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Offline LegitTopic starter

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Submerge | Improved Submerge https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17750.msg226242#msg226242
« on: December 17, 2010, 01:10:34 am »
NAME:
Submerge
ELEMENT:
Water
COST:
3 :water
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:
-
TEXT:
Submerge target water creature.
NAME:
Improved Submerge
ELEMENT:
Water
COST:
2 :water
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:
-
TEXT:
Submerge target water creature.
ART:
Legit, Toadfish by Zanzarino.
IDEA:
Legit
NOTES:
Submerge: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17700.0.html
SERIES:
-
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918273645

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Re: Submerge | Improved Submerge https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17750.msg226247#msg226247
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2010, 01:15:47 am »
Nice idea, and good job with the pufferfish art. :3
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wizelsnarf

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Re: Submerge | Improved Submerge https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17750.msg226301#msg226301
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2010, 03:09:02 am »
I like it.  Cost less than quint but is only for water creatures - which makes sense.

It seems a tad bit hard to balance. If it only cost 1 upgraded, you could easily just make submerged dragon deck that would be pretty unkillable... I think someone mentioned that maybe dragons would be exempt from submerge as they are airborne?

Like the idea of having a spell for it.


Seems to call into question what the elements battlefield looks like (besides black hard wood floors)....

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Offline LegitTopic starter

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Re: Submerge | Improved Submerge https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17750.msg226316#msg226316
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2010, 03:54:34 am »
I like the idea of dragons being exempt. But keep in mind for balancing, submerged creatures can still be hit with cards like Rain of Fire, while Immaterial creatures cannot.
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Submerge | Improved Submerge https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17750.msg226353#msg226353
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2010, 05:54:04 am »
If i understand correctly Submerge is better than Quint in mono water decks.
Being better and costing less do not make sense together.
Please make it cost the same as quint.
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Offline LegitTopic starter

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Re: Submerge | Improved Submerge https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17750.msg226869#msg226869
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2010, 11:08:36 pm »
It's only for water creatures, so making it cost the same as quint would make this card almost useless. A cost of 3|2 may be more reasonable.
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Submerge | Improved Submerge https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17750.msg226876#msg226876
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2010, 11:24:28 pm »
Quote from: Legit on December 17, 2010, 11:08:36 pm
It's only for water creatures, so making it cost the same as quint would make this card almost useless. A cost of 3|2 may be more reasonable.
This makes them invisible too. (What is the current attack|hp of that submerged Steam Machine?)
And the cost is mono instead of requiring an Aether mark

I think it will be far from useless at 4|3. However I will agree that 3|2 is more reasonable than 2|1.
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wizelsnarf

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Re: Submerge | Improved Submerge https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17750.msg227013#msg227013
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2010, 02:19:51 am »
yeah dont make it cost the same as quint.

Quint is way more powerful and versatile.

I don't exactly see why RoF should affect a creature underwater but I see that you are trying to balance it and make it similar to cloak so I get you overall.


I think 2|1 is fine as it is so limited in what creatures it can be used on. If you exempt the dragon, all the more reason to keep it 2|1.
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Submerge | Improved Submerge https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17750.msg227027#msg227027
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2010, 02:48:06 am »
Ok. Now I am confused.
Is the vulnerability to mass CC part of Invisibility or part of Cloak? I thought the mass CC was only a vulnerability of Cloak and not a vulnerability of invisibility.

When Submerge makes the creature "Invisible" is it also protected from mass targeting effects like RoF?
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Offline LegitTopic starter

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Re: Submerge | Improved Submerge https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17750.msg227781#msg227781
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2010, 12:20:44 am »
Added a poll. Once I get some more input I will change the card as needed and submit it.
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Submerge | Improved Submerge https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17750.msg227802#msg227802
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2010, 12:49:52 am »
I have been informed that submerge does not give AoE immunity. Therefore it should cost less than Quint despite giving Invisibility.
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Offline AnonymousRevival

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Re: Submerge | Improved Submerge https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17750.msg228268#msg228268
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2010, 02:40:43 pm »
Do  :water creatures naturally submerge? Does it apply to ALL :water creatures or a certain type?
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