Building types

[Daxx]

This salvaging that the winner gets, are those things also removed from the player that lost?

I had assumed we'd do it like War, so the discards and the salvages might not perfectly match up. But I think Scaredgirl has the final call on that.

I wonder if this would negatively affect the desire to duel.

I don't imagine it will impact too significantly. The game is essentially built around the various incentives to duel other players. There are likely to be times when you purposely want to avoid fighting, sure, but other people will almost certainly want to fight you.

[Scaredgirl]

Replies to few questions..

I think that we should use the Bank system used in most MMO's, where you deposit cash and items in one city, and easily withdraw them in another. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever, but sometimes fun is more important than making sense. If we forced players to either pay or wait for their stuff, I think it would just be an unnecessary evil.

If you want to it make sense, you could think of it as very efficient Dragon Mail system that the Banks use.


As for discarding after a loss.. Daxx is correct, we will be using the War system for card discarding. This is because of simplicity. Discarding items.. well, that's a different topic with some problems.

I like things that happen automatically without players needing to communicate. This makes the event run faster and it's less hassle for players.

I was thinking that maybe we could have a system where you have to give one of your items to your opponent if you lose 2-0. Kind of makes sense to me, but the problem is, which item?

If we make it random, someone has to randomize it. If we let the player choose, he will always choose the worst item. If we let the other player choose, he will always pick the best one, plus there's lots of communication going back and forth.

I don't know how we could make this process automatic, but if someone has any ideas, please let me know.

And by "automatic", I mean a system where the losing player will know after the duel..

A) How much money he lost
B) What item he lost (if any)

This way the player can post this salvage in the battle results topic without any extra steps in communication.

[Daxx]

I suggest that a loss costs the defeated player 10% of their currently held electrum and, say, three cards. If they are defeated 2-0, then in addition to this they lose one item of the defeated player's choice. These are posted in the duel thread after the duel is completed. All that needs to happen then is that the winner checks the thread to see what he's won - he takes the electrum, one card, and the item if there is one.

This comes with the caveat that you must always lose a quest item before any other item. Of course, if you have more than one quest item on you can choose which one you lose.

Also note that the victor salvages fewer cards than the loser discards. This is to act as a money sink to mitigate the effects of money-sources on the game economy. The exact number of each can obviously be tweaked later.

Yes, this means that victors will always get the worst items in theory, but it at least means that it is then possible to steal quest items from people.

[Kamietsu]

*snip*

I'm not sure how good or bad it would be, but maybe the item that a person loses is based on the opponent's HP at the end of the duel? Here's an example:

Two players duel, Player A and Player B. Player A has 5 items and ends up losing the duel 0-2. Player B had 38 HP at the end of the duel(The second duel which gave him the sweep). Since he had 28 HP, the second item Player A has in his inventory list is what must be given to Player B.

The list of HP-Item could be like this:

1-20: First Item.
21-40: Second Item.
41-60: Third Item.
61-80: Fourth Item.
81-100: Fifth Item.

Or, since most would have less or more than only 5 items, it could be done this way:

1-20: One item in the first fifth of their items is chosen by the loser to give to the winner.
21-40: One item in the second fifth of their items is chosen by the loser to give to the winner.
41-60: One item in the third fifth of their items in chosen by the lower to give to the winner.
61-80: One item in the fourth fifth of their items is chosen by the loser to give to the winner.
81-99: One item in the last fifth of their items is chosen by the lower to give to the winner.
100+: Winner gets to choose what item they get from the loser.

That way, if a person only has 3 items, if the winner has 1-20 hp it would be the first item. 21-40 it would be the first or the second item. 41-60 would be the second item. 61-80 would be the second or third item. and 80-99 would be the third item.

It might be a little complicated, but it would require no communication between players, unless the loser forgets the winner's ending HP.

[Scaredgirl]

I suggest that a loss costs the defeated player 10% of their currently held electrum and, say, three cards. If they are defeated 2-0, then in addition to this they lose one item of the defeated player's choice. These are posted in the duel thread after the duel is completed. All that needs to happen then is that the winner checks the thread to see what he's won - he takes the electrum, one card, and the item if there is one.

This comes with the caveat that you must always lose a quest item before any other item. Of course, if you have more than one quest item on you can choose which one you lose.

Also note that the victor salvages fewer cards than the loser discards. This is to act as a money sink to mitigate the effects of money-sources on the game economy. The exact number of each can obviously be tweaked later.

Yes, this means that victors will always get the worst items in theory, but it at least means that it is then possible to steal quest items from people.

10% is a number I had in mind as well. I'm a bit worried about players not being able to count it though. Having 50% would probably mean less errors, but I'm sure some people couldn't count that either, plus it might be too big of a penalty for one loss.

For card discarding, I was thinking 12, or 6 if you surrender. I personally think that 3 is way too low.

That item discarding system you suggest might actually work, but I'm not a big fan of losing player getting to pick that item. Insn't there any other way to do that? If loser gets to pick, he or she can always have some crappy items as a "shield" to protect their more valuable ones.

*snip*

I'm not sure how good or bad it would be, but maybe the item that a person loses is based on the opponent's HP at the end of the duel?

Nice creative suggestion, but I think it has a HUGE window for human error. It might also require things like screenshots as proof.. I don't know, sounds pretty complex.

I have an idea of my own. What if all items were given a level, and you would always have to discard the item with the highest level? This would be fully automatic and relatively simple. Only complex thing would be to assign each item that level, but it could also be used for the price of that item, for example level 5 items cost 200 electrum etc.

[Daxx]

I have an idea of my own. What if all items were given a level, and you would always have to discard the item with the highest level? This would be fully automatic and relatively simple. Only complex thing would be to assign each item that level, but it could also be used for the price of that item, for example level 5 items cost 200 electrum etc.

That would also work.

[Kamietsu]

I have an idea of my own. What if all items were given a level, and you would always have to discard the item with the highest level? This would be fully automatic and relatively simple. Only complex thing would be to assign each item that level, but it could also be used for the price of that item, for example level 5 items cost 200 electrum etc.

That would also work.

That would be pretty good. Sounds like the most simple, yet fair, solution. That way, it's only your most valuable(in currency) item, and not necessarily the most valuable item in effect.

[Dragoon]

I like having gradations for the items as well.

Speaking of items, I was just going to add stuff into my table but then I had a question.  We've talked about one-time use items like "Potion of Freezing" or "Scroll of Quintessence" but what about continuous items like armor, weaponry, jewelry, etc.?  Should those be things that we sell as well?

[Scaredgirl]

I like having gradations for the items as well.

Speaking of items, I was just going to add stuff into my table but then I had a question.  We've talked about one-time use items like "Potion of Freezing" or "Scroll of Quintessence" but what about continuous items like armor, weaponry, jewelry, etc.?  Should those be things that we sell as well?

The problem with having things like weapons and shields, is that Elements already has those, and it might get confusing and illogical. This is why I would prefer items or item types that are not found in element.

One-time use items are hands down the best way to go in terms of gameplay. However we can have some permanent stuff as well.

This new topic talks more about items: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17189.0.html