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Offline Sir ValimontTopic starter

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Editorial: My Views on the Event Card Drama https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14876.msg188877#msg188877
« on: October 30, 2010, 09:29:53 pm »
It is rare that I would feel so strongly about a community issue here that I would write my views into an editorial, but the latest drama over the pro-Light events card in War has tilted the balance far enough.

For those not yet aware, War is the largest community event here at Elements, where players join one of 12 teams, each team representing and using cards from a given Element. Each "round" of tournament-style fighting that happens has a random "event card" associated with it that gives random advantages or bonuses in certain circumstances. The first round was a success; the event card was a bonus to beating your opponent 2 games to 0 instead of just 2 games to 1. The second round's event card was recently posted and almost instantly caused a boycott amongst players because they thought it was unfair. The card enables all Light-element cards to be played as upgraded cards, and that gives an advantage to the Light-elemental team over the others (although every team can use the bonus to a lesser extent).

--

To put it succinctly, I am majorly disappointed in this community.

Good sportsmanship is an important quality in all aspects of life, and it is a basic quality of maturity. We are here in a community around a game which by definition depends on an element of luck. Anyone who is unwilling to have to face bad luck should not be playing this game at all; anyone who feels cheated by a slight advantage -- which is what the round 2 card is -- should remain polite to the people who have spent lots of time setting this up for us (which many of you have utterly failed to do and you owe those people an apology), and then instead of whining, do their best to design a strategy for success in spite of the hardship.

One thing that separates adults from children is that children never seem to understand the necessity -- and the real benefit -- of a challenge. If something is hard, they complain. "It's unfair!" Few seem to realize that exactly what makes a game enjoyable or worth playing is that there is a challenge, and there's the fact that not every roll of the die is going to go your way.

If you honestly think the Light-upgraded advantage is unfair, you are just plain wrong and frankly I think creating a boycott is juvenile. Probably you have made the event worse for everyone because now we are unlikely to have event cards at all.

Let's say you think the "Age of Element" cards need a redesign. That's a fine opinion. This is a community and your opinion should be heard -- especially if a lot of people agree. It is excellent that you want to contribute and there should be a complete discussion about these things. However there is a right way to do this and a wrong way to do this. The right way is it should be discussed and taken into effect for next War. The wrong way is to create a problem now and complain. You don't change the rules of the game after you start playing. Wanting to do so is a quality of a coward, not a winner.

On team Entropy we took the news of the new round by saying "wow" and then immediately "how should we strategize about this." We thought about how this would change our opponents' moves, how it would change our salvages, etc.

Just the same way team Entropy was forced to fight against THREE masters in the first round when most of you had to fight one or zero as a team, instead of complaining we took the challenge head-on and enjoyed coming up with counter-strategies.

It's about time people stopped acting like crybabies and took the round 2 card in stride. Figure out a strategic solution. Yes, Light has an advantage this round -- that's nice for them. I think it's utterly unfair and shameful and disappointing that this community has now threatened to take away that advantage from Light just because they got a lucky draw. It's like wanting Rastafla to give up all his nymphs that he's won from the Oracle because it's "unfair" that the rest of us aren't so lucky.

Grow up, community. Grow up.

Offline Higurashi

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Re: Editorial: My Views on the Event Card Drama https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14876.msg188904#msg188904
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2010, 10:02:34 pm »
Yup, this is pretty much what some of us have said in the chat. I'm not particularly disappointed though, since I expected it. I find it quite astonishing that people would initiate a boycott in a free event organized on a free forum, free game and by people who do it for free, though. Just another product of the influence of democracy and welfare on people's attitudes.
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Re: Editorial: My Views on the Event Card Drama https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14876.msg188909#msg188909
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2010, 10:09:14 pm »
Thank you for posting this Vali, this pretty much sums up how I felt and now feel about how this entire thing went down.

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Re: Editorial: My Views on the Event Card Drama https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14876.msg188913#msg188913
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2010, 10:12:47 pm »
Being an outside observer looking in, I see two issues intertwined. One being the OP of certain event cards and the other is in how some people reacted. For the sake of argument, I'd say look at each differently and watch for one bleeding into the other.

Offline Sir ValimontTopic starter

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Re: Editorial: My Views on the Event Card Drama https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14876.msg188920#msg188920
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2010, 10:19:16 pm »
Being an outside observer looking in, I see two issues intertwined. One being the OP of certain event cards and the other is in how some people reacted. For the sake of argument, I'd say look at each differently and watch for one bleeding into the other.
OP = overpoweredness, yes?

I think you make a very good point. Definitely I don't want to discourage conversation about the event cards. I think that conversation is good and necessary. Heck, I myself might not even think the cards are perfect. But that's a completely different point from whether or not it's appropriate to boycott the event.

So to be clear: I really have no issue with people expressing their opinions about the event card. I have a problem with them boycotting the event though -- a major problem.

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Re: Editorial: My Views on the Event Card Drama https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14876.msg188921#msg188921
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2010, 10:22:09 pm »
OP = overpoweredness, yes?
For clarity sake, yes. ;)

Offline moomoose

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Re: Editorial: My Views on the Event Card Drama https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14876.msg188924#msg188924
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2010, 10:27:07 pm »
you shouldnt have a problem with teams boycotting.  a boycott is simply them saying "if this is the way its gonna be, we'd rather just stop playing at this point".  the powers that be opted to alter the rules rather than have some chunk of players opt to sit out for the rest of the tournament
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Re: Editorial: My Views on the Event Card Drama https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14876.msg188927#msg188927
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2010, 10:30:03 pm »
Noone was threatening to stop playing. They simply decided not to use the advantage. Boycott really isn't even the right word for it since noone was threatening to stop playing completely.

Offline Sir ValimontTopic starter

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Re: Editorial: My Views on the Event Card Drama https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14876.msg188929#msg188929
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2010, 10:32:12 pm »
you shouldnt have a problem with teams boycotting.  a boycott is simply them saying "if this is the way its gonna be, we'd rather just stop playing at this point".  the powers that be opted to alter the rules rather than have some chunk of players opt to sit out for the rest of the tournament
In real life I care a lot about how the people in my neighborhood act because it makes it more or less pleasant for me to live where I do. Similarly, I care about how people in this community act because it makes the community a better or worse one to participate in.

Believe me, I understand those teams' frustrations. And honestly I don't think they had bad intentions or that they are bad people or something. I think they acted out of emotion and without thinking things through, and in doing so they were quite rude to the organizers and their actions cost the whole community the chance to have event cards. They should realize that and in the future act with more restraint. And hey, we can all help each other out in this regard -- sometimes if someone rubs me the wrong way, I tend to use harsh language and maybe overreact slightly, so I rely on my peers in the community to tell me I'm wrong. That's what I am doing for you all right now.

Offline Sir ValimontTopic starter

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Re: Editorial: My Views on the Event Card Drama https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14876.msg188931#msg188931
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2010, 10:32:57 pm »
Noone was threatening to stop playing. They simply decided not to use the advantage. Boycott really isn't even the right word for it since noone was threatening to stop playing completely.
I've used the term boycott because that's the term the players taking the actions used. Perhaps it's not perfectly accurate but I think the spirit is analogous.

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Re: Editorial: My Views on the Event Card Drama https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14876.msg188934#msg188934
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2010, 10:36:53 pm »
This 'editorial' basically points fingers at mrblonde, the one who started the boycott, and maybe me, who almost got to the point of agreeing to it; and I'd like to make one point clear:

The main point of your argument is that the players who started the boycott did so because they thought Light was given a huge advantage over others.



If you honestly think the Light-upgraded advantage is unfair, you are just plain wrong and frankly I think creating a boycott is juvenile. Probably you have made the event worse for everyone because now we are unlikely to have event cards at all.

....

On team Entropy we took the news of the new round by saying "wow" and then immediately "how should we strategize about this." We thought about how this would change our opponents' moves, how it would change our salvages, etc.

It's about time people stopped acting like crybabies and took the round 2 card in stride. Figure out a strategic solution. Yes, Light has an advantage this round -- that's nice for them. I think it's utterly unfair and shameful and disappointing that this community has now threatened to take away that advantage from Light just because they got a lucky draw.
Now look at what mrblonde had posted.

It's just too skewed and OP towards one team and IMO will put a blemish on the winner.

So basically as a community we can decide to continue to complain about this card or actually do something. So here's what i will do regardless if this is changed or not.

1) Simply do not play free upped cards. Up the 3 or 6 cards for Generals or Lieutenants but that's it. Ends the drama right there.
2) If team Death receives this type of card later in the event we will not be using this as an advantage. Basically we will not use this "type" of card at all.

So Team Death will be boycotting this "type" of card and throughout the tourney we will not be using this to our advantage. Sorry Team Death for not consulting first but i feel that this is the correct thing to do.

The boycotters had never said that they were angry at the fact that team Light specifically gained an advantage over others. The whole point was that such type of event card every round could skew the entire event here and there, and even could potentially lead to an unsatisfactory ending of the event. For example, suppose in the last round, team Fire somehow got lucky and the event card became "Age of Fire". It would have had a significant advantage over the opposing team and would've won the last round easily.

Do you think that team would've felt truly victorious and proud of themselves, or as mrblonde said, feel blemish for winning with age of fire card support?

I realize that SG spent tremendous amount of time designing all this, but it could have been better to check what the community's reaction would have been first.


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Re: Editorial: My Views on the Event Card Drama https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14876.msg188936#msg188936
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2010, 10:38:18 pm »
No one ever tried to boycott the event. Boycott was directed specifically to those event cards that unbalance the event. In other words, what MrBlonde posted was "We wont be using our possible event card to our advantage. If you want to do it, do it. Bye". I dont see what part of that is exactly "childish".

80+% of the people said they are against the cards that benefit certain elements. Why is it so wrong to remove them if that is the case?

Additionally, no one ever knew that event cards would be element biased. What I, and I believe most others, expected was cards like the card from the round 1 - something that affects the war, but all teams equally. In all honesty, I dont want to spend hours/days trying to min-max everything just to be knocked out by an event card, and if I knew such cards would be added, I wouldnt have joined the event.
So, let me quote you:
Quote
You don't change the rules of the game after you start playing.
That is all.

 

anything
blarg: