*Author

Offline killsdazombies

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3321
  • Reputation Power: 54
  • killsdazombies brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.killsdazombies brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.killsdazombies brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.killsdazombies brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.killsdazombies brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.killsdazombies brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.killsdazombies brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.killsdazombies brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.killsdazombies brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.killsdazombies brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.
  • [04:50:35] GirlsGeneration: mewtwo's hot
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake2nd Trials - Master of LifeAnother Epic 3 Card Design Competition WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: Voices of the Fallen - eliminated teams discuss what went wrong https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17190.msg234832#msg234832
« Reply #96 on: December 28, 2010, 03:30:24 pm »
I think hrmmm, daxx, wizle willng and gl1tch did the best for team life, thank everyone who was on team life (including our rookie if you are still forum active)

Offline Sir Valimont

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 948
  • Reputation Power: 33
  • Sir Valimont is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Sir Valimont is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Sir Valimont is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Sir Valimont is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Sir Valimont is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Sir Valimont is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.
  • Awards: War #2 Winner - Team Entropy
Re: Voices of the Fallen - eliminated teams discuss what went wrong https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17190.msg234843#msg234843
« Reply #97 on: December 28, 2010, 03:54:53 pm »
Ok, I'm looking over Entropy's secret section and, where did they do all they're vault building?

Was everything done in a private chat?
We had an interactive, collaborative spreadsheet that we used called the EDU (Entropy Deck Utility), and a private chat channel as well. I have removed the links to our intelligence and deck building documents including EDU in order not to give away our strategic advantage (it probably was our biggest advantage in war).

If you're interested in some of the dialog on deckbuilding, you should look at the rounds before 9 and 10 ... for those rounds we were away at Christmas and spent very little time, if any, focused on Elements.

Offline kev

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3075
  • Reputation Power: 54
  • kev brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.kev brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.kev brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.kev brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.kev brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.kev brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.kev brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.kev brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.kev brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.kev brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.
  • Ungrounded
  • Awards: Winner of Team PvP #5Master of Multipliers - Scorgasm WinnerSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeChampionship League 1/2010 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament Winner2nd Trials - Master of FireFavorite Staff Member of 2011Weekly Tournament WinnerMVP of Draft #2Make a Quiz winnerTeam PvP #3 WinnerSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday CakeWeekly PvP Tournament WinnerWeekly PvP Tournament WinnerWar #1 Winner - Team Fire
Re: Voices of the Fallen - eliminated teams discuss what went wrong https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17190.msg234846#msg234846
« Reply #98 on: December 28, 2010, 04:00:48 pm »
Seriously, you were a WIZARD with the vault.
Dammit, I thought I was the only one who could say that to his Vault Organizer.
I think quite a few teams can.  I undervalued quite a few people during the draft, and I might put Boingo at the top of that list.

As far a where Fire fell short this War, allow me to quote jmdt quoting me:

The demise of :fire this war has been well planned, well thought out, well tested bad decisions.
I have removed the links to our intelligence and deck building documents including EDU in order not to give away our strategic advantage (it probably was our biggest advantage in war).
This is probably not a direct rule violation but it's definitely not in the spirit of the event.  Teams should not be allowed to remove strategy information... that's the whole point of making the forum public.  It's also irrelevant because it's unllikely you'll all be on the same team next War.

Offline Acsabi44

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1954
  • Country: hu
  • Reputation Power: 28
  • Acsabi44 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.Acsabi44 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.Acsabi44 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.Acsabi44 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.Acsabi44 is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.
  • Coming to get ya.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeBronze DonorWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner14 Club - Most Expensive players during War AuctionWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: Voices of the Fallen - eliminated teams discuss what went wrong https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17190.msg234893#msg234893
« Reply #99 on: December 28, 2010, 05:14:42 pm »
I think we fell because of two things (not independant from each other):

- My guess is that being the previous War-winner team, everybody did loads of intel about us and so they were well-prepared
and
- We were too predictable.
[17:04:00] Dragon6: ‹@Acsabi44› You are Rage Potion, Phase Dragon and Momentum all in one
Interested in game strategy,  theory and other kinds of advice? Clicky clicky!

Offline Dragoon1140

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1984
  • Reputation Power: 23
  • Dragoon1140 is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Dragoon1140 is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Dragoon1140 is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Dragoon1140 is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • New to Elements
Re: Voices of the Fallen - eliminated teams discuss what went wrong https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17190.msg234921#msg234921
« Reply #100 on: December 28, 2010, 06:25:27 pm »
I undervalued quite a few people during the draft, and I might put Boingo at the top of that list.
Boingo was amazingly helpful in doing the chores every round.  I sort of feel bad for not helping him enough, but I would be more than happy to have him on my War team again.

As for the deleting strategy, I don't see the use in it.  In my eyes, it's saying to everyone else "Hey, we beat you so bad that we aren't going to reveal how, even though none of us will be on the same team in War 3."  (ie the team will be split up among various teams, and the strategy will be spread around anyway, if it is really this good.)
Else known as "JonTheBon"

I also make videos and stuff.

Offline mrpaper

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2047
  • Country: ca
  • Reputation Power: 24
  • mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.mrpaper is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerHeir of the False GodsSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #8 Winner - Team FireSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeWar #7 Winner - Team AetherThe 2nd Avatar - Winner of the PvP EventWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake6th Trials - Master of EarthSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeWinner of the Harry Potter PvP House CupChampionship League 1/2012 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBeginners League 3/2011 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBeginners League 1/2011 3rd PlaceBeginners League 3/2010 3rd Place
Re: Voices of the Fallen - eliminated teams discuss what went wrong https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17190.msg234925#msg234925
« Reply #101 on: December 28, 2010, 06:31:49 pm »
Boingo really was amazing for us, especially since we we're almost doing tweakings at the last minute.  I tried to help him a few times with that since we had to re-do some decks after someone gives us his deck and we fell short on cards, but most of the credit is to him in taking the right decisions every time (or almost) with no or not enough testing.  Aether needs to thank you dearly and whoever gets you in next war will have no worries for vault!

Daxx

  • Guest
Re: Voices of the Fallen - eliminated teams discuss what went wrong https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17190.msg234929#msg234929
« Reply #102 on: December 28, 2010, 06:35:40 pm »
I have removed the links to our intelligence and deck building documents including EDU in order not to give away our strategic advantage (it probably was our biggest advantage in war).
This is probably not a direct rule violation but it's definitely not in the spirit of the event.  Teams should not be allowed to remove strategy information... that's the whole point of making the forum public.  It's also irrelevant because it's unllikely you'll all be on the same team next War.
I think SV is trying to increase his value to teams bidding on him next War.

That is if old members of Team Entropy don't/can't give away the secret.

Offline Glitch

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3730
  • Reputation Power: 65
  • Glitch walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.Glitch walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.Glitch walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.Glitch walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.Glitch walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.Glitch walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.Glitch walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.Glitch walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.Glitch walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.Glitch walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.Glitch walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.Glitch walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.Glitch walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.
  • Awards: 1st Trials - Master of LifeElements Short Story Competition WinnerPoetry in the Spirit of Elements
Re: Voices of the Fallen - eliminated teams discuss what went wrong https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17190.msg234952#msg234952
« Reply #103 on: December 28, 2010, 07:15:10 pm »
Honestly, entropy didn't win because of a well made vault.  Entropy did well because there was no such thing as a bad salvage for them.  Entropy, as an element, is chock a block full of control.  A successful deck for them was one hitter, (preferably quint'd), and enough control to stall for the win.  Every deck had discords and other forms of control to slow down the duo nature of their opponents decks, and then a few durable hitters like abominations and pheonixes and dragons to finish the job.

All they needed to get a good salvage was either A)  more control, or B) more damage.  If they got either of those things in salvage, they could use it.

Other elements, like water, had a far harder time with salvaging, which I personally believe led to their downfall.  Water duos extremely well with half the elements in the game, but outside those very specific strategies, water doesn't work well.  Another good example of this is earth, or in this war, death.  These three teams, because of the difficulty of their salvage, all had major climaxes in their strength, followed by huge crashes, and eventually their loss of the war.

The only "strategy" that allowed entropy to avoid this was how easily their element lends to rainbow.

On that note, strategically, the "climax" theory lends to the following strategy:
1)  Win the propaganda
2a)  Define the rock-paper-scissors decks (this war, firestall, rainbow rush, and discord).  Entropy succeeded in defining two of the three
2b)  Use your propaganda/salvage to build the rock-paper-scissors decks.  As these decks are the most common, the majority of salvages will assist you in rebuilding/enhancing them.
3)  Wait for the elements that failed in step 2 to climax and crash.  Without the three "staple" decks being the center of their vault, their salvages will eventually force them to deplete their own vault in the form of suicide.
4)  Last as long as you can versus those that succeeded in doing steps 2 and 3.

Another option would be to come up with a deck that defeats all three of the rock-paper-scissors decks, such as a fractal (faster than graboid rush) cockatrice (too tough to stall) with novas (beats discords).  I could sit here and argue that deck is undefeated and should have gone undefeated, but the data shows otherwise.  Current data shows this option is worse than the aforementioned method.

Entropy and fire did well because they defined the three decks.  Life, Fire, and Entropy did well because they adapted to them.  Looking at air's final decks, they were a discord deck, a rainbow rush, and another discord deck.  They also had two fire stall decks, in the form of a cremation rush with rainbow control, and an unstable gas deck with OEs.  They, too, succeeded because they adapted.

This is the main bit of "strategy" I learned from this war.

The only other thing I learned was the golden rule:  pendulums, pendulums, pendulums.  An off element pillar is a dead card in 10 out of 11 decks.  A pendulum can be used in any duo AND in a mono.

QuantumT

  • Guest
Re: Voices of the Fallen - eliminated teams discuss what went wrong https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17190.msg235027#msg235027
« Reply #104 on: December 28, 2010, 09:51:39 pm »
We had an interactive, collaborative spreadsheet that we used called the EDU (Entropy Deck Utility), and a private chat channel as well. I have removed the links to our intelligence and deck building documents including EDU in order not to give away our strategic advantage (it probably was our biggest advantage in war).
I think that removing the links to the strategy is against the spirit of the event. The reason that the private threads are opened up are so that other teams can look at them and improve, which makes the next war more interesting.

Offline hainkarga

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Country: tr
  • Reputation Power: 25
  • hainkarga is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.hainkarga is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.hainkarga is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.hainkarga is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.hainkarga is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerRent a deck - WinnerWinner of Team PvP #6Slice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeWar #6 Winner - Team AetherWar #5 Winner - Team AetherWinner of Sideboard #3 PvP Event
Re: Voices of the Fallen - eliminated teams discuss what went wrong https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17190.msg235044#msg235044
« Reply #105 on: December 28, 2010, 10:06:02 pm »
2a)  Define the rock-paper-scissors decks (this war, firestall, rainbow rush, and discord).  Entropy succeeded in defining two of the three
Out of the context, this step made me smile. We had a mono fire stall, multiple rainbow rushes and multiple discord decks. 5 out of 8 decks and almost all lost on our first round. I guess we assigned the decks to wrong opponents and had very bad luck.
Meritocratic Technocracy

Offline xdude

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3566
  • Reputation Power: 39
  • xdude is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.xdude is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.xdude is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.xdude is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.xdude is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.xdude is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.xdude is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.
  • Rage potting a light dragon only makes it stronger
  • Awards: 5th Trials - Master of Light2nd Trials - Master of Light1st Trials - Master of Light1st Place SS Competition #2
Re: Voices of the Fallen - eliminated teams discuss what went wrong https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17190.msg235047#msg235047
« Reply #106 on: December 28, 2010, 10:11:20 pm »
Seriously, you were a WIZARD with the vault.
Dammit, I thought I was the only one who could say that to his Vault Organizer.
I think quite a few teams can.  I undervalued quite a few people during the draft, and I might put Boingo at the top of that list.
Vault Organizer:
Wizardcat
Personal text by Cheesy
When I first started elements I was a noob. Now I'm a noob in only 11 parts of it. The unimportant ones.
Saying Elements cards are just pixels is like saying Dollars are just paper.

Offline Dragoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1551
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Dragoon hides under a Cloak.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWinner of Team PvP #5Winner of Rags to Riches - PvP Event
Re: Voices of the Fallen - eliminated teams discuss what went wrong https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17190.msg235113#msg235113
« Reply #107 on: December 28, 2010, 11:20:11 pm »
As curious as I am to see Sir Valimont's methodology to deck building et al., I think it is fair for him to keep the secret with his team.  And really, if all Entropy members share that methodology with their new teams in the succeeding Wars, it will only take a couple Wars before every team would have access to this system.  Of course, they would still need to be able to reproduce it on a technical level.

Basically, I think he should be able to get as much ROI as possible for his ingenuity and hard work.

 

anything
blarg: Wizardcat