Elemental Clockwork | Elemental Chronometer

[Boret]

NAME: Elemental Clockwork ELEMENT: Gravity COST: 4 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: Cycle through 1 Quanta ( , , , ...) every turn. After each revolution, Nova effect will be triggered. : Speed up. Cycle through one more quanta. Stackable (max. 9)	NAME: Elemental Chronometer ELEMENT: Gravity COST: 3 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: Cycle through 1 Quanta ( , , , ...) every turn. After each revolution, Nova effect will be triggered. : Speed up. Cycle through one more quanta. Stackable (max. 9)

ART: Boret' IDEA: Boret' NOTES: See below for more information. SERIES: Somehow inspired by the Quantum Mechanics series, but that's all...

First things first, hello everyone

I'm kinda (?) new to this forum, and for my first post here, I though that suggesting a card would be a fair introduction. So here is my idea of the day: the Elemental Clockwork. (Elemental Chronometer in its upgraded version)

What you may ask about this card:

* Why?
Why not? I think Elements really brings its share of (various) creatures & skills, but I somehow feel that there should be more ways to generate Quanta. Pillars and Pendulums are cool, I think the game lacks some cards that could, as a standalone (i.e. no combo like Creature + Immolation...), generate Quanta in an alternative fashion.

* What? Cycled? Revolved? I don't understand anything...
The Clockwork is designed to generate Quantas in a "pattern-way" (neologism? Sorry English is not my mother tongue), hence the cycled label. The cycle is the following:
> > > > > > > > > > > .
(Note: I tried to have opposite elements at the opposite part of the clock, hence  is at 5, and  at 11)

So, each turn (at the end of the turn), this card generate one Quanta, starting by  , then  at the next turn, etc... When the Clockwork/Chronometer return in  position, it has revolved, and then generate 1 Quanta of each element at the beginning of the turn (or it could be in addition to that is produced, at the end of the turn) . At the end of the turn, the pattern recommences and this card generate a  Quantum.

* What's with this Speed up skill?
As you may say, this card is quite slow to obtain the desired Nova effect. But here comes the Speed up thing. Once you activate this skill, the Clockwork/Chronometer cycle through one more element. So, at the end of the turn, you will gain for instance  and  , then  and  at the next turn, etc...

Note that this is a stackable ability. If you activate once again then the card will cycle through 3 elements, once again it'll be 4, etc...

* I still don't understand a f**king thing...

Well, here is an example:

You play this card at the turn +0, and speed it up every turn (powered by Mark of Time). The Quanta production will be the following:

Quanta Prod, using as a cycle.

Turn	Quanta production
+0
+1	+
+2	+ +
+3	+ + +
+4	+ + + + (+ Nova Effect)

Note that the Nova effect triggers when  is next in line. Or when  has been produced, if you prefer.

* Ok, but that's still a too complex mechanic, I mean, it'll have me counting the clock position and speed rate, etc...

True. And false, too. There are many complex mechanism in Elements. Let's say, Mutation. Mutation is in itself a rather complex mechanism (I mean, there are various probabilities of effects, combinations with other skills like Dejà Vu, Hatch, etc...). But what happens in game? You cast it on your Skeletons (or whatever else), hoping that it'll work, and that's all. You don't bother thinking about each detail, because it is overall a good deal, bringing new, and somehow interesting game possibilities.

That's the same here. The thing is, play this card, Speed it up, cash your Quanta, imagine new strategies, enjoy.

* Further details

- This card is a permanent, and it's not stacked like pillars.
- Each card has its own clock rate and clock position.

* I think that this card is useless/OP/whatever else

I think that you should feel free to discuss and suggest some changes

_________________________________________________________________________________

Changelog archive:


V2 - 2010, Dec. 12th

NAME: Elemental Clockwork ELEMENT: COST: 4 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: N/A TEXT: Generate 1 cycled ( , , , ...) Quantum every turn. When Clockwork has revolved, generate 1 of each Quanta.	NAME: Elemental Chronometer ELEMENT: COST: 3 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: N/A TEXT: Generate 1 cycled ( , , , ...) Quantum every turn. When Clockwork has revolved, generate 1 of each Quanta.

-Updated art & description


V1 - 2010, Dec. 10th

NAME: Elemental Clockwork ELEMENT: COST: 3  TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: N/A TEXT: Generate 1 cycled ( ,  ,  , ...) Quantum every turn. When Clockwork has revolved, generate 2 of each Quanta.	NAME: Elemental Chronometer ELEMENT: COST: 3  TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: N/A TEXT: Generate 1 cycled ( ,  ,  , ...) Quantum every turn. When Chronometer has revolved, generate 2 of each Quanta.

- Changed cycle of the clock:

From	> > > > > > > > > > >
To	> > > > > > > > > > >

- Changed casting cost from 3 / 3 to 4 / 3

- EC now triggers Nova effect instead of Supernova effect (Thanks to OldTrees comparison between Quantum Tower vs EC)

[The_Mormegil]

I like this idea, but I think Speed Up needs to be an "instant" ability, for a start.

Let's say you use this, plus a time mark. You speed up EVERY turn.
Quantum production:
1 - 
2 - 
3 - 
4 - 
5 -   
6 - 
7 - 

etc...

It seems too much quantum production for a single card. This + Supernova could probably be enough of a quantum base for ANY Rainbow deck, and unless it's a speedbow it would be the BEST quantum source for them. This is bad, as it shuts down Seism and earthquake decks, increases the power of controlbows greatly and all in all would be VERY played. As a method of judgement, I often think "would I use this card in EVERY deck, or even just MOST of them?"
If the answer is yes (and it is) the card is probably OP.

Anyway, the idea is nice. I see two possible directions for it though: the first is "pillar-direction" (card is free, is a quantum producer, and although you keep the "revolving" aspect of the card itself you change it drastically; in this direction, I would suggest that it produces 4 quanta, in order, each turn - more than a quantum pillar, although the revolving aspect is kind of limiting - as you can see using the pendulums).
The second (and better, in my opinion) is the "permanent-direction".
Keep it as permanent, but change the way it works so that it can be played but isn't as powerful as it is now. I'd like it as a permanent with cost 2, ability cost 2|1 (random quanta, time is too limiting), produces 4 quanta of the next "step" in the clock.


On a sidenote, if you want opposite elements in the order, remember that opposites are:
      |          |          |          |          |     

[OldTrees]

Hmm. Nice Idea. I hope it can be balanced.

 

I will try to break it:

Upgraded (easier to break)
Time Mark (faster, more reliable quanta)

Turn +0
Total Cost ( =1)[1]
Elemental Chronometer is played.
Generated [ ]
Turn +1
Total Cost ( =1)[2]
Speed Up (powered by mark)
Generated [ ]
Total [ ]
Turn +2
Total Cost ( =1)[3]
Speed Up (powered by mark)
Generated [ ]
Total [ ]
Total Cost ( =1)[4]
Turn +3
Speed Up (powered by mark)
Generated [ ]
Total [ ]
Turn +4
Total Cost ( =1)[5]
Speed Up (powered by mark)
Generated [ ]
Total [4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 ]
Turn +5
Total Cost ( =1)[6]
Speed Up (powered by mark)
Generated [ ]
Total [4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 ]
Turn +6
Total Cost ( =1)[7]
Speed Up (powered by mark)
Generated [ ]
Total [7 7 7 7 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 ]
Turn +7
Total Cost ( =1)[8]
Speed Up (powered by mark)
Generated [ ]
Total [7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 ]

[Boret]

Thanks for your reply

Concerning the Quanta production, in fact it would be (speeding up every turn):
1 - 
2 - 
3 - 
4 -     
5 -    [] >>> []     + >>> Supernova Effect (hence an additionnal 2 of each quanta)
6 -       

Once the clock revolve, it does triggers the Supernova effect, but you don't produce 2 of each Quanta after.
Also, remind that it requires 2 (1 in its upped version), making it quite costly to increase in the early game without putting you in danger. I think that most of the time, the clock will have an average clock rate of 3-4 elements per turn.

So as you said, this is not suitable for speed rainbows (or you would have to focus on    and  for a quick start with 2/3 of these cards), but it gains great power (at a somehow expensive cost at the beginning of a game) over the time. But maybe the upped version is a bit OP, since you can get 1 Supernova effects in 5 turns, at a cost of 4 + 3

The non-stackable thing might indeed ( ) be an issue for earthquake users, but I wanted the clocks to have their own clock rates & speed, because I found it funnier. Maybe it could be changed in a creature? (with something like 0|3~5)

About the two ideas, I think that you may have pointed something interesting, but I didn't fully understand the mechanic you're suggesting.

EDIT (for Old Trees)
Thanks too
Just on a note, you need to switch  &  so opposite Elements are faced (like on the picture)
Icons appart ( ) you're right, that was what what I initiallly meant by "2 of each quanta". This happends only once, when the clock has revolved. Note that at full speeding up, on turn 7 it is equivalent to having 1 of each pillar drawn at the beginning of the game. But you know many things can happen betweend turn 1 and 7 

[OldTrees]

I would recommend changing it to  ,  ,  ,  .

I would also recommend removing the Supernova Effect (it is a powerful enough quanta engine with out that effect.)

I would further recommend that both the unupped and upgraded activation cost be . (Have the unupped cost 6 to play)

Upgraded (easier to break)
Time Mark (faster, more reliable quanta)

Turn +0
Total Cost ( =1)[1]
Elemental Chronometer is played.
Generated [ ]
Turn +1
Total Cost ( =1)[2]
Speed Up (powered by mark)
Generated [ ]
Total [ ]
Turn +2
Total Cost ( =1)[3]
Speed Up (powered by mark)
Generated [ ]
Total [ ]
Total Cost ( =1)[4]
Turn +3
Speed Up (powered by mark)
Generated [ ]
Total [ ]
Turn +4
Total Cost ( =1)[5]
Speed Up (powered by mark)
Generated [ ]
Total [2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 ]
Turn +5
Total Cost ( =1)[6]
Speed Up (powered by mark)
Generated [ ]
Total [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 ]
Turn +6
Total Cost ( =1)[7]
Speed Up (powered by mark)
Generated [ ]
Total [3 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 ]
Turn +7
Total Cost ( =1)[8]
Speed Up (powered by mark)
Generated [ ]
Total [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 ]Comparison to Quantum Towers

Turn	Quanta from 1 tower	Quanta from EC	Number of Towers to equal EC	Cost of EC
+0	6	1	1/6	1
+1	9	3	1/3	2
+2	12	6	1/2	3
+3	15	10	2/3	4
+4	18	15	5/6	5
+5	21	21	1	6
+6	24	28	7/6	7
+7	27	36	4/3	8
+N	3(N+2)	(N+1)(N+2)/2	(N+1)/6	N+1

[Boret]

OldTrees, you're quite the analytic guy, right? (I love to do calculations just like these, so no offence)

About the change in the order, why not, but could you explain possible synergy? (maybe I didn't noticed some). When I though of the order, I started with the idea that      and  should be at cardinal points (just for coolness...), and just put one of the  [   ] group and then one of the  [ ] group at each quarter of the clock, opposing the opposite elements.

Your table really makes sense when compared to the EC in terms of Quanta production. So I must admit that you are right about removing the supernova effect. But, I liked the idea of the clock making a "Ding-dong" thing when giving you your Quanta. What about reducing the effect to a simple Nova and increasing initial cost to 5 (thus, possibly delaying this card by 1 turn)?

[OldTrees]

The most common subdivisions
Cardinal

Material

Spiritual
Then I randomly staggered the 3 sets starting with Time

I think you could instead have the card make a small ding dong sound each time it moves from element to element (tick-tock might be better) That way as it speeds up you get a faster and faster tictocktictocktictocktictocktictock sound.

Since EC+a Mark already exceeds a quanta Tower as fast as it does, increasing the cost (especially ) will not have much effect. I think making the card simpler and easier to balance by removing nova is the best option.

Also I would prefer this as a  card instead of a  card. The ordered nature of the quanta generation screams "Gravity!" to me and the ability to speed the card up sounds like Time obviously.

If the novas were to stick around and if the card were changed to cost :Gravity to play then it might work and still occur early enough to speed up.

Will edit in comparison of  EC with nova on 12 quanta.
Table is used for upgraded EC
Casting Cost: 4 |3
Activation Cost:
E=(Quanta from EC-3xCost of EC)/Quanta from QT

Turn	Quanta from QT	Quanta from EC	Novas triggered	Cost of EC	E
+0	6	1	0	3	-1.833
+1	9	3	0	4	-1.000
+2	12	6	0	5	-0.750
+3	15	10	0	6	-0.533
+4	18	27	1	7	0.333
+5	21	33	1	8	0.429
+6	24	52	2	9	1.042
+7	27	72	3	10	1.556
+8	30	81	3	11	1.600
+9	33	103	4	12	2.030
+10	36	126	5	13	2.417
+11	39	150	6	14	2.769

[Boret]

Ok for the group, I'll edit the card picture & cycle (I wasn't sure about Entropy/Gravity place). So, to summarize, for the time being:
- Remove Nova ability
- Change cycle
- Make it a  / card.
- Decrease the cost of ability to  for both versions.

For the ding-dong, it would happen when the clock has revolved, but the ticktock thing is not bad too Might be quite stressful when 3 or more of them are in play

So about the cost, what about 4 (3 for upped version)? (I'm not sure, cause it could be useless if too expensive, and OP if not).
Anyway, I'm looking forward your comparison, and many thanks for your time

[OldTrees]

So about the cost, what about 4 (3 for upped version)?

Comparison added above. Are you a precog? 4|3 was the balanced cost I concluded.

Great artwork by the way!

[Ajit]

+1 for originality, and for being able to keep up, if not fully comprehend, OldTrees amazing analytical skills

Love the art, might be OP'd at the moment, if it can start to make 3 to 4 to etc quanta a turn, but the idea is very nice.

[Boret]

So it takes basically +6 turns to the EC to be rentable vs a Quantum Tower. But after that, I think it really owns, I mean, having a Nova at almost every turn is kind of Oo
Yet, it still takes time to setup, so it should be compared to average duration of a game per category (rush/balanced/long setup). Considering it might overall take at least 2-3 turns to be able to get 3 , this thing would seriously heat up around turn 9~10.

How did you calculate the balanced cost? I just put 4/3 cause I had the feeling, but if you got a formula this might help for future designs.

Also, I just had an idea. Couldn't it make an interesting combo with Reverse Time? Here what I though:
-When a EC comes into play, the clock rate is 1. You can speed up the thing, then it'll become 2 (cycle 2 quanta per turn)
- If you RT it, the clock rate becomes -1, meaning the Quanta will be cycled counter clockwise.

So the formula for clock rate is:
- When Speed up => X + sign(X).
 Example: Clockrate (2) + Speed up => Clockrate (3) // Clockrate (-4) + Speed up => Clockrate (-5)

- When RT => X - 2 * sign(X).
Example: Clockrate (5) + RT => Clockrate (3) // Clockrate (-3) + RT => Clockrate (-1)

- If clockrate =0 (i.e. the card act as a pillar, generating 1 Quanta of an element depending of the position of the clock), RT will make it -1, and speed up will make it +1

That would make it easier for Elements positioned last on the clock (from 7 to 11), if you need them at the beginning of the game. And it would give your opponent a way to slow down your crazy Quanta generation after turns 10+
Obviously in this case, Nova should be triggered after one full turn, cause if not, RT + RT + RT at position 1 would create a Nova loop

Anyway, thanks about the art, I think that it could still be improved, but it's not the priority now ^^

[OldTrees]

Since the optimum use it to continuously speed up, I don't think reverse time is a useful tactic.
Since PC is so easy, I don't think reverse time is a useful tactic.

As for balance, I picked a turn at which I felt it would be fair for this to be UP before and OP after. That turn happened to be +6 which would probably appear at turn 8-9. If the stall works then there will be quanta galore. If it fails it typically will do so in the first 17-19 turns.