AI3 GRINDING: LUDICROUS SPEED deck

[Chival]

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This thread became completely disorganized during the forum move.  To view the actual deck posted by turin, please view this link:  http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,482.msg4409.html#msg4409
have you tried this with the upgraded gnomes? thay add stone quanta each turn

[Chival]

yeah ive thought about this, but i mindlessly grind, i dont even pay attention enough to use the creatures abilities.

[dimmesdale]

well this is really fast!! and since there are only 4types of cards its very stable.(but a bit dull...) truly effective

[ElementalGod]

have you tried this with the upgraded gnomes? thay add stone quanta each turn

i wont because of time mark: towers are better, you need them and they leave you the chance to have more useful creatures, and that poor 1 attack...

Drop the antlion and add the gnome imo

[Scaredgirl]

I tried this deck for about 20+ matches. I would say it's about as fast as Chivals fire deck. It's not "ludicrously" fast.

One thing I would change though. I think your version has too many high cost creatures. I found this deck to work MUCH better when I dropped Antilion and one Shrieker, and took Towers instead. This way you won't get not so many bad draws where your opening hand is full of Shriekers that you cannot afford to pay. Try it, it works better.

Oh, and that "typical" situation you have there is not typical. During those 20+ matches I don't think I once had 3 Shriekers on the table at the end of turn 3. It's usually at around turn 4 or 5.

As conclusion I like deck better than that fire deck. They are both fast but this one wins more frequently. It's almost impossible to lose with this one (I didn't lose once) but with that fire deck you can easily lose if you get a bad draw (I tested it again today and go totally owned be level 3 light guy).

I still prefer fast rainbow deck for level 3 farming because it's not nearly as boring to play as these two and it's almost as fast.

[Scaredgirl]

i must agree with you: i just tested this deck in trainer just for 6-7 matches and got always good starts like the one above. Now i'm using a not fully upgraded version in real game and i noticed it's not truly tipical , but still quite common, to have 3 shrieker on ground at turn 3.
So i continue to love it , those graboids are so good!

And about speed: i'm sure that with a scientific study and deep statistics i can dimostrate it's faster than chival's mono red

Hypothesis: Your argument is BS.

Lets have fun and do some math. Looking at that screenshot of the "typical" situation we can clearly see what cards you were dealt and what cards you played. Here is the summary:

Because you have 21 cards left at the end of your 3rd turn, that means you won the coin toss and started with 7 cards.

TURN 1.

Hand: 4 x Towers, 1 x Shrieker, 2 x Graboid
Play: 4 x Towers, 1 X Graboid

Earth Towers: 4

Earth quantum: 5
Time quantum: 0

Damage dealt to opponent: 2

On the table: 1 x Graboid

TURN 2.

Draw: 1 x Tower
Hand: 1 x Tower, 1 x Shriker, 1 x Graboid
Play: 1 x Tower, 1 x Graboid

Earth Towers: 5

Earth quantum: 8
Time quantum: 0

Damage dealt to opponent: 12

On the table: 1 x Shrieker, 1 x Graboid

TURN 3.

Draw: 1 x Shrieker
Hand: 2 x Shriker
Play: 1 x Shrieker

Earth Towers: 5

Earth quantum: 0 (before pressing SPACE)
Time quantum: 0

On the table: 3 x Shrieker


This was exactly how the game on your screenshot went. There are no other possibilities because then either your quantum or damage dealt would be different.


What needs to happen in order to get 3 Shriekers at the end of turn 3?

1. You have to play 2 x Graboids and 1 x Shrieker
There are no other possible combinations. You cannot afford under any circumstances play for more than 1 x Shrieker or evolve more than 2 x Graboids (mark of Time).

2. In your opening hand you have to have 4, 5 or 6 Towers (Pillars won't do)
If you have less than 4, you won't be able to pay for 2 x Graboid and 1 x Shrieker. If you have 7, you won't be able to draw 3 creatures.

3. In your opening hand you have to have 1 Graboid
See #4.

4. You have to have played 2 Graboids at the end of turn 2
If you haven't played 2 Graboids on the table at the end of turn 2, you won't be able to turn them into Shriekers and have 3 Shriekers at the end of turn 3.

5. You have to play Shrieker during turn 3.
There is no other way. See #4.


Possible draws
At the end of turn 3 you have drawn 9 cards from your deck. When we look at the "what needs to happen" above, these are all the possible hands you have to be dealt:

TURN 1: 4 x Towers, 1 x Shrieker (or during turn 3), 2 x Graboid
TURN 2: 1 x Tower
TURN 3: 1 x Shrieker (or during turn 1)

TURN 1: 5 x Towers, 1 x Shrieker (or during turn 3), 1 x Graboid
TURN 2: 1 x Graboid
TURN 3: 1 x Shrieker (or during turn 1)

TURN 1: 5 x Towers, 2 x Graboid
TURN 2: 1 x Shrieker (or during next turn)
TURN 3: 1 x Shrieker (or during previous turn)

TURN 1: 6 x Towers, 1 x Graboid
TURN 2: 1 x Graboid
TURN 3: 1 x Shrieker

As you can see there are only a handful of situations where you will have 3 Shriekers on the table at the end of turn 3.

So you see after looking at the evidence, it's very clear that having 3 Shriekers at the end of turn is actually very unlikely even with a fully upgraded deck, let alone partly unupgraded one like in your original claim.

I think we can safely conclude that my original hypothesis is in fact true and your claim is BS.

All this has of course little to do with anything. I just felt the need to correct your statement because I've seen a lot of people here like to exaggerate the effectiveness of their deck.



Yeah.. I was REALLY bored.

[turin]

First of all, i must admit that Chival's mono red is extremely fast.
But i asked myself if there was something even more fast (!). I found my answer in Shrieker: the elite version has the same damage/cost ratio than ruby dragons, and that's the highest of the game between 10+ hitting creatures (ok, a giant frog ratio is better, but kills toooo slower).
But the most important thing is: you can play 12 (!!!) of them, just having graboids! So, even if they hit less than dragons, you'll keep spamming them for all the match (just few turns ) and there's no risk of not drawing the right creatures.

here the deck, TIME mark:

by turin

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

6rk 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 77g 77g 77g 77g 77g 77g 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h 8ps

Only problem is devourers who tend to rob time quantum, but probably you'll have already evolved a pair of graboids before, so there will be no more need. About the sword and the antlion: they're just the cheapest cards i found to improve hittin' power, rare weapons arent good for this deck.

Here a situation of good start on turn 3 (not for AI who has no pillars, but for you). In the mono-red, even with the fastest start, at this point you'll have some fire eater and one dragon, no more (at least a farhenheit).


And here that's me testing this deck:


enjoy

[turin]

i must agree with you: i just tested this deck in trainer just for 6-7 matches and got always good starts like the one above. Now i'm using a not fully upgraded version in real game and i noticed it's not truly tipical , but still quite common, to have 3 shrieker on ground at turn 3.
So i continue to love it , those graboids are so good!

And about speed: i'm sure that with a scientific study and deep statistics i can dimostrate it's faster than chival's mono red

[turin]

have you tried this with the upgraded gnomes? thay add stone quanta each turn

i wont because of time mark: towers are better, you need them and they leave you the chance to have more useful creatures, and that poor 1 attack...

[turin]

I narrowly beat a crappier version of this in PvP...>.< Sundial saved my ass...=/

obviously it's not for pvp . But a gravity version with shrieker+gravity pull+pulverizer could be really good: good creature and permanent control and possibility of making your creatures immortal. Hadn't tried it yet because i've only one pulv and it needs at least 2.

[turin]

Why run shields? This is a speed deck, so the point is to outdamage your opponent as fast as possible. If you put in shields, then you're not only wasting quanta on slowing the opponent instead of killing them, but you're also setting up something that can be stolen, which would then slow YOU down. Using the Sword is better, because it's extra damage each turn, it's cheap, and who cares if it's stolen? As for the Antlion, I'd personally just take it out and run an extra tower, or another Sword, in case yours was stolen or destroyed.

You're right. I was frightened by early eagle eye against my unupgraded shriekers, but then i remembered that cpu will target my upgraded ones first, not killing them, giving me one turn to burrow! i think i'll play sword+tower

[turin]

i dont think your dimostration is exact. At least in exposition: remember my deck is 16 towers, 6 graboids and 6 shireker, so your cases must be numbered with towers 1-16, graboids 1-6 and shriekers 1-6, doing all possible combinations. You have even to take count of all exchnge possibilities between cards in different turns, and all possibilities of unplayed cards. Then compare that number to all possible combinations (30² for turn 1) and you'll got it. Seems a huge work just to get an idea of it calculating turn 1...
 And there are even more cases: just shriek+ seven towers then graboid then shriek and more others. Supposing you start you leave the most effective cases :those starting with 1 card more!
Seems you argued to get the right, not to discover truth

My considerations:
At first glance it think that hands with lot of towers and graboids come often. You almost everytime have 2 shriekers on turn 3, but sometimes, as i've said, 3. And sometimes is not so uncommon, even quite common, practise demonstrate it.
I dont think to have exagerated: Just said i was searching for something faster than mono fire and with a ridicolous percentage of bad draws (by now, for me, 0 losses with just graboids and towers upgrade)
One day, when i'll be bored as you, i'll get you exact percentage dates

Btw, i took away antlion and sword and got 2 unupgraded (=cheaper) shields, useful if you've not so much creatures upgraded

EDIT: btw, what BS means?
EDIT: i've edited this reply just twice, to improve exposition and try not to sound aggressive (because i'm not, but my basic english sounds not so fair sometimes)