Game Mechanics (i.e. The Expanded Rules)

[smuglapse]

Further detail: Mutants

Any targeted creature can be Mutated into -- a random Mutant.

Mutants (and Fate Eggs) can become any creature except  Chimera, Fate Egg, Devonian Dragon, Scarab, and Immortal.

Mutants get the benefit of a single Chaos Power in addition to their normal stats, and they gain a random skill (I don't have the list handy) with an activation cost (if relevant) of 1 or 2 quanta of the creature's element.

I have 'mutation' under status effects, because like other status effects it can be transferred to copies (TU and Deja Vu) via transformations.
Also Chaos Power is 1-5 for both stats, mutants gain 0-4.

EDIT to OP:  Made some corrections, added invulnerable status effect, and info about antimatter, TU, and deja vu.

[jmizzle7]

Actually, all active skills are those skills that appear as text below your creature. There are different types of active skills, but calling them all active skills of different types is much more uniform than calling them "manually activated" or "automatically triggered." In reality, the code (and therefore the game) treats all active skills the same with regard to any effect or skill that affects active skills (Lobotomize, Liquid Shadow, Butterfly Effect, etc.), so calling active skill types by different names is confusing to players, especially the new ones.

Calling active skills by other names and allowing for ambiguity only leads to more confusion. Clearly laying out exact definitions of active skills and passive skills is much more helpful than inventing more terms with longer names. This would only create ambiguity and confusion.

[smuglapse]

so calling active skill types by different names is confusing to players, especially the new ones.

Calling something active that is clearly passive is also confusing.

Evidence:

You need to understand the differences between 'passive' active abilities and just passive status.

passive active abilities are the ones that does not require triggering, but usually auto-triggers when a creature attacks, etc.

for example, deathstalker's deadly poison is a passive active ability that activates when deathstalker attacks.

passives, however, are the status that could be found when u put the mouse cursor on a creature and wait for the status window to pop up. graboid has 'burrowed' passive, devourer has 'devourer' passive, airborne creatures have 'airborne' passive, etc.
a mutant keeps the passive of the creature that they currently look like. for example, a mutant devourer, regardless of whatever ability it has, retains the devourer's original 'devourer' passive, and therefore takes one quantum from the opponent and transfer it as a darkness quantum to you.

an easy way to distinguish passive (or active) active abilities from passives is lobotomization. all passive active abilities can be loboed, while passives are never loboed. the only way to remove passive, at the moment, is to remove airborne passive by web ability.

@GG: Maybe you should word it more clearly. Call one of them "passive skills" (non-activatable), and the other "passive abilities" (Devourer, Airborne, etc).

Using the above example, a creature with Link (active) and Vampirism (passive) could go on the same creature. Am I getting this right as far as passive/active?

Graboids are burrowed and devourers still drain quanta. This is because they're passive abilities. Immaterial is an active ability: therefore, it's replaced with another one.

Err, no, it's not an active ability. It's a status.

Err, no, Immaterial is an active ability in this case. It is still displayed under the card after you played it. It is an active ability that is used as soon as the card is put into play. That is why you can't give phase dragons (or immortals, or morning stars) bioluminescence with luciferin, they already have an ability.  It's just like the momentum of a charger for example.

Fine. It's an ability. But a passive one.

Does quanta generation not count as a passive ability?  Damselfly is listed as having air beneath the card, but the new lovely pop-up window doesn't list it.

Just a further note on Classifications:

Currently a creature has:
Statistics (Attack Rating | Defense Rating)
Element (One of the 12)
Cost (relative to it's Statistics)
Active Ability (Click this creature to cause ability to happen)
Passive Ability (At the end of your turn, your creature does this)
Status (Your creature is frozen/time bubbled/poisoned)

What I meant was making momentum, bioluminescence, and adrenaline all passive, since adrenaline cant be removed.
bioluminescence I feel is more passive for RoL than momentum for chargers, which is why i feel that if momentum cant be removed, niether should bioluminescence. Am I making sense? It makes sense in my head, but I dont think im saying it right.

[Hyroen]

There should be an end it all thread to fully clarify the active-passive skill/ability debate. This seems to be headed to .

On another note, good work smuglapse! Impressive stuff. I'll be seeing if anything is missing as time goes by.

[jmizzle7]

so calling active skill types by different names is confusing to players, especially the new ones.

Calling something active that is clearly passive is also confusing.

Evidence:

You need to understand the differences between 'passive' active abilities and just passive status.

passive active abilities are the ones that does not require triggering, but usually auto-triggers when a creature attacks, etc.

for example, deathstalker's deadly poison is a passive active ability that activates when deathstalker attacks.

passives, however, are the status that could be found when u put the mouse cursor on a creature and wait for the status window to pop up. graboid has 'burrowed' passive, devourer has 'devourer' passive, airborne creatures have 'airborne' passive, etc.
a mutant keeps the passive of the creature that they currently look like. for example, a mutant devourer, regardless of whatever ability it has, retains the devourer's original 'devourer' passive, and therefore takes one quantum from the opponent and transfer it as a darkness quantum to you.

an easy way to distinguish passive (or active) active abilities from passives is lobotomization. all passive active abilities can be loboed, while passives are never loboed. the only way to remove passive, at the moment, is to remove airborne passive by web ability.

@GG: Maybe you should word it more clearly. Call one of them "passive skills" (non-activatable), and the other "passive abilities" (Devourer, Airborne, etc).

Using the above example, a creature with Link (active) and Vampirism (passive) could go on the same creature. Am I getting this right as far as passive/active?

Graboids are burrowed and devourers still drain quanta. This is because they're passive abilities. Immaterial is an active ability: therefore, it's replaced with another one.

Err, no, it's not an active ability. It's a status.

Err, no, Immaterial is an active ability in this case. It is still displayed under the card after you played it. It is an active ability that is used as soon as the card is put into play. That is why you can't give phase dragons (or immortals, or morning stars) bioluminescence with luciferin, they already have an ability.  It's just like the momentum of a charger for example.

Fine. It's an ability. But a passive one.

Does quanta generation not count as a passive ability?  Damselfly is listed as having air beneath the card, but the new lovely pop-up window doesn't list it.

Just a further note on Classifications:

Currently a creature has:
Statistics (Attack Rating | Defense Rating)
Element (One of the 12)
Cost (relative to it's Statistics)
Active Ability (Click this creature to cause ability to happen)
Passive Ability (At the end of your turn, your creature does this)
Status (Your creature is frozen/time bubbled/poisoned)

What I meant was making momentum, bioluminescence, and adrenaline all passive, since adrenaline cant be removed.
bioluminescence I feel is more passive for RoL than momentum for chargers, which is why i feel that if momentum cant be removed, niether should bioluminescence. Am I making sense? It makes sense in my head, but I dont think im saying it right.

I don't call any of those passive, because they aren't passive. In fact, examples like those above are the reason why we have to have a systemized name for these skills instead of calling them whatever we think they should be called. The examples you provided are incorrect and misinformed, and here is why:

• girlsgeneration refers to active skills and "passive active" skills..... huh? How can a skill be both passive and active? Furthermore, discriminating between a passive skill and a "passive active" skill creates all kinds of headaches, especially when the word "status" is brought into the equation. Statuses are not skills. Take, for example, the card Liquid Shadow. It replaces the creature's current active skill with 'vampire' and infects the creature. 'Vampire' is an active skill, and infection is a status. It is important to distinguish between these terms clearly to avoid confusion.
• I already corrected Kuross later in the thread from which you quoted.
• Coinich kind of answered his own question. Quantum generation skills (Air, Earth, Bioluminescence, Incandescence, etc.) are active skills, not passive. Hence, they are listed as active skills, and not listed as passive skills.
• Lanidrak is correct on the classifications, but not their definitions. Active skills that require activation during your turn (i.e. clicking on the creature) are only part of the whole active skill classification. His definition for passive only serves to define yet another subset of active skills, while still falling short of the entire group (Phoenix doesn't fall under either definition). Actives are, simply put, the skill that appears as text under a creature icon while it is in play.
• BluePriest is confusing skills with statuses. Adrenaline is not an active skill but a status, therefore it cannot be removed by lobotomizing effects. Bioluminescence, on the other hand, is an active skill, and thus can be removed by lobotomizing effects. Momentum is a status, not an active skill, but Zanz created an exception that allows for lobotomizing effects to remove momentum, so there can be a countermeasure against momentum.

[Nume]

I dont think he was trying to say that the people he quoted were right, but rather that it showed how many people are confused by the current system. Especially the whole passive active thing. People get confused because they assume abilities such as bioluminescence and phoenix are passives, since in many other games any ability that you dont have to activate or use yourself is considered a passive. Thus when they see abilities that are actually passives, it makes the whole system seem confusing. Smuglapse is suggesting that a different term should be used for active abilities since people who dont know about passives or dont understand all the workings of the game assume that any ability you dont have to use yourself is a passive, not an active. If that makes any sense...
Edit: Also just to add, I think that the most logical name for the abilities would be like he said to have any ability which is currently classified as active and appears under the cards name be considered a "primary" ability, while any that are currently classified as passive be changed to "secondary" abilities. This would be clear and concise and would eliminate a lot of the confusion.

[smuglapse]

I dont think he was trying to say that the people he quoted were right, but rather that it showed how many people are confused by the current system. Especially the whole passive active thing. People get confused because they assume abilities such as bioluminescence and phoenix are passives, since in many other games any ability that you dont have to activate or use yourself is considered a passive. Thus when they see abilities that are actually passives, it makes the whole system seem confusing. Smuglapse is suggesting that a different term should be used for active abilities since people who dont know about passives or dont understand all the workings of the game assume that any ability you dont have to use yourself is a passive, not an active. If that makes any sense...
Edit: Also just to add, I think that the most logical name for the abilities would be like he said to have any ability which is currently classified as active and appears under the cards name be considered a "primary" ability, while any that are currently classified as passive be changed to "secondary" abilities. This would be clear and concise and would eliminate a lot of the confusion.

Exactly.  And it is not just the fact that the term may be used in many other games... it is the standard English definition of the word.  The terms active and passive are not the invention of Elements the game and have a meaning in of themselves and shouldn't be used as arbitrary place-holding names like Bob or Tom.  If Otyugh was not named Otyugh but instead "Flying No-Mouth Tree" players would be confused as to why it has the function it does.

Primary and secondary make more sense, but the words "passive skills" are already printed in game.  Just because the word passive is used doesn't mean that its opposite has to be used.  A Primary skill (or ability, they mean the same thing) identifies the text under the creature and passive skills are listed in the info box.  The un-upgraded Giant Frog is not Tiny Frog, it's Horned Frog--people are not confused by this.

[jmizzle7]

I don't like "primary" and "secondary", because even that allows for confusion. New players, after viewing a card with both a primary and a secondary skill, will want to know how and when they could use the secondary skill if they wanted to. Primary and secondary do not indicate gameplay function, while active and passive are more clear. Active means the skill is dynamic, while passive means that the skill is static. It is like the difference between verbs ser and estar in Spanish. The former is more of a static "to be", while the latter is a more dynamic "to be". You use ser to say something like, "I am a man," something that holds permanence. You use estar to say something like, "I am playing Elements," or, "I was over there," something that is temporary and/or dynamic.

[Nume]

Yes but by that definition, how could a skill like the Devourer's be considered a static effect, while a skill like phoenix is considered active?

[smuglapse]

I think ultimately the best description is skill (for active skill) and traits, or passive effects (for passive skills).  Since passive skills are already in-game, I'm OK with that terminology, however using the term active just because it is the opposite is wrong, because it is implying something that does not happen.  And that is what leads to confusion.

Primary, main, principal, major, or exposed are all better than active.

If you call scavenger, phoenix, light, fire, air, earth, venom, or vampire active you might as well call them Astley.

[jmizzle7]

I don't know where you got the idea that active skills are called active just because active is the antonym of passive. Absolutely incorrect. In fact, passive skills didn't even exist as a legitimate type until way, way after the active skill set was firmly established. So to say that the original type was coined after the latter was typified doesn't make sense at all.

The devourer skill is one of the most controversial, because it pretty much is an active skill, except for two glaring details: you cannot remove the devourer passive skill, and it is innate to the creature (retained despite mutant status). The original argument in Elements regarding creature skills was that creatures could not have more than one skill. Devourer was considered an exception for a long while until Zanz commented, saying that Devourer's passive skill could not be an active skill, because then it would not have the Burrow skill. He then stated that creatures could not have more than one active skill, and that he gave Devourer its passive skill as a way for a creature to hold more than one skill at a time. A few months later, Zanz came up with more passive skills and a way to identify which creatures had which passive skills.

Scavenger, Phoenix, Light, Fire, Air, Earth, Venom, and Vampire are all non-innate skills that are removable by lobotomizing effects. They are active in the sense that they are trigger-ready, caused by an event (creature death, creature action, successful attack, etc.). Mummy's passive skill actually used to be an active skill, until Zanz made it a passive skill in order to be lobo-proof.

Primary, main, principal, major, or exposed all hint that you could possibly activate a creature's passive skill instead of its active. Passive means that you can't touch it - it's just there and it will happen. Active means that something is required for the skill to happen.

[smuglapse]

They are active in the sense that they are trigger-ready, caused by an event (creature death, creature action, successful attack, etc.). Mummy's passive skill actually used to be an active skill, until Zanz made it a passive skill in order to be lobo-proof.

Primary, main, principal, major, or exposed all hint that you could possibly activate a creature's passive skill instead of its active. Passive means that you can't touch it - it's just there and it will happen. Active means that something is required for the skill to happen.

I can activate a creature's passive skill instead of its active.  I can reverse time a mummy and I can cause damage to a voodoo doll so that it reflects on the opponent.  At this point you are completely ignoring obvious facts just to support your argument.  I'm sorry if you've told 1000 newbies that something is called "active skill" and you don't want to be wrong in that aspect, but things change and if there is a logical reason people understand.  You are arguing for the illogical just to keep the definition that you are used to.