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Offline WerdbootyTopic starter

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Lucky! Series https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19030.msg242491#msg242491
« on: January 07, 2011, 04:50:54 pm »
:electrum :electrum :electrum
Edit January 29/2011: You can now click on a card image to go to its individual thread.
 :electrum :electrum :electrum
Although I started in on this concept a while back, the fact that we're currently "Reigned by Entropy" adds a whole new aspect to this pack of cards. Since this Series revolves around Chance and Luck, I figure it couples nicely with Entropy's victory, tho bear in mind this series isn't based on Entropy. The idea here is that one would have a 50% chance to achieve one of the desired effects on each card, both effects being somewhat beneficial to the spell's controller. There is one card for each element, including a bonus card for Other, with all effects pertaining (for the most part, I think) to their corresponding Elements.

One last thing before I get to the cards: there's a subtle difference in the way these cards upgrade.

...and of course, Other:
Just a few points to keep in mind:
Well, I think that's that for now. I'll deal with any concerns or questions as they arise. Thanks in advance folks.



"A kind of synthesis, but with some elements that perhaps you wouldn't have expected in advance. I always like that when that happens, when something comes that is more than the sum of the parts." —Evan Parker

Re: New Series: Lucky! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19030.msg242493#msg242493
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2011, 04:55:13 pm »
What an epic work!!! :o I like it!!!

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Re: New Series: Lucky! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19030.msg242499#msg242499
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2011, 05:14:04 pm »
Sounds Good! But are they balanced? Mr. OldTrees please answer this.
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Offline WerdbootyTopic starter

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Re: New Series: Lucky! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19030.msg242500#msg242500
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2011, 05:15:31 pm »
Sounds Good! But are they balanced? Mr. OldTrees please answer this.
*rubs hands in anticipation*

His math is always better than mine anyway. I swear, I just put whatever looks good in the casting cost and wait for OldTrees to tell me where I went wrong  :P
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: New Series: Lucky! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19030.msg242502#msg242502
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2011, 05:21:37 pm »
Individual Analysis of unupped cards.
 :air Thunderstorm is worth 2 :air so obviously this card intended the alternative Airborne effect as a means of dilution. I believe that the Airborne effect combined with Air Blitz would be worth 1 :air and thus the dilution may not be sufficient. Web is a lot more situational but also a lot less Airish.

 :earth Both effects are well priced. Destroying 1 random pillar might not be worth a full  :earth though.

 :water I cannot judge this well.

 :fire Neither the +2 damage effect nor +3 damage effect seem worth the :fire unupped.

 :light Again another dilution card. Here I think the dilution worked. 3hp of healing is almost worthless but 1 turn of grace is worth about 2 :light.

 :darkness I cannot judge well

 :life Another dilution card. I see a trend. Dilution cards work well with this Lucky Mechanic. Is the extra attack a random creature or targeted? I think the dilution would work best with random.

 :death Unfortunately this is superior to Skeleton unless a shield is used. If a shield is used then it is worse than Skeleton. I cannot judge this well.

 :aether Both of these effects are worth more than 1 :aether (3|2 :aether to be precise)

 :gravity Seems balanced

 :time Another successful dilution (2 :time+c|0 :time+c)

 :entropy Same 10 quanta shuffle as Discord? I think it is clear that Antimatter even random may be too powerful for this card.

 :rainbow Probably too onesided for 1 :rainbow. Heal half current hp or lose all but 1hp might be more fitting

Analysis for upgraded will come soon.
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Offline manaboy100

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Re: New Series: Lucky! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19030.msg242505#msg242505
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2011, 05:26:40 pm »
Well, I like the idea, but here's some advice?

"Fish Scale'' description: Remove the 'you' between 'or' and 'generate

"Match Stick'' effect: Why +2/0? Fire's trademark is increasing damage while reducing HP :) Maybe +2/-1? And make it to a random creature, not only our's

''Rabbit's Foot'' effect: Just round up the healing to 5?

''Loaded Dice" effect: Remove the &s, one effect a time :)

"Bone Domino" effect: Same with "Loaded Dice"

"Crystal Ball" effect: Err, I'll useabuse that card  :D
I could sense Protects + Crystal Ball + Phase Shield , epic stall FTW



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Offline OldTrees

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Re: New Series: Lucky! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19030.msg242516#msg242516
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2011, 05:53:29 pm »

Terminology
CC: Casting Cost
AC: Activation Cost

Upgraded aka "on a stick"
 :air Thunderstorm on a stick is Very powerful due to the abnormal synergy between uses. Airborne on a stick enables Airblitzing on a whole new level. I would assume that a CC:6|5 :air with AC:2 :air would be closer to balanced but will require a lot of careful consideration.

 :earth Might be balanced. Increased synergy with Liquid Shadow, decreased vulnerability to CC and increased value of the minor quake effect.

 :water A Water pillar with an effective CC of 6.5 :water that floods every other turn? I think the free alternating flood effect may be worth more. An AC of  :water :water would fix this and even allow a CC of 2 :water.

 :fire Effective CC of 5.5, AC of 1 for 2.5 damage per turn? In fire? 2.5 damage per turn is worth a CC of 1.5 and AC of 0 in Fire.

 :light Rabbit's feet in mass now provide a reliable but expensive permanent Dimensional Shield that ignores momentum. This will need careful consideration and will often be seen as OP due to the small number of mass PC counters to it (Pulvy, BE, Mutation, Fallen Elf).

 :darkness Seems on par with 2 pests.

 :life I don't know. May be UP alone, may be OP with Feral Bond.

 :death I don't know

 :aether Feels too powerful

 :gravity Gravity pull on a stick is both powerful and redundant. Look to others for further advice

 :time Redundancy with Hourglass and Eternity may be problems. Actual CC of 5 :time is theoretically balanced.

 :entropy Same problem as unupped. Antimatter may be too powerful

 :rainbow Same suggestion as with the unupped.
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Offline WerdbootyTopic starter

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Re: New Series: Lucky! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19030.msg242519#msg242519
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2011, 05:58:06 pm »
:air Thunderstorm is worth 2 :air so obviously this card intended the alternative Airborne effect as a means of dilution. I believe that the Airborne effect combined with Air Blitz would be worth 1 :air and thus the dilution may not be sufficient. Web is a lot more situational but also a lot less Airish.

 :earth Both effects are well priced. Destroying 1 random pillar might not be worth a full  :earth though.

 :water I cannot judge this well.

 :fire Neither the +2 damage effect nor +3 damage effect seem worth the :fire unupped.

 :light Again another dilution card. Here I think the dilution worked. 3hp of healing is almost worthless but 1 turn of grace is worth about 2 :light.

 :darkness I cannot judge well

 :life Another dilution card. I see a trend. Dilution cards work well with this Lucky Mechanic. Is the extra attack a random creature or targeted? I think the dilution would work best with random.

 :death Unfortunately this is superior to Skeleton unless a shield is used. If a shield is used then it is worse than Skeleton. I cannot judge this well.

 :aether Both of these effects are worth more than 1 :aether (3|2 :aether to be precise)

 :gravity Seems balanced

 :time Another successful dilution (2 :time+c|0 :time+c)

 :entropy Same 10 quanta shuffle as Discord? I think it is clear that Antimatter even random may be too powerful for this card.

 :rainbow Probably too onesided for 1 :rainbow. Heal half current hp or lose all but 1hp might be more fitting

Analysis for upgraded will come soon.
EXPLANATIONS: Round One (Unupped)

Once again Trees, you hit pretty much every nail on the head. 90% of what you brought up are concerns of mine. And yes, I had to keep telling myself to stop "watering down" the cards.

:air I suspected the Airborne effect wasn't going to cut it but I really wanted to avoid turning Wishbone into a destructive card. I felt it needed an "airier" quality. Perhaps 2 damage served instead of 1 by the lightning effect? Also note this would remove Invisibility, whether upped or no.

 :earth I agonized over this. I debated putting it to 2, then dropped it to 1 pillar at the last moment. Oddly, one of the harder cards to make.

 :water Neither can I lol...hence the "1 turn" modifier.

 :fire It was originally intended as a permanent +2|+0 (a la Fire Spirit) or 5 damage dealt, but I was worried that might be a little OP. Perhaps not, this is Fire after all. Also, I think this might answer your question as well, Manaboy. It is interesting to note that the card started as a global creature effect, then evolved to only controller's side of the field.

 :light Dilution was all too easy with this one! And yes Manaboy, the original heal effect was for 5 (this is Light, remember?)

 :darkness This card came to me relatively easy. I think the swap on the payoffs is nice (Loaded Dice = win/win situation), tho Manaboy raises a valid concern: is this mechanic doable, or should it be trimmed? Same goes for Bone Domino.

 :life All creature effects are meant to be random. Seeing as life has a fairly balanced creature system, I thought a randomizer like this on your side of the field might be nice for Life. (Take that, Adrenaline!)

 :death Y'know, it was originally meant to be an Elite Skeleton with one Bone Shield, then flip-flopped all over the place. I'm still not satisfied myself. I will say this tho: this card will keep its ability to summon at least one Bone Shield. That idea just tickles me purple.

 :aether Told you it was broken.

 :gravity Final card created. I toyed with the idea of a Black Hole effect, then realized Gravity Pull on the opposite end of the court might dilute the Momentum effect enough to not OP Gravity some more.

 :time Too easy. This card made itself.

 :entropy & :rainbow These two are possibly interchangeable. I'm debating the idea of dropping the Other and integrating its effect into Dreamcatcher, tho I can't see how a Dreamcatcher would fit with All or Nothing's mechanic. Seems more Entropy to me, at any rate. By the way, I figure the math on the Antimatter to be something like this: 4 :entropy for Antimatter. Cut that in half due to the 50-50 nature of the Lucky mechanic. Further cut that in half as it stands a 50-50 chance of actually landing on your side of the field. This is assuming your opponent has a creature out tho.

Review review review...I'll get to the Sticks in a bit.

Oh, it might help to think of these as cantrips. Slight little spells that aren't supposed to do much but help out a lot.

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Re: New Series: Lucky! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19030.msg242525#msg242525
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2011, 06:17:23 pm »
:air Thunderstorm is worth 2 :air so obviously this card intended the alternative Airborne effect as a means of dilution. I believe that the Airborne effect combined with Air Blitz would be worth 1 :air and thus the dilution may not be sufficient. Web is a lot more situational but also a lot less Airish.

 :earth Both effects are well priced. Destroying 1 random pillar might not be worth a full  :earth though.

 :water I cannot judge this well.

 :fire Neither the +2 damage effect nor +3 damage effect seem worth the :fire unupped.

 :light Again another dilution card. Here I think the dilution worked. 3hp of healing is almost worthless but 1 turn of grace is worth about 2 :light.

 :darkness I cannot judge well

 :life Another dilution card. I see a trend. Dilution cards work well with this Lucky Mechanic. Is the extra attack a random creature or targeted? I think the dilution would work best with random.

 :death Unfortunately this is superior to Skeleton unless a shield is used. If a shield is used then it is worse than Skeleton. I cannot judge this well.

 :aether Both of these effects are worth more than 1 :aether (3|2 :aether to be precise)

 :gravity Seems balanced

 :time Another successful dilution (2 :time+c|0 :time+c)

 :entropy Same 10 quanta shuffle as Discord? I think it is clear that Antimatter even random may be too powerful for this card.

 :rainbow Probably too onesided for 1 :rainbow. Heal half current hp or lose all but 1hp might be more fitting

Analysis for upgraded will come soon.
EXPLANATIONS: Round One (Unupped)

Once again Trees, you hit pretty much every nail on the head. 90% of what you brought up are concerns of mine. And yes, I had to keep telling myself to stop "watering down" the cards.

:air I suspected the Airborne effect wasn't going to cut it but I really wanted to avoid turning Wishbone into a destructive card. I felt it needed an "airier" quality. Perhaps 2 damage served instead of 1 by the lightning effect? Also note this would remove Invisibility, whether upped or no.

 :earth I agonized over this. I debated putting it to 2, then dropped it to 1 pillar at the last moment. Oddly, one of the harder cards to make.

 :water Neither can I lol...hence the "1 turn" modifier.

 :fire It was originally intended as a permanent +2|+0 (a la Fire Spirit) or 5 damage dealt, but I was worried that might be a little OP. Perhaps not, this is Fire after all. Also, I think this might answer your question as well, Manaboy. It is interesting to note that the card started as a global creature effect, then evolved to only controller's side of the field.

 :light Dilution was all too easy with this one! And yes Manaboy, the original heal effect was for 5 (this is Light, remember?)

 :darkness This card came to me relatively easy. I think the swap on the payoffs is nice (Loaded Dice = win/win situation), tho Manaboy raises a valid concern: is this mechanic doable, or should it be trimmed? Same goes for Bone Domino.

 :life All creature effects are meant to be random. Seeing as life has a fairly balanced creature system, I thought a randomizer like this on your side of the field might be nice for Life. (Take that, Adrenaline!)

 :death Y'know, it was originally meant to be an Elite Skeleton with one Bone Shield, then flip-flopped all over the place. I'm still not satisfied myself. I will say this tho: this card will keep its ability to summon at least one Bone Shield. That idea just tickles me purple.

 :aether Told you it was broken.

 :gravity Final card created. I toyed with the idea of a Black Hole effect, then realized Gravity Pull on the opposite end of the court might dilute the Momentum effect enough to not OP Gravity some more.

 :time Too easy. This card made itself.

 :entropy & :rainbow These two are possibly interchangeable. I'm debating the idea of dropping the Other and integrating its effect into Dreamcatcher, tho I can't see how a Dreamcatcher would fit with All or Nothing's mechanic. Seems more Entropy to me, at any rate. By the way, I figure the math on the Antimatter to be something like this: 4 :entropy for Antimatter. Cut that in half due to the 50-50 nature of the Lucky mechanic. Further cut that in half as it stands a 50-50 chance of actually landing on your side of the field. This is assuming your opponent has a creature out tho.

Review review review...I'll get to the Sticks in a bit.

Oh, it might help to think of these as cantrips. Slight little spells that aren't supposed to do much but help out a lot.
Clarification: Dilution of one result with the other result is not a bad idea. It is in fact a good idea when done right thematically like it is here.

:air Do not increase the Thunderstorm effect please. I would leave it as is for now. If I am right it is only slightly (.5quanta) OP.

 :earth I would suggest letting them target the destroyed pillar but that would require the +hp effect to be random (oh wait it is :) ).

 :darkness The mechanic is a combination of a triggered devourer's passive ability and a modified drain life spell. Easily code-able.

 :aether Maybe you phase out or are struck by a shock/spark [3damage]?

 :gravity Thank you for not using Black Hole.

 :entropy I missed that Antimatter could be your side as well. This could be balanced at CC of 2 :entropy.
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Offline Ajit

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Re: New Series: Lucky! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19030.msg242755#msg242755
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2011, 12:14:28 am »
I don't necessarily see anything wrong with the mechanics, but I'm not crazy about them.  I doubt I would use them...

However, I LOVE some of the names of the cards for most elements.  They fit great.

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Re: New Series: Lucky! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19030.msg242768#msg242768
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2011, 12:38:20 am »
I like this series, it certainly does go along with reign of entropy, and Oldtrees has pretty much covered everything.

I feel  :rainbow is too risky, and not rewarding at the same time.  What if you're about to die with like 8 health? I say increase the healing.


 :life  is rather interesting considering the potential combos with Fallen Elf and other cards, but I really don't see the use of unupped except for splashing in more rustlers.

 :aether  Feels kind of strong, since it's a cheaper Silence or a self protection effect.


Re: New Series: Lucky! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19030.msg242828#msg242828
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2011, 02:23:19 am »
mebbe make the  :rainbow card heal full hp, or halve your hp.

you can integrate either 1 of them...

 

blarg: