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Offline PellaTopic starter

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[OUTDATED] The Return of FGei (for v1.32x) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49887.msg1080637#msg1080637
« on: June 16, 2013, 05:53:43 pm »
FGei is back!

If you already know what FGei is, you may skip to the next paragraph.  If you don't know what FGei is, here's the TL;DR version:  False God Efficiency Index is a deck statistic that tells how much :electrum a player can expect to win per hour when using the deck against False Gods.  For a more in-depth explanation, click here.

All of the Community's FGei statistics are pre-1.32, which means that they don't account for Shards being in-element, among other things.  Let's fix that, shall we?

If you wish to participate, here's how:
1)
Play a deck 100 or more times against False Gods.  That means 100 duels total, not 100 duels for each FG.  And no, you don't have to do all of them in one testing session.  ;)
2) Collect statistics using the method you like best.  Regardless of the method you choose, please collect ALL of the data points requested. (See the spoiler below.)
- OpenOffice users may wish to use STATMASTA™realtec.
- All players are welcome to use the newly created EtG FGei 1.32x Google Docs sheet.  Just "Duplicate" the TEMPLATE tab, rename the new tab to the name of the deck you're testing, and go!
- Pen & paper work, too.  Whatever floats your boat.
Spoiler for Requested data points, plus advice for collecting them:
PER DECK:
  • deck name
  • deck code
  • link to deck's thread - If the deck does not have a thread, encourage the deck author to create one, or acquire the permission of said author to make a thread for her/him. If you are the deck author, make a thread.
PER FALSE GOD:
  • number of wins
  • number of turns for each win (totaled) *
  • amount of time for each win, in seconds (totaled) *
  • amount of electrum won for each non-EM win (totaled) * ... This should be the amount BEFORE spinning the "slot machine".
  • amount of electrum won for each EM win (totaled) * ... This should be the amount BEFORE spinning the "slot machine".
  • number of losses
  • number of turns for each loss (totaled) *
  • amount of time for each loss, in seconds (totaled) *
  • number of skips
  • number of EMs
  • number of cards won from "slot machine"
* For the items marked "(totaled)", the easiest way to collect this information is to use one of the spreadsheet methods.  The first time you enter a number in one of these cells, type "=#" (without the quotes), where # = the number you're entering.  This will create a formula in that cell.  Every time you need to enter another number in that cell, press F2 to place your cursor at the end of the formula, then type "+#" (without the quotes).  The spreadsheet will do the math for you.  Yay!
3) Post your results in this thread.  Alternatively, enter your results on the GDocs sheet, then post in this thread that you have done so.

Pella (with the assistance of anyone willing) will compile the posted results to create an FGei for each deck.  The most accurate results require a minimum of 10 duels against each FG, with at least 100 duels submitted by each of 3 or more testers.  Half-decent approximations require a minimum of 3 duels against each FG.  We don't expect one person to collect that much data; ideally, several people will test one deck and we will compile the results into an accurate FGei for that deck.

To achieve the above "ideal" condition, players may feel free to collaborate in this thread.  Discuss which decks you'd like to see tested, then work together to test them.  If wanted/needed, we can post a poll for that, though I'd consider that a last resort.

Have questions?  Ask away!

Q & A
Q:
  Which of the several FGei statistics is represented by "FGei" in the GDocs spreadsheet?  Does this mean FGei(c), FGei(cn), or what?
A:  This refers to FGei(cn).  The original FGei thread mentioned that many people use the term FGei to mean FGei(cn).  I used this convention to avoid confusing people who are unfamiliar with the designations in parentheses.

Q:  I'm using the GDocs spreadsheet, and I don't see the "Testing" menu.
A:  The "Testing" menu is visible only to users who are logged in to a Google account while accessing the spreadsheet.  You have three options:
      1)  Log in to a Google account you already have when accessing the GDocs spreadsheet.  If you choose not to do this, see #2.
      2)  Create a new Google account that you use just for accessing the GDocs spreadsheet.  If you choose not to do this, see #3.
      3)  At the end of each data entry session, find someone who has access to the "Testing" menu and ask that person to run the two scripts on the appropriate sheet.  We recommend the following two methods for finding someone to ask.  Try one or both.
            a)  Within the GDocs spreadsheet, open the chat window in the top right corner of the screen, just below the "Comments" and "Share" buttons.  Click on "X other viewer(s)", where X represents the number of people other than yourself currently viewing the GDocs spreadsheet.  If this button reads, "No other viewers" or is absent, you currently are the only individual with the GDocs spreadsheet open.
            b)  Go to Elements Chat.

Q:  What constants does the GDocs spreadsheet use in its calculations?
A:  The GDocs spreadsheet does not use the same constants as the STATMASTA™realtec because most of those figures are outdated.
Card Value = 1,177 ... This is an average of the values of all upgraded cards within Elements: the Game, excluding Marks and Nymphs.
Card Drop Rate = 45.657586% ... This is a figure Pella calculated, based on figures used in the original FGei calculation.  Unfortunately, Pella no longer remembers which pre-1.32 data he used or what calculations he performed on them to arrive at this figure.  He does remember that the entire process was more complex than he would have liked, and it took him about 30 minutes to do the whole thing.
Skip Time = 5 seconds ... Most skips are essentially 0 seconds, while some skips occur up to a minute or more into the duel, depending on your draw, AI draw, cards played, your mood, etc.  Five seconds seemed like a reasonable average, especially since the vast majority of skips are autoskips.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 04:24:14 am by ColorlessGreen »
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Offline PellaTopic starter

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Re: The Return of FGei (for v1.32x) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49887.msg1080638#msg1080638
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2013, 05:53:58 pm »
Decks that need to be tested:
Last updated:  13:18 UTC  26Aug2013


Listed below are the decks that the Community wishes to have tested.  If you wish to help but don't know where to start, pick one of these.

If you wish to add a deck to this list, create a post in this thread that includes a link to the thread that contains the deck.  If the deck does not have a thread, encourage the deck author to create one, or acquire the permission of said author to make a thread for her/him. If you are the deck author, make a thread.

Community etiquette suggests that an individual who requests testing of a particular deck also is willing to test that deck him/herself.  ;)

In the reported statistics below, FGei's are rated (NEW), (Tentative), (Unconfirmed), or CONFIRMED!!.  The first three ratings indicate that the deck needs more data before the FGei can be considered accurate.
Spoiler for legend:
(NEW) means fewer than 3 duels per FG have been reported.  This FGei should not be trusted at all.
(Tentative) means at least 3 but fewer than 10 duels per FG have been reported.  This FGei is an estimate that can change significantly while more data are being collected.
(Unconfirmed) means fewer than 3 individuals have submitted 100 or more duels.  This FGei is empirical for the one or two people who have tested it.  To be considered accurate, at least 3 people each must submit data for 100 or more duels.
CONFIRMED!! means at least 10 duels have been reported for each FG, and at least 3 people each submitted data from 100 or more duels.  This FGei has a high degree of accuracy, and it requires no further testing.  (More is better, and further testing will help the FGei to be more accurate.  The testing time probably will be invested better by testing other decks that do not have this rating yet.)

The Brave Malignant Ball That Could by Keeps
FGei: 9,187 (NEW)  W: 69  L: 42  Win rate: 62.16%  Win rate (normalized): 58.96%  TTW: 12.83  EM: 51  EM rate: 73.91%
Spoiler for deck:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 710 710 710 710 710 710 71c 71c 71c 71c 71u 71u 71u 71u 7dm 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7hi 7hi 7hi 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 809 809 809 809 8po

Don't Cut Yourself by mesaprotector, submitted by ??????????
FGei: unk (NEW)  W: 4  L: 10  Win rate: 28.57%  Win rate (normalized): 30.77%  TTW: 10.00  EM: 0  EM rate: 0%
Spoiler for deck:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 74g 778 778 778 778 778 778 786 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7n9 7nq 7q5 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 80i 8pj

Firecell FG OTK (unupped version) by Chapuz, submitted by ??????????
FGei: unk (NEW)  W: 21  L: 74  Win rate: 22.11%  Win rate (normalized): 21.73%  TTW: 18.00  EM: 0  EM rate: 0%
Spoiler for deck:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 52k 52s 52s 542 542 560 5f8 5f8 5ia 5op 5rl 5rl 5rl 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 622 8pu

Limitless Speed FG OTK (slim version) by Chapuz
NO TESTING DATA REPORTED YET
Spoiler for deck:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 55q 5mq 5mq 5mq 5op 5t2 5t2 5t2 5t2 61r 61r 61r 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 7dr 7dr 7jq 7q5 7q5 7q5 8pu

The Melancholy Death of Chrysaora FG OTK by charles_xavier
NO TESTING DATA REPORTED YET
Spoiler for deck:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5i5 5i5 5i5 5i5 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 71b 71b 71b 71b 71c 71c 71c 71u 71u 71u 71u 71u 71u 7hi 7hi 7hi 8pp

New Old Times FG OTK (a.k.a. SoP/Hope) (semi-upped version) by Chapuz
NO TESTING DATA REPORTED YET
Spoiler for deck:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5j2 5j2 5j2 5lk 5lk 5lk 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61u 61u 622 622 622 622 626 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 8pp

Poison Dials SoSac (32-card version) by Sevs, submitted by rob77dp
FGei: 8,106 (Tentative)  W: 124  L: 115  Win rate: 51.88%  Win rate (normalized): 50.27%  TTW: 15.41  EM: 84  EM rate: 67.74%
Spoiler for deck:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
710 710 710 710 710 710 710 718 718 718 718 718 718 71a 71a 71a 71u 71u 71u 71u 71u 71u 7km 7km 7km 7km 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 8pq

Poison Dials (35-card version) by glennfoo, submitted by Pella
FGei: 6,276 (Tentative)  W: 113  L: 99  Win rate: 53.30%  Win rate (normalized): 48.72%  TTW: 16.53  EM: 68  EM rate: 60.18%
Spoiler for deck:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
710 710 710 710 710 718 718 718 718 718 718 71a 71a 71a 71u 71u 71u 71u 71u 71u 72i 72i 72i 72i 7km 7km 7km 7km 7km 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 8pq

RoL/Hope by Krathos, submitted by Submachine
FGei: 4,200 (NEW)  W: 44  L: 56  Win rate: 44.00%  Win rate (normalized): 41.79%  TTW: 14.48  EM: 1  EM rate: 2.27%
Spoiler for deck:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5lk 5lk 5lk 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jq 7jq 7k2 7k4 808 808 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 8pu

Swallow by SnoWeb, submitted by andretimpa
FGei: 7,596 (NEW)  W: 39  L: 62  Win rate: 38.61%  Win rate (normalized): 39.03%  TTW: 17.95  EM: 25  EM rate: 64.10%
Spoiler for deck:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
744 744 744 744 744 744 744 744 744 74b 74b 74b 74b 74b 74d 74d 752 752 752 752 75m 75m 75m 7gq 7gq 7h0 7h0 7hi 7hi 7hi 8pp

Voodoo Bravery by eaglgenes101, submitted by CuCN
FGei: 9,094 (Tentative)  W: 112  L: 157  Win rate: 41.64%  Win rate (normalized): 42.47%  TTW: 8.36  EM: 5  EM rate: 4.46%
Spoiler for deck:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 74d 74d 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7tg 7tg 80b 80b 80b 80b 8pu

Voodoo Bravery (Nova) by eaglgenes101, modified & submitted by Zso_Zso, further testing by ElementalDearWatson
FGei: 6,796 (Unconfirmed)  W: 212  L: 294  Win rate: 41.90%  Win rate (normalized): 40.19%  TTW: 8.86  EM: 19  EM rate: 8.96%
Spoiler for deck:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 74d 74d 74d 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7tg 7tg 7tg 808 808 808 808 80b 80b 80b 8po
« Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 05:22:34 pm by serprex »
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Offline Jenkar

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Re: The Return of FGei https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49887.msg1080658#msg1080658
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2013, 06:49:57 pm »
What decks?
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Offline PellaTopic starter

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Re: The Return of FGei https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49887.msg1080661#msg1080661
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2013, 06:57:02 pm »
What decks?
Discuss which decks you'd like to see tested
In other words, I don't want to dictate decks.  I want the Community to decide which decks should be tested.  That's the only way the FGei numbers become relevant to the Community.
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Offline Dm

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Re: The Return of FGei https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49887.msg1080666#msg1080666
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2013, 07:13:26 pm »
We should prolly start with the basics.

Poison Dials already has FGei, but for the sake of doing it, we should prolly re-do said stats if anyone is up for it, or if not, at least add it up there. (Re-doing is pretty much a must, though -- Almost 1 year and 3 months since it was posted?)

New Old Times FG OTK A.K.A SoP/Hope is also a deck that comes into mind, and I just find it interesting.

For those of you that are interested in helping out the newer ones, we also could have a semi-upped/un-upped section where we test the un-upped variants or un-upped FG farming decks.

We should most likely and most obviously start off from Limitless Speed -- Since it's the most used "un-upped" FG deck we should probably do it. I am not including the upped variant up there because it probably pales in comparison, but it could also be tested. (Also, since chapuz made like 20 versions of limitless speed we should probably just FGei the slim one, because it's the one he recommends after all. No need to test all of them.) Further on, the FGei there is kinda outdated and still has some n.a data.

100% un-upped firecell should be tested for the hell of it. I hold the same idea in relation to the upped deck as I do with Limitless speed, but it could also be tested.

On a side note, many thanks for bringing this back, Pella.

Offline Leodip

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Re: The Return of FGei https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49887.msg1080674#msg1080674
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2013, 07:37:38 pm »
We should prolly start with the basics.

Poison Dials already has FGei, but for the sake of doing it, we should prolly re-do said stats if anyone is up for it, or if not, at least add it up there. (Re-doing is pretty much a must, though -- Almost 1 year and 3 months since it was posted?)

New Old Times FG OTK A.K.A SoP/Hope is also a deck that comes into mind, and I just find it interesting.

For those of you that are interested in helping out the newer ones, we also could have a semi-upped/un-upped section where we test the un-upped variants or un-upped FG farming decks.

We should most likely and most obviously start off from Limitless Speed -- Since it's the most used "un-upped" FG deck we should probably do it. I am not including the upped variant up there because it probably pales in comparison, but it could also be tested. (Also, since chapuz made like 20 versions of limitless speed we should probably just FGei the slim one, because it's the one he recommends after all. No need to test all of them.) Further on, the FGei there is kinda outdated and still has some n.a data.

100% un-upped firecell should be tested for the hell of it. I hold the same idea in relation to the upped deck as I do with Limitless speed, but it could also be tested.

On a side note, many thanks for bringing this back, Pella.
Was about to say the same exact thing.
BTW, I think that you should give, for example, FGa and FGb to PlayerA, FGc and FGd to PlayerB and so on. With 10 tests for each FG, players will say "I'm willing to test 1/2/3 FGs". With the Trainer you can freely test what you want.

Offline ElementalDearWatson

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Re: The Return of FGei https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49887.msg1080681#msg1080681
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2013, 08:19:17 pm »
I can't tell what information has been requested (possibly due to the very small amount of sleep I've had over the last few days), but I've been collecting statistics for Sh'Kar's Revenge for a while now and am happy to share.

First, the exact deck I'm talking about:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 74d 74d 74d 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7tg 7tg 7tg 808 808 808 808 80b 80b 80b 8po


And the stats:

False God            Wins    Losses   EMs   Total    % Won[/b]

Akebono              9         8            1        17       53%
Chaos Lord      Skip                                   
Dark Matter     Skip                                 
Decay                 5          8            1        13       63%
Destiny            Skip                               
Divine Glory        2          4            0         6        33%
Dream Catcher   6          5            0         11      55%
Elidnis                5          4            1          9        56%
Eternal Phoenix  6         8            0          14      43%
Ferox                  8         8            0          16      50%
Fire Queen         4          6           1           10      40%
Gemini                3         10           0          13      23%
Graviton             1         10           0          11      09%
Hecate               3         8             0          11       27%
Hermes              3         6             0          9        33%
Incarnate           7         7            2           14      50%
Jezebel               6         5           1            11     55%
Lionheart           6          6            0           12     50%
Miracle               6          9            0           15     40%
Morte                 15       8             0           25     60%
Neptune            10       5             1           15      67%
Obliterator         6        5              0           11      55%
Octane               5        3              0           8        63%
Osiris                 0        7               0           7        0%
Paradox             6        7               0          13       46%
Rainbow            11       5              4          16       69%
Scorpio             15        6              0           21      71%
Seism -           Skip                                 
Serket              10        4              2           14      71%

So, from these meagre statistics themselves, it seems that the deck works best against Scorpio and Serket and worst, of those that aren't auto-skips, against Osiris.  For EMs, it's best against Rainbow.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 08:21:57 pm by ElementalDearWatson »

Offline PellaTopic starter

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Re: The Return of FGei https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49887.msg1080753#msg1080753
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2013, 02:42:06 am »
ElementalDearWatson:  Any idea how many times you autoskipped those FGs? If not, I can use an averaging technique to estimate.

Dm1321:  Agree with pretty much everything.  Pretty much every "FG killer" deck needs to be retested because of the significant changes in v1.32.  The four decks you mentioned sound like a great place to start.  Which one will you take first?  :)
And you're welcome.

Leodip:  Using the Trainer is one approach.  I'm not averse to collecting data that way.  Personally, I prefer to collect data by playing on my account so I get to keep the cards I win.  I suspect some other players think similarly.
In the interest of accommodating as many people as possible, to get as much data as possible, I will go with your idea and assign groups of FGs to anyone who mentions that they'd prefer to test in the Trainer.  Thanks for the input.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 02:45:28 am by Pella »
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Offline ElementalDearWatson

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Re: The Return of FGei https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49887.msg1080810#msg1080810
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2013, 07:49:46 am »
ElementalDearWatson:  Any idea how many times you autoskipped those FGs? If not, I can use an averaging technique to estimate.

I'm afraid I don't.

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Re: The Return of FGei https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49887.msg1080829#msg1080829
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2013, 10:28:54 am »
Can someone try an unupped mono aether against FGs, I want to see how it goes. Or even an aether stall with SoW, Phasers and earth (PA) splash.

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Re: The Return of FGei https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49887.msg1080831#msg1080831
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2013, 10:36:19 am »
Can someone try an unupped mono aether against FGs, I want to see how it goes. Or even an aether stall with SoW, Phasers and earth (PA) splash.
Hmm, what about an Aether with Water Splash? You splash in SoPs and power up your Phase Salvagers for DimShield. The problem is that rushy ones could kill you in one turn if they can destroy your shield.
Basically it'd be auto-skip against momentumed creatures, steals and deck with Deflagration and lot of Damage Output. Otherwise, I think this deck would be awesome against FGs, because you can easily outheal FGs like Ferox (IIRC he's the one with Feral Bounds) or Fire Queen, break through shields (some power-upped creatures with SoW are just as deadly as that, but I think you can skip the Immortals and play only Psions and Phase Salvagers) and stuff.

Something like Mark of Water, 3 SoPs, 4 Psions, 4 Salvagers, the rest is Dim Shields and Pillars.

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Re: The Return of FGei https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49887.msg1080848#msg1080848
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2013, 12:30:10 pm »
Can someone try an unupped mono aether against FGs, I want to see how it goes. Or even an aether stall with SoW, Phasers and earth (PA) splash.

This sort of asking for people to test is pretty annoying, why don't you test by yourself if you want to see how a deck goes? Testers will most probably take the 'hit' decks and bring stats for them before anything else.
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