(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1948/eccardnonupv4.png) | (http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4600/eccardupv4.png) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| Quanta Prod, using :time :death :fire :gravity :light :earth :aether :life :water :entropy :darkness :air as a cycle. |
| Turn | Quanta production |
| +0 | :time |
| +1 | :death + :fire |
| +2 | :gravity + :light + :earth |
| +3 | :aether + :life + :water + :entropy |
| +4 | :darkness + :air + :time + :death + :fire (+ Nova Effect) |
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5948/eccardnonupv2.png) | (http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/1834/eccardupv2.png) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| From | :time > :water > :entropy > :light > :life > :earth > :aether > :fire > :gravity > :death > :darkness > :air |
| To | :time > :death > :fire > :gravity > :light > :earth > :aether > :life > :water > :entropy > :darkness > :air |
| Turn | Quanta from 1 tower | Quanta from EC | Number of Towers to equal EC | Cost of EC |
| +0 | 6 | 1 | 1/6 | 1 |
| +1 | 9 | 3 | 1/3 | 2 |
| +2 | 12 | 6 | 1/2 | 3 |
| +3 | 15 | 10 | 2/3 | 4 |
| +4 | 18 | 15 | 5/6 | 5 |
| +5 | 21 | 21 | 1 | 6 |
| +6 | 24 | 28 | 7/6 | 7 |
| +7 | 27 | 36 | 4/3 | 8 |
| +N | 3(N+2) | (N+1)(N+2)/2 | (N+1)/6 | N+1 |
| Turn | Quanta from QT | Quanta from EC | Novas triggered | Cost of EC | E |
| +0 | 6 | 1 | 0 | 3 | -1.833 |
| +1 | 9 | 3 | 0 | 4 | -1.000 |
| +2 | 12 | 6 | 0 | 5 | -0.750 |
| +3 | 15 | 10 | 0 | 6 | -0.533 |
| +4 | 18 | 27 | 1 | 7 | 0.333 |
| +5 | 21 | 33 | 1 | 8 | 0.429 |
| +6 | 24 | 52 | 2 | 9 | 1.042 |
| +7 | 27 | 72 | 3 | 10 | 1.556 |
| +8 | 30 | 81 | 3 | 11 | 1.600 |
| +9 | 33 | 103 | 4 | 12 | 2.030 |
| +10 | 36 | 126 | 5 | 13 | 2.417 |
| +11 | 39 | 150 | 6 | 14 | 2.769 |
So about the cost, what about 4 :gravity (3 :gravity for upped version)?Comparison added above. Are you a precog? 4|3 :gravity was the balanced cost I concluded.
Compared Quanta Prod, using :time :death :fire, :gravity :light :earth, :aether :life :water, :entropy :darkness :air as a cycle.
At the same clockrate, 2 EC CW needs 2 turns where you'll receive something like 2x(:time :death :fire, :gravity :light :earth), and get the remaining prod at the other turn (i.e. equivalent to 4 Novas. It's just a matter of preference, but I think that sometimes, it could be useful to even your production so you're not waiting for the last missing Quantum another turn, or if you want to toss in specific creatures without waiting 3/4 turns. The only thing is, I don't want to make this card too complicated, but as it is, you can play it, speed it up, and harvest your Quanta in a simple way. I just though that it could be fun to add more advanced strategy, without ruining its "simplicity"... |
| Turns | Quantum from QT | Quantum from EC |
| 1 | 6 | 0 (1-1) |
| 2 | 9 | 2 |
| 3 | 12 | 5 |
| 4 | 15 | 9 |
| 5 | 18 | 13 |
| 6 | 21 | 17 |
| 7 | 24 | 21 |
| 8 | 27 | 25 |
I completely misunderstood the card. Anyway, I agree with OldTrees, you should take away the Supernova effect. Just focus on balancing it as a quantum producer.The speed up ability is the card. Otherwise it would have to start at 3 quanta and cost 0 like quantum pillars.
I don't like the speed up ability, though, and I think taking it away would be best... But it's your idea, so. I think max speed should be 4, and that it should speed up by itself once per turn. If you do that, you should probably reduce the cost to 2|1.
| Turn | Quanta from QP|QT | Quanta from EC | Quanta from Novas | Converted Quanta Cost of EC | EC-Q | EC-nova-Q |
| +0 | 3|6 | 1 | 0 | 12|9 | -14 | -14 |
| +1 | 6|9 | 3 | 0 | 15|12 | -18 | -18 |
| +2 | 9|12 | 6 | 0 | 18|15 | -21 | -21 |
| +3 | 12|15 | 10 | 0 | 21|18 | -23 | -23 |
| +4 | 15|18 | 15 | 12 | 24|21 | -12 | -24 |
| +5 | 18|21 | 21 | 12 | 27|24 | -12 | -24 |
| +6 | 21|24 | 28 | 24 | 30|27 | 1 | -23 |
| +7 | 24|27 | 36 | 36 | 33|30 | 15 | -21 |
| +8 | 27|30 | 45 | 36 | 36|33 | 18 | -18 |
| +9 | 30|33 | 55 | 48 | 39|36 | 34 | -14 |
| +10 | 33|36 | 66 | 60 | 42|39 | 51 | -9 |
| +11 | 36|39 | 78 | 72 | 45|42 | 69 | -3 |
| +12 | 39|42 | 91 | 84 | 48|45 | 88 | 4 |
| +13 | 42|45 | 105 | 96 | 51|48 | 108 | 12 |
| +14 | 45|48 | 120 | 120 | 54|51 | 141 | 21 |
| +15 | 48|51 | 136 | 132 | 57|54 | 163 | 31 |
| +16 | 51|54 | 153 | 144 | 60|57 | 186 | 42 |
| +17 | 54|57 | 171 | 168 | 63|60 | 222 | 54 |
| +18 | 57|60 | 190 | 180 | 66|63 | 247 | 67 |
| +19 | 60|63 | 210 | 204 | 69|66 | 285 | 81 |
| Ideal Max Speed | Relevant End |
| 12 | +14 |
| 11 | +14 |
| 10 | +15-+16 |
| 9 | +15-+17 |
| 8 | +17-+21 |
| 7 | +22-+28 |
I know that changing the Max Speed won't affect the beginning of the production, which I find good too by the way (hence the "Max" thing :P ).The relevant end and the theory of irrelevant excess:
But I didn't understand the "relevant" end part. Do you mean it is the point when EC=1+ 2.33 QT? In what is it the relevant end?
Here, I added graph ratio for Max Speed 9, along with another one from max speed 6 to max speed 12, so you can have an overview of what we can tweak:
P.S.: Thanks :) I can't tell you precisely how to do gradients in graphs because I don't use an english version of Excel, but in the 2007 version, right-click on the graph zone (not the curves), then you should have something like Formatting... Then you can choose from a menu if you want plain, or gradient fill, along with some other options ;)
thanks for the earlier english boretThe Mormegil: I don't agree. Yes, this card is not fit for speed decks (at least I don't think so, we should see what would 2~3 of these cards do). You say speed is only matched by versatility. But tell me, what's more versatile that a card potentially providing you 1 of each quanta every other turn + a fair amount of quanta?
joebob777: thanks :) There is just this thing I don't understand, but you're welcome anyways :Pin my part of the world, when ever we need some help from some stuff we dont understand, we say "in english please" its what i was going forQuotethanks for the earlier english boret
The text on the card needs to match the text in the table :)at max speed, it will be equivalent to 6 quantum pillars, for about 2 per pillar, you could play that much at the first turn
I like the card overall, though it might be too much quanta generation at the same time.
Also, there's an in game cycle used in the bazaar you might use, but the current cycle works too :)
On a sidenote, I made art for the Entangling Roots (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,15093.0.html), and I saw later that you were willing to do it too. Do you have any news from card author ?I couldn't get what I had in my head to look right on the screen. I was still working on it, but he can use your art if he wants :)
Question, why is that a gravity card? it seems more like a time card imo.Gravity is the opposite Element from Entropy
this card is elemental Clockwork Elemental Chrono]meter. its skill is called speed up All of these things sound more like Time than gravityQuestion, why is that a gravity card? it seems more like a time card imo.Gravity is the opposite Element from Entropy
Entropy is the Element of luck (good and/or bad) and chaos
Therefore Gravity is the Element of Order
The quanta produced is highly ordered.
I agree that the name and activated skill are very Time ishthis card is elemental Clockwork Elemental Chrono]meter. its skill is called speed up All of these things sound more like Time than gravityQuestion, why is that a gravity card? it seems more like a time card imo.Gravity is the opposite Element from Entropy
Entropy is the Element of luck (good and/or bad) and chaos
Therefore Gravity is the Element of Order
The quanta produced is highly ordered.
oh ok. so since nova creates 1 quanta of each element(thats stable and even) it would fit gravity more than entropy.I agree that the name and activated skill are very Time ishthis card is elemental Clockwork Elemental Chrono]meter. its skill is called speed up All of these things sound more like Time than gravityQuestion, why is that a gravity card? it seems more like a time card imo.Gravity is the opposite Element from Entropy
Entropy is the Element of luck (good and/or bad) and chaos
Therefore Gravity is the Element of Order
The quanta produced is highly ordered.
I think that the automatic effect is very Gravity ish
As such I think it fits best as either a Gravity card with a Time skill (which means it will cost 4|3 :gravity +8 :time total)
or as a mono Time card (which means it will cost 12|11 :time total)
All in all I felt the total cost 8 :time +4|3 :gravity is slightly more thematically accurate than 12|11 :time.
Which is why I suggested it be a duo card. However it will still be great as a Mono card.
That is a good point Entropy v Gravity probably is not Order vs Chaos. I could still be order(different meaning to order) vs entropy. In this case stable and even is a sign of entropy but structured like a sequence would order.oh ok. so since nova creates 1 quanta of each element(thats stable and even) it would fit gravity more than entropy.I agree that the name and activated skill are very Time ishthis card is elemental Clockwork Elemental Chrono]meter. its skill is called speed up All of these things sound more like Time than gravityQuestion, why is that a gravity card? it seems more like a time card imo.Gravity is the opposite Element from Entropy
Entropy is the Element of luck (good and/or bad) and chaos
Therefore Gravity is the Element of Order
The quanta produced is highly ordered.
I think that the automatic effect is very Gravity ish
As such I think it fits best as either a Gravity card with a Time skill (which means it will cost 4|3 :gravity +8 :time total)
or as a mono Time card (which means it will cost 12|11 :time total)
All in all I felt the total cost 8 :time +4|3 :gravity is slightly more thematically accurate than 12|11 :time.
Which is why I suggested it be a duo card. However it will still be great as a Mono card.
should cost 1 of each quantum to play.Why?
speed up should cost whatever element comes next and produce it
this way speeding up ondly brings nova closer.
upgraded should be identical but free to play
what i mean isCosts can only be 1 element type or undefined.
cost: :air :darkness :death :earth :entropy :fire :gravity :life :light :time :water
speed up cycles threw the clock without producing aneything
supernova is replaced with nova
in addishion maby limit speed up to 3 per turnCould you explain why? The calculations earlier in the thread tell a much different conclusion.
if they speed up *9 per turn nova activactes 3 times evry 4 turns.Please check the logic around this post (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17373.msg237441#msg237441). The linked post is the last in the calculations of balancing it against Quantum Pillar. Please read.
quantim pillar will generate 12 random quantims in that time
this will do triple that.
on closer inspection the limit could be 4. 5 or 6 if this card is rare.