Best Lava Destroyer Rush

[jmdt]

@Bucky Have you considered using dragons? They may in fact speed up the deck. The 1 damage from the gavel isnt much, but the dragons add 8 dmg... that may be worth looking into.

What he'd prolly have to do is replace the 4 phoenix's with 2 minors and 2 dragons or some such.  Due to the nature of the precogs, having the phoenix to cremeate is invaluable.

[bucky1andonly]

And the dragons would have to be unupped if anything, but then getting stuck with dragons in my hand and only 1 cremate to start would mean not being able to play them, where as the phoenixes only require the 1.

[Flash fire]

actually blue priest... if you upgrade the phoenix into minor phoenix you can actually do more damage and have the possibility to play multiple monsters per cremation.

As his deck is he can play about 1.6 monsters per cremation... thats too slow

If he upped the phoenix he can play 2 minors and a golem.... 

If you dont understand what i mean then maybe you shouldnt jump to conclusions to prove me wrong.


Also, how does it slow him down, he can cremate something, then play a cheap phoenix then cremate that and revive it next turn or cremate it twice in a row.

Heres his ultimate start if he upped his phoenix, say he loses the coin toss.
He can then play 1 ball, cremate it, then 1 phoenix, cremate it, then cremate it again... did you catch that? he now has 3 time quanta to cycle through his deck, and 3 earth to build his golem, and because of it cycling effect he will likely throw 3 golems on the field on turn 1. Thats what make minors so important. Of course if he had 2 dragons and a gavel he could cycle into them and possibly deal a 36 on turn 1.


Here is where minor phoenix is so important... you can cremate it twice with just 1 fodder card and its 5  cheaper.

[bucky1andonly]

I can already get 3 golems and a vamp dagger out first turn, so your way is hardly better. 

6 x m.phoenix = 24 dmg
4 x phoenix = 28 dmg

if you want to look at it from the dmg point of view.  fewer creatures in the deck which means i am actually doing more damage per creature.  the precogs make the deck effectively a 24 card deck, and with 16 creatures (6 destroyers, 6 balls, 4 phoenix) plus the 2 vamp daggers, my deck is mostly just good damage all around.  minor phoenixes in this deck would increase the TTW's

[BluePriest]

actually blue priest... if you upgrade the phoenix into minor phoenix you can actually do more damage and have the possibility to play multiple monsters per cremation.

As his deck is he can play about 1.6 monsters per cremation... thats too slow

If he upped the phoenix he can play 2 minors and a golem.... 

If you dont understand what i mean then maybe you shouldnt jump to conclusions to prove me wrong.


Also, how does it slow him down, he can cremate something, then play a cheap phoenix then cremate that and revive it next turn or cremate it twice in a row.

Heres his ultimate start if he upped his phoenix, say he loses the coin toss.
He can then play 1 ball, cremate it, then 1 phoenix, cremate it, then cremate it again... did you catch that? he now has 3 time quanta to cycle through his deck, and 3 earth to build his golem, and because of it cycling effect he will likely throw 3 golems on the field on turn 1. Thats what make minors so important. Of course if he had 2 dragons and a gavel he could cycle into them and possibly deal a 36 on turn 1.


Here is where minor phoenix is so important... you can cremate it twice with just 1 fodder card and its 5  cheaper.

You dont know when to quit do you? no  one here agrees with you. Jmdt is one of the most experienced deck builders on this site. Even he disagrees with you. Your point simply isnt valid due to the fact that you require so many more cards for that combo, requiring more luck, and ultimately slowing down the deck.

btw, what is this deck that you talk about? care to post the deck image?

[Flash fire]

1 phoenix is a cost of 7 . Thats 1 cremation.

2 minor phoenix is a cost of 4  . Thats not even half a cremation and they do more damage.

[xdude]

1 phoenix is a cost of 7 . Thats 1 cremation.

2 minor phoenix is a cost of 4  . Thats not even half a cremation and they do more damage.

You really don't see how that is wrong (except the fact that 1 Cremation is 9 Fire)? Make a deck of 6 Novs, 6 Photons, 6 Sparks, 6 Brimstones and 6 Skeletons. You'll understand then. Attack/Cost ratio means nothing, if the attack is negligible.

[ddevans96]

1 phoenix is a cost of 7 . Thats 1 cremation.

2 minor phoenix is a cost of 4  . Thats not even half a cremation and they do more damage.

2 minor phoenix is also two cards while 1 phoenix is one card.

[funplay]

I am really looking forward to have enough cards upped to try this...actually WITHOUT testing im more in favor of minor phoenix, mainly because i would be afraid that i wouldnt be able to actually put that unupeed phoenix on the field...

BUT: without having played this deck even once, i wont dismiss the unupped phoenix build,because IF this build has enough quanta to actually play phoenix...well, 7 damage is always superior to 4 dam 

[bucky1andonly]

1 card that does 7 dmg
2 cards that do 4 dmg each

here is the reason for why 1 is better than 2
you actually need to have both of the minor phoenixes in your hand to do the 1 more damage that they do.
quanta costs in this deck dont matter because cremation adds 9 fire.
if you draw 2 destroyers, 2 cremations, 1 phoenix, 1 ball lightning, 1 precog, you cremate the BL for the phoenix, cremate the phoenix, play the 2 destroyers and use the precog.  now doing the same thing with minor phoenix yields the exact same results, but on the following turn, youre doing more dmg with just the cards in play, and the next cards to be drawn are irrelevant

[funplay]

1 card that does 7 dmg
2 cards that do 4 dmg each

here is the reason for why 1 is better than 2
you actually need to have both of the minor phoenixes in your hand to do the 1 more damage that they do.
quanta costs in this deck dont matter because cremation adds 9 fire.
if you draw 2 destroyers, 2 cremations, 1 phoenix, 1 ball lightning, 1 precog, you cremate the BL for the phoenix, cremate the phoenix, play the 2 destroyers and use the precog.  now doing the same thing with minor phoenix yields the exact same results, but on the following turn, youre doing more dmg with just the cards in play, and the next cards to be drawn are irrelevant

1. Important note: I will try the unupped variant first, for sure, as you know your deck best, so you are probably right.

2. For your example, you use a probably common, but well usable starting hand...the bad starting hand i had i mind was only 1 cremation, 2 phoenix, 2 destroyer, 1 BL, 1 precog
cremate BL...and THEN there is a major difference, imho...assuming to dont draw cremation with precog, of course
a) with unupped phoenix you have the choice: either destroyer or phoenix...i would probably choose phoenix to play next cremation on him and also for him to draw CC...assuming you choose this:
1st turn 7 dam
2nd turn 7 dam (either phoenix or destroyer, if you draw 2nd cremation) = 14
3rd turn 7+9 plus anything else that might come now = 30

b) with upped phoenix you play both phoenix AND destroyer first turn (exactly 9 fire)
1st turn 4+4+7 dam = 15
2nd turn 4+4+9 dam (with another cremation you could play another creture, if you drew one^^)=  32dam
3rd turn 4+4+9 plus everything else that might come =49 dam

Thats why i argued "unupped phoenix is only good when you can play him"...last note about this: the variant b) has one major weakness, that you already pointed out more than once: it uses one card more...so you have better chances to draw another usable creature/cremation, so dam might be even better with variant a) after 5 turns, as you will probably have another heavy hitter on the tabel...but predicting 5 turns for a deck i never played feels like playing the oracle...one day i will simply try to put this deck together and test ttw for both variants...

[bucky1andonly]

i get a lot of 4 turn wins, i get more 5 turn wins though, and my 6 turn wins are lower than my 5 turn wins