War #4 - Feedback

[Legit]

Yeah, war creates beautiful, unique decks every war because they don't have the cards to build orthodox deck.  I don't think we should stop this.

It's a nice idea but it kill the main charm of this event : building deck with limited vault is for me the best part of war, which make teams build amazing unexpected deck (sometimes ^^).

I can't argue with you - I totally agree that the limitations of the vault is a great part of war. However a sacrifice has to be made to solve the numerous problems that have been brought up multiple times by many players. There are some good suggestions to fix said problems but as whole I think my idea solves most, if not all, of these while only producing a few drawbacks.

[hainkarga]

This feels wrong. A team with 32 wins (time) fielding 1 player to the final 4 rounds where a team with 17 wins (light) fielding two players. Even the winrate difference is 12%. Feels like the only rounds that matters are the last two rounds, severely making 90%ish of the war matches petty. Especially when i think that time won majority of their matches with non-gen non-lie players since they had to play more, where teams like light had more % of their matches played by their gen-lie who have the upped card advantage.
ps. This isn't about time or light but about the system

[majofa]

This feels wrong. A team with 32 wins (time) fielding 1 player to the final 4 rounds where a team with 17 wins (light) fielding two players. Even the winrate difference is 12%. Feels like the only rounds that matters are the last two rounds, severely making 90%ish of the war matches petty.

The championship is always at the end, the rest of the time you're just trying get there.

[hainkarga]

In championships, all matches are equally important. In a football league your first and the last match both give 3 points. Same with elimination tournaments. In war, it obviously is not. The way i see it, time most likely had to work more and be more active, trying to organize their vaults, counters, decks, strategies for gazillion of matches. If only the last few rounds matter, this means most of the war has no real impact on the winner and it is not awarding the hard-worker.

Edit: I can say the same about earth and entropy. They were just better the whole event, they kept winning and got destroyed somehow even tho they didn't really lose many matches both fielding only their generals to final 4 rounds. I'm not saying only the final match but final four rounds. Dunno if it was really intended that "in war, the better performing teams should be punished exponentially and only last few rounds should matter regardless of their success". If it is, i stand corrected.

[majofa]

And then the teams that are left battle for the championship.

[hainkarga]

I'm gonna express it differently; if an underdog is in the finals, its achievement. If half the horde of underdogs are in the finals with the same or more advantages with the star performers, then it is a bug.

[Avenger]

I'm gonna express it differently; if an underdog is in the finals, its achievement. If half the horde of underdogs are in the finals with the same or more advantages with the star performers, then it is a bug.

As i see this, there have been several factors that caused earth (and possibly the other top teams) to stumble.
1. We lost some (more than one) key decks due to silly miscalculations. Obviously our rest of decks didn't work against the single deck that remained and kept opposing us. Take a look at round 5, and add a card to that immortal. Then look at matches after round 5, and use our immortal in some of the lost duels. We would have eliminated death, darkness and gravity for sure.
I don't know about light, though. But i guess, if we had more options, we would probably beat them too. This part wasn't a bug or caused by the event cards, though us getting darkness again an again as opponent surely helped us melt faster.

2. There is a spot in the vault size, where teams simply cannot win with all decks, this causes a collapse, after which they can stabilize at 5 or 6 decks, if they are lucky and salvage the right cards. It is probably not helpful to collapse among the last, because the other teams are all general/lt decks and your multiple decks could risk a total wipeout easily. This was further bittered by the nasty event card at the point of the last teams' collapses. It was almost sure to me that teams with 2 diverse decks will fare better than the top dogs, at that point.

I think, we would have still won the event if we don't mess it up at point #1, so i don't consider the whole outcome as a 'bug', But it is slightly embarrashing, that our top winrate (or 2nd place) was only enough for a 7th place.

[Onizuka]

So maybe we should have added that eternity in round 5 when I wanted one

And I don't get why people look down on a war that factors in losses more than wins. It doesn't matter how many wins you get if you can't win at the right times. You could have a 56-0 win rate, but if you lose to one team enough times to knock you out, then the team that managed to beat you time and time again deserves that higher places. In real wars, losses (in terms of troops) matter much more than wins in terms of how they effect the war. It doesn't matter if you're gaining 6 men everytime you win a battle, if you're losing 24 or 30 men each loss then the losses matter much more. There's no problem with that.

And its the teams own fault if they decide to not trim their vault down when they have the chance. Don't have to win every battle, just the key ones.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

Everyone makes mistakes in war and it's easy to say what one could've done better in hindsight. And since round 4 right up until I got beaten by Blonde we had 2 Eternities in our vault, mostly to scare off deckers, but thinking back it's stupid not to have added it to that Ghostmare against  a decker. So now imagine a perfect war where no one makes mistakes. You still would've lost, period. Except then it wouldn't have been through RNG (coin toss).

As soon as we lost our Grabow we no longer had the ability to properly deal with Bone Walls or Poison. So in the final round I already counted on beating Earth for a lack of a counter on their side and getting beaten by Death by the lack of a counter from our side. I still wonder what would've happened had we chosen to add more useful Darkness creatures rather than more upgrades round 8 (Vampires against Blonde? So much better and numerous than MPs and would've totally won us the war, or a suicide against Death in round 9? Leaving me with plenty of good Darkness cards in the final round), but just as much as one team can think of ways to win certain matches in hindsight, there're just as much ways their opponents would've wanted to reinforce those wins.

Though I think we're getting off-topic and that this belongs in voices of the fallen :P

[ralouf]

This war was good and I don't understand why people keep redoing the war in their mind and keep thinking that their team must have win the war if 'randomquoteabout RNG/deckchoice/strategy'.

Everyone made error in war and that's part of it and I think that this would have been less fun if nobody made error. Moreover they are some thing you just can't anticipate before they happen and that's quite easy to say I'm so stupid I should have think about it early..

That's like loosing when you play loto and then, when the winning number are revelated say awww fuck I knew I should have played those one.

[The_Mormegil]

This war was good and I don't understand why people keep redoing the war in their mind and keep thinking that their team must have win the war if 'randomquoteabout RNG/deckchoice/strategy'.

Everyone made error in war and that's part of it and I think that this would have been less fun if nobody made error. Moreover they are some thing you just can't anticipate before they happen and that's quite easy to say I'm so stupid I should have think about it early..

That's like loosing when you play loto and then, when the winning number are revelated say awww fuck I knew I should have played those one.

Resentment is always present in events like War. However, some things have been pointed out that are objectively (or at least, for the majority of people who voiced their opinion) a problem. Of course all those comments are mixed with whining and lamenting of our defeats, but that's to be expected in a feedback thread, really.

[ralouf]

Yeah sure I know the feeling we should make two separate thread : one for whinning and one for real feedback maybe ^^
Still it was a very good event ! Eventhough there will be always things that can be improved