatures, and Blight.

I've only seen fractal, and that was a minor nerf. Honestly it only hurt the decks that keep on fractaling non stop. I don't have a problem if that is toned down a bit. ROL still looked playable to me, and the ''finishing blow fractal'' has not changed. You only need a few attackers in your deck because of fractal. Fractal and quint are some of the best backup cards in any deck. I think the real ''immortality''' of the units was toned down a long time ago, but it was needed.

I'm not sure what you mean by indirect nerfs. Sooner or later cards will get counter cards. Doesn't really effect the card itself. You still need to pack the counter. I don't know what Blight is. It's too bad people must always be cryptic. 

When I looked at aether, I thought it was strong, but very limited. Shield yourself, play expensive units that don't die. I welcome more cards for any element with  13 bazaar cards. Aether is not alone here. I don't agree on the mindgate. People use it, and it can totally take out some decks. Silence seems unimpressive so far. If you can chain it in the opening the opponent may need to discard, otherwise you just lost a card for a small effect yourself.

Phase dragon is the highest cost-worst damage dragon at 14  for 10 damage. You can't argue with that fact, and I'm not forgetting it comes it play Immortal.
Immortal, same damage as Blight, for a higher cost. Very few decks use it, and most of them are mono.
Phase Spider, 7|2 for 4 . Good in speedbows, but not much else.

This is terrible reasoning. A basalt dragon is 12  , 10 damage, and it isn't even immortal. Immortaility for 2 extra quanta? Bargain. The immortal is simply the dragon cut in half. For a medium unit that is a bit expensive. The phase spider is a good unit with high attack, no reason why it should not be used. It has a useless ability maybe.

And finally, the Nymph. More expensive then Anubis, and with an ability that costs 3x as much. I think I'll stick with Anubis.

 

I don't have one, but that may be right, I've heard it before.

Next, a comment on the fractal nerf. The fractal nerf, while necessary, put a lot of decks into the unplayable category. It also made RoL/Hope a lot slower.

Well, if it was needed, what are we talking about?

So I think you have a few small points. It can all be discussed in the card section. Don't forget that mono aether (yes mono!) can be used against AI5 and FG's. It isn't great, but the higher AI wipes the floor with most mono's. Saying that aether is suffering quite a bit seems a bit odd to me then.

[ddevans96]

As much as I love aether, the opening post is over-exaggerating quite a bit.

Mindgate for one is a underrated card, not a bad one. There's a few really good decks that use it actually. More creatures are always good Silence is still rather new to the game, and while it may not be as good as mindgate, it's still a great card for stalling long enough to set up before your opponent can do anything. And it has a few other uses as well.

As for phase dragon, it's a high-hitting creature that's unable to be targeted. Even against a fire or thorn shield, it still lasts for a while. And immortal is just a miniature version of it that you can get out faster. Also saying 'Immortal, same damage as Blight, for a higher cost' shows you didn't think this through very well. Balls only last for one turn.

Then there's phase spider. It's a great card in other places than speedbows. It can work perfectly well in a mono because of TU. You can even fractal it well if you have a lot of pillars. And as for the fractal nerf, it didn't really hurt much at all. It would be better to nerf the card advantage it gives rather than the cost so nerfing it actually does something.

Yeah, aether is fine.

[godofdeath500]

Blight stands for Ball Lightning, or upgraded Spark.

And I see we have reached a conclusion, just not a solution.  Nymph buff. So, maybe one less ability cost?

I agree with everyone else that  is fine, now that it is explained to me. But yes, the nymph can use a buff.

EDIT:
And ddevans96, I know that Ball Lighting lasts for one turn, but it can be buffed, whereas Immortal cannot. I have thought this through before posting.

And Daytripper, I did not mean the cards themselves, I meant the element in general was in need of a buff.

[ddevans96]

The only buff Aether Nymph needs is for Anubis to have a different ability that actually fits thematically. I won't get into a discussion about that.

[DrunkDestroyer]

The only buff Aether Nymph needs is for Anubis to have a different ability that actually fits thematically. I won't get into a discussion about that.

You could say that, or you could say

The only buff Aether Nymph needs is to get a whole new ability, and change Quintessence to this new, original alchemy card, that fits thematically. I won't get into a discussion about how much more awesome, balanced and generally good for the game will be, and I won't insult any of those stupid people who disagree either.

Personally, I think the second opinion is just slightly better.
And by that I mean it is the only viable option, since it is miles better than the alternative.
 

[Ekki]

The only buff Aether Nymph needs is for Anubis to have a different ability that actually fits thematically. I won't get into a discussion about that.

You could say that, or you could say

The only buff Aether Nymph needs is to get a whole new ability, and change Quintessence to this new, original alchemy card, that fits thematically. I won't get into a discussion about how much more awesome, balanced and generally good for the game will be, and I won't insult any of those stupid people who disagree either.

Personally, I think the second opinion is just slightly better.
And by that I mean it is the only viable option, since it is miles better than the alternative.
 

Well, you got a point.

(I still voted to buff/nerf the nymph by making it immortal, plus I think it should be attack nerfed)