[OUTDATED - v1.27] turns to win study 3.0 (version 1.27)

[pikachufan2164]

Tested on high speed AI.

DEMA: Destroy 'EM All! V2.1 (Gemfinder variant) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,12700.0.html)

Games: 200

Avg TTW: 6.757

Avg. sec/game: 67.415

Wins: 185 (92.50%)

Losses: 15

EMs: 111 (60.00%)

posted by - pikachufan2164

by pikachufan2164

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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 77e 77e 77e 77e 77e 77e 77g 77g 7ai 7ai 7ai 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7tb 7tb 8pm

Score gained: 4979 Score/game: 24.895 Score/min: 22.157 Electrum gained (no spins): 5534 Electrum/game (no spins): 27.670 Electrum/min (no spins): 24.627 Electrum gained (with spins): 6429 Electrum/game (with spins): 32.145 Electrum/min (with spins): 28.609 Time overall (min.): 224.717 Average TTW: 6.757 Average Turns Taken: 7.100 Average TTL: 11.333

ttw 3: 0 ttw 4: 29 ttw 5: 52 ttw 6: 26 ttw 7: 21 ttw 8: 13 ttw 9: 13 ttw 10: 12 ttw 11: 10 ttw 12: 2 ttw 13: 4 ttw 14: 1 ttw 15: 2 ttw 16: 0 ttw 17: 0

It's possible to squeeze out a few EMs by carefully managing your damage output and getting rid of your creatures with Immo on the last turn so that your Dagger has the last hit (to drain enough for an EM).

As with most Immorushes, when this deck faildraws, it's rather disastrous. I felt that I usually had enough surplus quanta with Gemfinders and an Earth mark that the Phoenix might be better off being replaced by a third Graboid, since there was usually little need to Immo the Phoenix for extra quanta, and the surplus quanta is put to better use with another Graboid.

Particular nuisances: Reverse Time, early CC, mass CC, Sundial, shields.

[kirchj33]

Graboid Rush Deck (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10968.0.html)

Games: 200

Avg TTW: 5.888

Avg. sec/game: 55.075

Wins: 196 (98.00%)

Losses: 4

EMs: 19 (9.69%)

posted by - kirchj33

by kirchj33

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6rk 6rk 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 779 779 779 779 779 77a 77a 77a 77a 77g 77g 77g 77g 77g 77g 8ps

Score gained: 3728 Score/game: 18.640 Score/min: 20.307 Electrum gained (no spins): 3823 Electrum/game (no spins): 19.115 Electrum/min (no spins): 20.824 Electrum gained (with spins): 4783 Electrum/game (with spins): 23.915 Electrum/min (with spins): 26.054 Time overall (min.): 183.583 Average TTW: 5.888 Average Turns Taken: 5.965 Average TTL: 9.750

ttw 3: 0 ttw 4: 0 ttw 5: 82 ttw 6: 81 ttw 7: 20 ttw 8: 7 ttw 9: 0 ttw 10: 4 ttw 11: 2 ttw 12: 0 ttw 13: 0 ttw 14: 0 ttw 15: 0 ttw 16: 0 ttw 17: 0

This deck can definitely hit 4 turns, I was thwarted on about 15 such possible occasions due to cc, healing, shields, etc.  If it hits it, it will barely do so on a nearly perfect draw.  Biggest weaknesses include dim shied, sundials/RT spam in terms of recording a low ttw.  Remarkably consistent though as seen by the number of 5's and 6's recorded.

[Jenkar]

Mummy...Get a Life!!!: (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,12849.0.html)

Games: 200

Avg ttw: 7.319

Avg. sec/game: 58.67

Wins: 191

Losses: 9

Ems: 126

Win%: 95.5

posted by - Jenkar

Code: [Select]

6rk 6rk 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 713 713 713 713 713 713 71d 71d 71d 71d 71d 71d 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai

Score gained: 5466 Electrum gained: 6096 Time overall (min.): 186.767 Sec/Turn: 8.016 Score/Min: 29.266 Electrum/Min: 32.64

ttw 3: 0 ttw 4: 0 ttw 5: 8 ttw 6: 59 ttw 7: 55 ttw 8: 36 ttw 9: 13 ttw 10: 12 ttw 11: 5 ttw 12: 2 ttw 13: 0 ttw 14: 0 ttw 15: 1 ttw 16: 0 ttw 17: 0 ttw 18: 0 ttw 19: 0 ttw 20: 0

[willng3]

AI setting on high speed.

Phoenixplosion! Quite Literally! (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,13526.0.html)

Games: 200

Avg ttw:   7.355

Avg. Sec/Game: 78.420

Wins: 186

Losses: 14

Ems: 8

posted by - willng3

by willng3

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7dm 7dm 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7f2 7f2 7f2 7f2 7f2 7f2 7f2 7f2 808 808 808 809 809 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 8pu

Games:   200
   
avg. Sec/Game:   78.420
Sec/Turn:   10.456
Clicks/Game:   26.780
Clicks/Turn:   3.570666667
Score/Min:   11.56847743
Electrum/Min:   11.72149962
   
Time overall (min.):   261.400
Wins:   186
Ems:   8
Losses:   14
Score:   3024
Electrum:   3064
Avg ttw:   7.355

ttw 3:   0
ttw 4:   0
ttw 5:   17
ttw 6:   47
ttw 7:   46
ttw 8:   34
ttw 9:   23
ttw 10:   15
ttw 11:   1
ttw 12:   0
ttw 13:   3
ttw 14:   0
ttw 15:   0
ttw 16:   0
ttw 17:   0
ttw 18:   0
ttw 19:   0
ttw 20:   0
ttw 21:   0
ttw 22:   0
ttw 23:   0
Okay, I've tested a lot of decks over the past year or so, but what happened during the testing of this one just goes beyond words.  The first 50 games of testing resulted in 0 losses.  The next 50 resulted in 5 losses.  The following resulted in 6 losses.  The final 50 games resulted in 3 losses.  So that's a bit odd, but here's what really threw me off:  Before the final set of 50 games, the deck had gotten a total of 7 5TTW games for a 150 game duration.  Which means that my luck factor increased significantly during those last 50 games.  Even more amazing, during the previous set of 50 games, my luck was absolutely deplorable.  I was continuously receiving draws with either no Minor Phoenix or no Fractal and would not draw either of them for several turns.
I'm now convinced that ~Napalm is the true Master of Fire.  I had been testing the deck with very little interaction with her in chat, but the instant that we started conversing for lengthy periods, the entire deck suddenly began to cooperate in my favor tremendously.  If you had asked me before those final 50 games, I would have told you the deck would be lucky to break 7.5TTW; I've never seen anything like this.  The deck's speed decreased a bit since 1.25, but only because the AI is so hell-bent on stalling decks like this into the ground.

But enough about that.  Things to watch out for:
-The Pandemonium/Voodoo Elder is ANNOYING.  I typically bait the AI into using Pande on 3-4 of my Minor Phoenix and then spam the rest I've received from Fractal.  If the AI is low on Pends and , then blow those Pends up ASAP.
-Dune Scorp Elder is likewise annoying, but to a lesser degree.  Sundial chaining slows down your games significantly, but a well timed Explosion can save you some time there.  Otherwise you'll need to use it on Procrastination which is a real headache for the deck's speed.
-Death/Entropy Elder...can get lucky occasionally.  I had one game where I was 1 turn from winning when it suddenly played Bone Wall then Pandemonium and then Plague in that order.  Getting massacred while the opponent has 25 Bone Shields in play is humiliating to say the least.
-Mono Aether.  Not much to say about this one since it's straightforward.  Save Explosions for Dim Shields (or Pillars if it's REALLY low on them at the start).  The AI will Lobo Ash over Minor Phoenix if given the choice, so don't Cremate one if you plan on Rebirthing it next turn.
-The rest are fairly straightforward; I found the Light/Air elder to be the easiest; I probably acquired at least 50% of my 5TTW games from it alone.
Next to be tested is
Fast-Draw Pillarless AI3 Grinder (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,6298.0.html)

[willng3]

Okay minor update time.  Aside from adding the latest two decks to the stats list, I have also incorporated both Win% and EM% into both the unupped and upped lists just because I think it looks pretty.  Testers:  I will not require you to add these stats to your table since it takes me like 2 seconds just to punch the numbers into a calculator.  So don't feel bad if you're feeling lazy or just forget to post it.

More importantly:  testers, make sure that you're calculating your stats correctly.  The only stats we record that removes games from the equation is Turns To Win.  So if you're removing the time spent during losses from the Avg. sec/game field, then that's a no-no.  I've only bothered checking up on this for 3 different decks and found 1 to have made this mistake.  Double check your work and contact me if you have any questions/concerns.

EDIT:  And since we have about 9001 Speedbow variants running around, it would probably be a good idea to make sure that the image matches the deck that you were supposed to be testing.

[kirchj33]

Speedbowj33 - SBJ33 - AI3 Speed Grinder (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30708.0.html)

Games: 50

Avg ttw: 5.91837

Avg. sec/game: 60.48

Wins: 49

Losses: 1

Ems: 6

EM %: 12

by kirchj33

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6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u2 6u2 6u2 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 713 713 745 77g 77g 7ae 7ae 7dq 7gm 7jr 7mu 7qb 7tb 7tb 80g 8pj

Score gained: 1011 Electrum gained: 1271 Time overall (min.): 50.14 IG Score Efficiency: 1203.571 TSE (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21923.msg300098#msg300098): 1047.668 ttw 3: 0 ttw 4: 0 ttw 5: 20 ttw 6: 20 ttw 7: 4 ttw 8: 3 ttw 9: 2 ttw 10: 0 ttw 11: 0 ttw 12: 0 ttw 13: 0 ttw 14: 0 ttw 15: 0 ttw 16: 0 ttw 17: 0 ttw 18: 0 ttw 19: 0 ttw 20: 0

Submitting this deck for testing.

[MatrimKK]

Hand Pewper / Icwutudidthar - PSN timebow!!! (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30768.0.html)

Games: 50

Avg ttw: 6.1277

Avg. sec/game: 66.10

Wins: 47

Losses: 3

Ems: 8

EM %: 16

by MatrimKK

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6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u5 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 713 745 77g 77g 7an 7an 7dq 7gm 7jr 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qe 7tf 80b 8ps

Score gained: 927 Electrum gained: 1197 Time overall (min.): 55.08 IG Score Efficiency: 1009.74 TSE (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21923.msg300098#msg300098): 888.74 ttw 3: 0 ttw 4: 8 ttw 5: 12 ttw 6: 10 ttw 7: 8 ttw 8: 4 ttw 9: 3 ttw 10: 1 ttw 11: 1 ttw 12: 0 ttw 13: 0 ttw 14: 0 ttw 15: 0 ttw 16: 0 ttw 17: 0 ttw 18: 0 ttw 19: 0 ttw 20: 0

Submitting this deck for testing.

[pikachufan2164]

Kirchj asked me to run his data through my spreadsheets.

Note to Will: Kirchj edited his previous post instead of making a new one; see above.

[Gandora]

I know this thread is old, but I was wondering if there's a new thread with a similar list?
Or is such a study still going on somewhere? I couldn't find anything similar with the search function

by the way, you all made a great and awesome job here  *thumbs up*

[Acsabi44]

I know this thread is old, but I was wondering if there's a new thread with a similar list?
Or is such a study still going on somewhere? I couldn't find anything similar with the search function

by the way, you all made a great and awesome job here  *thumbs up*

No point anymore.
The main usage of theese stats was to determine which is the best (aka fastest) deck to farm AI3 with (back then, AI3 had the highest score/time ratio), but nowdays next to nobody farms AI3 anymore, not with Arena around.
But making a similar study for Arena is pointless cause the decks there are very inhomogenous and rapidly changing. You just grab a good arenafarmer and go.

[Gandora]

I know this thread is old, but I was wondering if there's a new thread with a similar list?
Or is such a study still going on somewhere? I couldn't find anything similar with the search function

by the way, you all made a great and awesome job here  *thumbs up*

No point anymore.
The main usage of theese stats was to determine which is the best (aka fastest) deck to farm AI3 with (back then, AI3 had the highest score/time ratio), but nowdays next to nobody farms AI3 anymore, not with Arena around.
But making a similar study for Arena is pointless cause the decks there are very inhomogenous and rapidly changing. You just grab a good arenafarmer and go.

I see. Good point. Thanks for answer

[willng3]

I'd like to clarify something here:  The point of doing TTW Studies from the very beginning was NOT to assemble a list of fast grinding decks with the sole purpose of finding which one nets you the most score/electrum for your time spent.  Here is a brief history of the Studies from the beginning:

1)  Study was started as an attempt to compile a list of the fastest decks in the game.
2)  Community interest increased, additional testers were added.
3)  Community involvement/participation increased, meaning that additional decks were suggested and tested.
4)  The system for testing was refined slightly, more "official" testers were added.
5)  The present.

Because people were interested in seeing how their own decks fared in terms of speed against the others listed here, more community suggestions were taken in.  As such, decks such as USEM and TADAbow made their way here because they were fast decks commonly used by the community and had also had stats prerecorded which showed they very well might deserve a place here.  As I stated earlier in this thread, although we take community suggestions into account, our main focus here is speed in terms of turns to win with statistics such as electrum/score gained per hour being a bonus.

So to answer your questions Gandora:
1)  No, a new thread does not exist.  Too much of the previous TTW team has found other things to do with their time, and doing a lot of the work involved in these studies alone burned me out (lack of community appreciation/involvement also indicated to me that continuing with this work was not as useful as it once had been, and thus not worth my time).
2)  I have heard others consider starting a 4th TTW Study, but have not heard anything conclusive beyond those brief sparks of inspiration.  However, as Acsabi alluded to, a 4th Study is likely not going to see the same amount of community involvement or glory for the simple reason that people tended to use this study for the purpose of grinding AI3, even if that wasn't its primary purpose.