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Offline bucky1andonlyTopic starter

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Re: Best Lava Destroyer Rush (Semi-Permalink)
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2011, 05:32:39 am »
for the record, i called the one guy an idiot because he didnt make much sense, but look at the other guys name, theidioticidiot, wtf did you want me to call him?  but w/e


If any of you have ever played a pillarless deck you would realize that you have a good chance of not drawing what you need.  The precogs help here.  If I draw 2 destroyers, 1 vamp dagger, 2 cremations, 2 precogs, I can't play anything, so I end my turn.  Next turn I draw another destroyer, but now I can play a precog.  And if I happen to draw a spark now I can cremate it and use the other precog as well.  Since when did drawing cards slow down a deck?  Even when screwed over in the initial starting hand, this deck can recover quickly and still manage to get a 4 or 6 turn kill even when nothing is played the first turn.

The phoenix has a power of 7, that is why I use them.  Why use 2 cards to do 8 damage when you can use 1 card to do 7.  This helps thin out the deck even more.  More damage, fewer cards. 

Gavels deal 1 more damage than vamp daggers, yet the vamp daggers heal you.  It's not a tough choice if you have no defense at all.

Lava Destroyer growth is really not all that important since this is a rush deck. 
7, 14, 21, 28, 35, 42 - 6 turns, no growth - total dmg done
7, 16, 27, 40, 55, 72 - 6 turns, growth - total dmg done
Sure it really does seem after 6 turns that increasing the destroyers dmg really might make a difference but
1 destroyer played first turn, 2 more played second turn, which is a very common thing to have happen
7, 16, 23, 30, 37, 44
0, 7, 16, 23, 30, 37   - 116, growth only from earth from cremate, 2 growthed once, total dmg done, not even using the earth from cremate
0, 7, 14, 21, 28, 35
total = 7, 30, 53, 74, 95, 116

assuming the deck is also pillarless, but using earth mark, the first destroyer will be buffed each turn, 1 other one can be buffed twice, from the 2 cremates, or each other one once.
7, 16, 27, 40, 55, 72
0, 7, 16, 23, 30, 37   - 146, growth of 1 for 6 turns, other 2 growth each once from earth from cremate
0, 7, 16, 23, 30, 37
total = 7, 30, 59, 86, 115, 146

So instead of wasting that earth mark just for buffing a destroyer, why not put it to good use.
Remember, the above was comparing growth from earth gained from cremates only to as much growth as possible using the same cards but earth mark.  This is assuming that nothing else except those 3 destroyers are out dealing damage.

Precog use depends on if I draw them or not obviously.  I use them when I get them though.  The deck is effectively a 24 card deck because of them. 

Re: Best Lava Destroyer Rush (Semi-Permalink)
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2011, 11:05:44 am »
so... u r saying that this is the best pillarless lava rush?
um... this: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5228.0.html

Offline jmdt

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Re: Best Lava Destroyer Rush (Semi-Permalink)
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2011, 08:18:57 pm »
so... u r saying that this is the best pillarless lava rush?
um... this: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,5228.0.html
There is no claim that this is an fg deck.  This deck is intended to a fast rush deck and it succeeds quite well at this.

I've been testing this deck, its both very fast and very stable.  4 turn wins versus AI3 are not all too difficult to pull off.  His deck is as good as advertised.  Is it the best, only time will tell and then it will still be left to interpretation.

Re: Best Lava Destroyer Rush (Semi-Permalink)
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2011, 10:06:07 pm »
I respect you, jmdt
however, despite this not claimed as an FG deck, I still don't think it's the best, and I don't know what's my problem with ppl claiming a good thing (yes, I am generalizing it, because it applies to everything) as the best thing... but I just have a problem with it...
and still, plenty of other pillarless lava destroyer rushes are out there (if you count those not posted in forums, it's probably above 100...), and I highly doubt this is the best

Offline jmdt

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Re: Best Lava Destroyer Rush (Semi-Permalink)
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2011, 10:20:51 pm »
I respect you, jmdt
however, despite this not claimed as an FG deck, I still don't think it's the best, and I don't know what's my problem with ppl claiming a good thing (yes, I am generalizing it, because it applies to everything) as the best thing... but I just have a problem with it...
and still, plenty of other pillarless lava destroyer rushes are out there (if you count those not posted in forums, it's probably above 100...), and I highly doubt this is the best
I have a deck that claims to be the fastest speedbow. :)

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Re: Best Lava Destroyer Rush (Semi-Permalink)
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2011, 10:35:54 pm »
I have a deck that claims the be the fastest speedbow. :)
And I drink even though I'm underage. Doesn't make it right.

Offline TheCrazyMango

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Re: Best Lava Destroyer Rush (Semi-Permalink)
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2011, 10:47:41 pm »
I have a deck that claims the be the fastest speedbow. :)
And I drink even though I'm underage. Doesn't make it right.
but its accepted in most of the common community :P jk dont drink underaged
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Re: Best Lava Destroyer Rush (Semi-Permalink)
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2011, 12:31:52 am »
difference between "fastest" and "best"..
fastest is something that's possible
best is something that's not too possible in a game like Elements

Offline BluePriest

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Re: Best Lava Destroyer Rush (Semi-Permalink)
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2011, 12:33:38 am »
How about we try discussing the deck, and not the name... Idk, I know its a crazy idea, but I like it. On topic, looks very stable, especially for a lava rush deck.
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Offline bucky1andonlyTopic starter

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Re: Best Lava Destroyer Rush (Semi-Permalink)
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2011, 12:43:55 am »
Basic logic

A deck that has 24 cards is most likely going to be faster than a 30 card deck.  This is why most 30 card decks beat 60 card decks.  6 cards less really does make a difference.  The odds of drawing something that does damage increases.

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Re: Best Lava Destroyer Rush (Semi-Permalink)
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2011, 02:18:27 am »
Basic logic

A deck that has 24 cards is most likely going to be faster than a 30 card deck.  This is why most 30 card decks beat 60 card decks.  6 cards less really does make a difference.  The odds of drawing something that does damage increases.
Now this is something I'm into discussing.

The big problem with 6 Precognition is that your total possible damage output is decreased. The most damage this deck can ever deal is 28 (Phoenixes) + 54 (Destroyers +2 Growth) + 6 (Dagger) = 88 total damage.

When we take a look at jmdt's new deck, SCEM, we have a total damage possible of 9 (average from Chaos Power) + 6 (Recluse) + 28 (Chargers) + 10 (Graboid) + 4 (Phoenix) + 6 (Crawler) + 4 (Pegasus) + 6 (Dagger) + 7 (Recluse) = 80, not counting Pegasus's Dive ability and the fact that Chaos Power will mostly likely be played on it. And this is comparing to a deck intended to get EMs with much bulkier creatures. If the 3 Heals were replaced with more creatures, it would surely deal more damage than this deck.

If we look at V2, hrmmm's deck, which is actually a Lava Destroyer rush instead of rainbow, we have a possible damage output of 36 (Dragons) + 7 (Gavel) + 54 (Destroyers +2 Growth) + 6 (Phoenixes) = 103. Not including extra Growth you can afford with a Mark of Earth.

This deck deals less damage than a traditional AI3 rainbow or Lava Destroyer rush. It sacrifices durability and, to some degree, damage for speed. Prior to 1.26 (and possible including 1.26), speed was all that mattered. In 1.26, AI3 have more shields and more creature control. Enough shields that you might want to consider Explosion. And enough creature control you might want to consider using creatures that have more than 1 HP. Keep in mind that nothing I say is concrete; it's impossible to know if an Explosion will speed up this deck without actually testing. All in all, I ask that you keep an open mind. 1.26 is different.

Offline BluePriest

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Re: Best Lava Destroyer Rush (Semi-Permalink)
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2011, 03:48:49 am »
The problem you are running into is this, which I realized while optimizing for Da Supa Rush. Which would you rather get? A 5 dmg dealer or a 7 dmg dealer? Would you rather get 2 5 dmg dealers or 1 8 dmg dealer? Of course you would rather have the 7 dmg dealer, but what about the second one? In rushes, it is better to have 1 8 dmg dealer, than 2 5 dmg dealers. why? Well that is very simple. Because, the battle isnt going to last long enough to get all your creatures out. Why put in weak creatures, when you can instead put in precogs, skip the weak creatures, and get to the powerful ones faster? the weak ones, although cost effecient, and even if they DO have a btter atk: :rainbow ratio, they are slower, because you have to draw 2 cards instead of 1.
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