Author

Reid4891 · « **Reply #108 on:** October 22, 2012, 05:27:01 pm »

Quote from: Sevs on October 22, 2012, 04:52:26 pm

Elidnis I am pretty sure I got pretty lucky on but that kind of RNG variation is hard to keep level in only ~5 games per god. This probably goes for octane as well. Even playing octane with other decks there are times where it draws every UG right off the bat or it starts out with a crazy number of OE's, it is really unstable.

Well, thanks for taking to bother to answer me. I obviously agree, that's why I plan to reach at least 1000 games to get a better estimate.

Quote from: Sevs on October 22, 2012, 04:52:26 pm

As for DC, I still never really had a problem with it maybe not 6-1 quality but if you save your towers to play 2 at a time with a poison, I find it isn't terrible.

I'm 5-8 vs DC (unluckily it's also the 2nd FG which came out often). My problem is that I usually get only 1 tower (killed by quicksand) and it plays an early Discord almost every time. Then, I can't draw with sundials due to Discord messing the poor little quanta I've. I don't know maybe on the long run I'm gonna be luckier, let's see what will happen.

Quote from: Sevs on October 22, 2012, 04:52:26 pm

And then with the addition of SoF, changes to purify, 60% doesn't seem so bad.

Oh, thanks. This kind of reassure me that I'm not playing it wrong. Still, the Elements Game Simulator by Xenocidius is around 70%. Is there something wrong for that?

Sevs · « **Reply #109 on:** October 22, 2012, 05:38:46 pm »

Quote from: Reid4891 on October 22, 2012, 05:27:01 pm

Quote from: Sevs on October 22, 2012, 04:52:26 pm
And then with the addition of SoF, changes to purify, 60% doesn't seem so bad.

Oh, thanks. This kind of reassure me that I'm not playing it wrong. Still, the Elements Game Simulator by Xenocidius is around 70%. Is there something wrong for that?

That bugged me too, That is the reason I took stats in the first place, when the simulator came out I tried a bunch of the decks I had made. It kept coming up with numbers like 78-82% which I was shocked by so i tried it out. I wonder if we tried to pay exactly how the AI would play if we do any better?

Gandora · « **Reply #110 on:** October 22, 2012, 06:14:30 pm »

Quote from: Sevs on October 22, 2012, 05:38:46 pm

I wonder if we tried to pay exactly how the AI would play if we do any better?

I guess the AI would play Sundials immediately and always draw?
Also, it does chain SoSac.
Not sure if the faster poison by drawing early is a greater advantage than stalling mid-game.

Reid4891 · « **Reply #111 on:** October 22, 2012, 09:21:24 pm »

Quote from: Gandora on October 22, 2012, 06:14:30 pm

I guess the AI would play Sundials immediately and always draw?
Also, it does chain SoSac.
Not sure if the faster poison by drawing early is a greater advantage than stalling mid-game.

No, no.

It's impossible an AI can play better than a human (and better than me especially

), trust me. I did some tests and I think it is a bug. This is a test on 100 matches vs Miracles:

32% winrate vs Miracle? And if you wanna try, Ferox and Incarnate are similar (30-35%). Only Fire Queen goes well against it (Win rate less than 10%). Those should be all decks that you could win with 0-5% chances. This is clearly a bug (or I'm using the Simulator in an incorrect way).

UnderneathTheLens · « **Reply #112 on:** October 22, 2012, 09:51:15 pm »

Yep, somehow Player 1 got healed by damage without playing one or losing 40 HP

Player 1 = Poison Dials SoSa
Player 2 = Miracle

Spoiler for Hidden:

Reid4891 · « **Reply #113 on:** October 22, 2012, 10:41:27 pm »

I think I got it. It seems once AI PoisonDial plays a SoSac the effect is permanent (in practice the counter never goes down, it's always 2 and goes to 4 even if the 2nd SoSac is played a lot of turns later). Basically it loses 40 HP and for all the game enemy creatures keeps healing it.

Game vs Ferox

Spoiler for Hidden:

This is how the AI can even win vs Ferox. Basically playing a SoSac asap, -40 HP and infinite healing. It can only lose by deckout, but if AI played the SoSac when there was just few creatures it can overcome the Feral Bonds healing factor (because the FG stops playing creatures for all the game after 1st SoSac).

Similar Miracle it's forced to discard Improved Miracles (because it's unable to play creatures for all the game since there is this perpetual SoSac).

Game vs Miracle

Spoiler for Hidden:

Now I also get why Fire Queen is the only deck that goes well vs PoisonDial AI. It just needs to play a FFQ before the 1st SoSac (and a Feral Bond later) to win since it keeps spamming fireflies despite the SoSac, while Ferox stops playing creatures.

kimham8a · « **Reply #114 on:** October 23, 2012, 01:27:08 am »

Wow then a deck based on sosa, eternity and photon, forest spectre, and quintessence could get a 99.9% winrate against fg's according to the simulator.

Reid4891 · « **Reply #115 on:** October 23, 2012, 01:34:17 pm »

Quote from: kimham8a on October 23, 2012, 01:27:08 am

Wow then a deck based on sosa, eternity and photon, forest spectre, and quintessence could get a 99.9% winrate against fg's according to the simulator.

I don't think so. Beside the fact that that deck would need five elements (

,

) -

because you need to PA your eternity and I think also time towers - which it's kind of complicated to do, quanta denial decks such as Decay and Dark Matter won't let you bounce your photon back indefinitely (probably you can't even start to do it). Discord could be a problem too. Unless you can put a Sanctuary in, but well that would be the 6th element and can you play it in time? It'd be better to try to deck out the FG but there are still problems with it. With Decay you need a protected Sanctuary very soon and I don't think you'll be able to do it.

And we're obviously playing it conscious of that SoSac trick. The AI is unaware of that and it will keep playing SoSac losing all its quanta. ^^

Plantifant · « **Reply #116 on:** October 23, 2012, 02:41:45 pm »

What is actually the best poison dials now?
And does it work, since there is ALOT of PC in arena which will kill all your sundials, also there are Purify's, so I keep doubting if I will use this kind of a deck.

Reid4891 · « **Reply #117 on:** October 23, 2012, 05:38:47 pm »

Quote from: Plantifant on October 23, 2012, 02:41:45 pm

What is actually the best poison dials now?
And does it work, since there is ALOT of PC in arena which will kill all your sundials, also there are Purify's, so I keep doubting if I will use this kind of a deck.

I'm still using this one in Plat with fairly good results. I usually play Sundials asap to speed up poison damage so PC isn't so bad. Purify is still a problem, but well it's not like every deck has it and it'd be impossible to create a deck with no weakness.

Plantifant · « **Reply #118 on:** October 23, 2012, 08:08:41 pm »

Quote from: Reid4891 on October 23, 2012, 05:38:47 pm

Quote from: Plantifant on October 23, 2012, 02:41:45 pm
What is actually the best poison dials now?
And does it work, since there is ALOT of PC in arena which will kill all your sundials, also there are Purify's, so I keep doubting if I will use this kind of a deck.

I'm still using this one in Plat with fairly good results. I usually play Sundials asap to speed up poison damage so PC isn't so bad. Purify is still a problem, but well it's not like every deck has it and it'd be impossible to create a deck with no weakness.

Can you post the deck?

Reid4891 · « **Reply #119 on:** October 23, 2012, 09:44:42 pm »

Quote from: Plantifant on October 23, 2012, 08:08:41 pm

Quote from: Reid4891 on October 23, 2012, 05:38:47 pm
Quote from: Plantifant on October 23, 2012, 02:41:45 pm
What is actually the best poison dials now?
And does it work, since there is ALOT of PC in arena which will kill all your sundials, also there are Purify's, so I keep doubting if I will use this kind of a deck.

I'm still using this one in Plat with fairly good results. I usually play Sundials asap to speed up poison damage so PC isn't so bad. Purify is still a problem, but well it's not like every deck has it and it'd be impossible to create a deck with no weakness.

Can you post the deck?

It's the on the first post of this thread.

Author

Reid4891

Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1009902#msg1009902

Sevs

Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1009905#msg1009905

Gandora

Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1009914#msg1009914

Reid4891

Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1009962#msg1009962

UnderneathTheLens

Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1009969#msg1009969

Reid4891

Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1009975#msg1009975

kimham8a

Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1010014#msg1010014

Reid4891

Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1010096#msg1010096

Plantifant

Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1010116#msg1010116

Reid4891

Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1010148#msg1010148

Plantifant

Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1010178#msg1010178

Reid4891

Re: Poison Dials SoSac [FG][Arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=37412.msg1010201#msg1010201