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Community Card Design : Gaian vs Cthonic [Core Set - 17/17] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45540.msg1027258#msg1027258
« on: December 31, 2012, 10:47:45 pm »
PROJECT Gaian vs Cthonic : The Elemental Factions



Cthonic
:rainbowbig


Gaian

Cthonic/Gaian Marks by storyteller

Current Topic : Post Threads, Find Art
Current Card : 17/17

Welcome again to Gaian vs Cthonic. Due to messy design issues, I've locked and archived the old thread for posterity.

Put simply, we're trying to make an ETG expansions based around the following two factions :
Quote
Gaian is an aboveground faction of geneticists and druids, that focus on improving themselves and connecting with the divine. They value organics, nature, and chaotic forces such as the changing for seasons. Their central 'core' is the mechanic of Genesis Counters, which every Gaian wields and builds off of to constantly improve .

Cthonic is an underground faction of physicists and robots that prefer to not tread on the realm of the divine and prefer to recycle and repurpose what already exists. They value order, machinery, and stability in all facets of life, not just the simple force that keeps you on the ground. Their central 'core' is the theme of recycling/repurposing, in which cards trade some of kind of resource in order to improve other cards, or cards when destroyed create something new with a different purpose.

Here is the layout of the expansion - 17 cards total.

Spoiler for Core Set Structure:
Quote from: 'Core' Set Structure : 17/17
Central Design Element:
(These do not need to be present on every card but help to define the faction)
Gaian: Genesis counters (accumulate over time)
Cthonic:  Theme of recycling/repurposing

Gaian
Creatures:
[ :life Finished] [ :air Finished] [ :water Finished] [ :light Finished] [ :air Finished]
Permanents:
 [ :life Finished] [ :water Finished]
Spells
[ :entropy Finished]

Cthonic
Creatures:
[ :gravity Finished] [ :earth Finished] [ :darkness Finished] [ :gravity Finished]
Permanents:
[ :earth Finished] [ :gravity Finished] [ :fire Finished] [ :rainbow Finished]
Spells
[ :earth Finished]

I will be developing this series gradually and asking for feedback and development at http://sync.in/CIPGaianvsCthonic . Finished ideas will be posted here.

Right now I am open to suggestions for what card we should do next on the Core Set. If no suggestions are given I will pick a card on the design structure that I feel is appropriate.

Cards we have completed :
Spoiler for 1/17 Water - Gaian Spring (Gaian) - Posted:
Gaian Fountain (Thread)
Permanent
4 | 3 :water
:water : If target creature has taken damage or has a status effect, it gains a positive status effect.
Notes: Positive Status Effects : Immaterial, Cloak, Purify, Momentum, Adrenaline, Wisdom, Evasive (SoF), Reflective (Jade Shield, Reflective Shield),   Burrowed, Stone Form, Lycanthropy
Having counters (E.g. Poison) on a creature is treated as a 'status effect'. For a faction that uses counters, this creates a lot of synergy.
Spoiler for v1:
Gaian Spring
Permanent
4 | 3 :water
A random creature gains a Genesis counter when :water is generated.  Genesis counters cause creatures to adapt.
Info:  being targeted with negative effects will result in an appropriate  ability to be activated, or status effect to be gained.  Ability is  activated or status effecft is gained before negative effect takes  place, but will not stop the effect (except maybe Paradox losing to  Stone Form).  For each Genesis counter, 1 stat point is not added to the  Full stat, and stats revert by 1 point towards the Full stat each  turn.  Think of this as loss of traits due to technology (We lost a lot of body hair when we started to evolve to wearing clothes), and the  drain of stats is due to perhaps thematically damage to said technology,  and lack of the spell being recast is lack of maintenance..
 Adaptations  :  Voodoo, Quint, Adrenaline,  Momentum, Wisdom, Purify, Reflectivity,  Evasive, Burrowed status, Stone  Form (+0 | +20), Lycanthropy (+5 | +5).

Spoiler for 2/17 Fire - Scrap Forge (Cthonic) - Posted:
Scrap Forge (Thread)
Permanent
4 | 3 :fire
Starts with 1 stack. Gains one stack when a card is destroyed.
0: remove a stack to add +1|+1 to a creature. This skill can be used multiple times per turn.
Note : Works like Bonewall - when it runs out of stacks it is destroyed.

Spoiler for 3/17 Darkness - Shadow Skimmer (Cthonic) - Posted:
Shadow Skimmer (Thread)
Creature
4 | 3 :darkness
4 | 1
Enters play cloaked for 3 turns.
On death, spawn a Shade Infiltrator.

Shade Infiltrator
3 | 2 :darkness
2 | 1
Enters play cloaked. (Only cloak removal effects can remove this card's cloak.)

Spoiler for 4/17 Gravity - Graviton Deployer (Cthonic) - Posted:
Graviton Deployer (Thread)
Creature
7 | 8 :gravity
5 | 5 / 7 | 7
:gravity Deploy Squad: Generate 3 Teams and gain -2 | -2.
U : :gravity  :gravity Deploy Platoon: Generate 3 Squads and gain -3|-3.

Team | Squad
Creature
1 :gravity
2 | 2 / 3 | 3
:gravity Sacrifice Team: Reinforce.
Target creature gains Team's stats.

Spoiler for 5/17 Entropy - Radiation Leak (Gaian):
Radiation Leak
4 | 3 :entropy
Spell
All allied creatures get +1 | +1 until the end of your next turn and may be mutated. Your creatures with Genesis Counters get a random positive status effect. (Wisdom,  Momentum, Adrenaline, Quintessence, Purify, etc...)  (Positive Status is permanent. Ignores Immaterial.)
Place a Genesis Counter on each creature you control.
Notes:
The first copy you play typically won't give a status effect bonus because the counter placement occurs -after- it checks for Genesis counters.
Mutation chance is 15% per creature.

Spoiler for 6/17 Other - Cthonic Scrapyard (Cthonic):
Cthonic Scrapyard | Cthonic Depot
2 | 1 Other
Generates 3 random quanta per turn. Add a stack when a permanent is destroyed.
Notes : Is not a pillar, but can stack like a Shard or Bonewall. Earthquake will only trigger as 1 permanent destroyed not 3.
Effect stacks. Targeting Scrapyard itself will not cause the effect to trigger.

Spoiler for 7/17 Life - Ooze Pool | Ooze Garden (Gaian):
Ooze Pool | Ooze Garden
Permanent
4 | 3 :life
At the end of each turn, add a Genesis counter.
:life : Remove all counters to spawn an X/X Ooze creature, where X is the # of counters removed.

Spoiler for 8/17 Air- Rukh Egg | Roc Egg (Gaian):
Rukh Egg | Roc Egg
3 | 2 :air 
0 | 3
At the end of each turn, add a Genesis counter. At 3 counters, sacrifice and spawn a 7/7 Rukh | Roc creature with Nourish.
:life - Nourish -  Target card gains a Genesis counter.
Notes : Rukh | Roc is airborne and costs 7 :air.

Spoiler for 9/17 Life - Wurm Demolisher (Gaian):
Wurm Demolisher
5 | 4 :life
3 | 6
When played, starts with a Genesis counter.
1 Genesis Counter: Target permanent breaks and gains the skill 3 Other: Repair.

Spoiler for 10/17 Earth - Wurm Bomber (Cthonic):
Wurm Bomber
5 | 4 :earth
6 | 3
Enters play poisoned. When Wurm Bomber dies, destroy 2 random enemy permanents.
Notes: Since Cthonic is likely to be  throwing a lot of stat debuffs around on its own creatures and triggering off destroyed things chances are there will need to be 'fodder' for the debuffing and sacrificing. That's where cards like these come in, to be  beatsticks in some cases and sacrifice/debuff fodder for other Cthonic cards.

Spoiler for 11/17 Gravity - Machine-Eater Ooze (Cthonic):
Machine-Eater Ooze
3 :gravity
2 | 5
2 :gravity - Eat (Sacrifice) a permanent to gain +X|+X until end of turn.  X is target pemanent's casting cost, plus 5.
Notes on Temporary HP: Damage from status effects is mitigated, but damage  from shields (Fire Buckler) is taken after HP is removed.  Still leaves  the creature completely vulnerable to CC spells, since HP is removed at  the end of your turn.  Temporary HP will also heal the creature, only removing HP until it is equal to or less than "FULL HP".  Temporary Attack: Stays the same unless an attack-reducing effect is avtive (like Steam or Dive)

Spoiler for 12/17 Earth - Blasting Quarry (Cthonic):
Blasting Quarry
4 | 3 :earth
Permanent
Generates :earth each turn.
:fire :fire - Sacrifice a creature, deal twice its ATK + 5 as damage to the enemy player. Repeatable.

Spoiler for 13/17 Gravity - Cthonic Compressor (Cthonic):
Cthonic Compressor
4 :gravity | 3 :gravity
Permanent
0: Sacrifice target card, gain Quanta equal to it's quanta cost plus 1.

Spoiler for 14/17 Earth - Iridium Blueprint | Vanadium Blueprint (Cthonic):
Iridium Blueprint | Vanadium Blueprint
4 | 3 :earth
Spell
Destroy target permanent to spawn an 2X | 2X Iridium Tunneler | Vanadium Tunneler creature with :earth : Burrow on the owner's side of the field.
X = Permanent's Casting cost.
Note : Owner of the permanent gets the Tunneler.

Spoiler for 15/17 Light - Genetic Priest (Gaian):
Genetic Priest
3 | 2 :light
Creature
2 | 1
If Genetic Priest would be destroyed, remove a Genesis counter from it instead.
2 :light : Place a Genesis Counter on target card. It cannot be destroyed this turn

Spoiler for 16/17 Water - Pistol Shrimp (Gaian):
Pistol Shrimp
2 :water
Creature
1 | 1
Gains a Genesis Counter each turn.
1 Genesis Counter -  Target creature takes 1 damage. Repeatable.

Spoiler for 17/17 Air - Gustclaw Angel (Gaian):
Gustclaw Angel
4 :air
Creature
1 | 4
Gains a Genesis Counter each turn.
:air : Gust -: Target creature gets +X | +0 until the end of the turn.  X = # of [Genesis counters].

Goals :
1) Make sure Gaian and Cthonic are properly defined -  I realized that there are issues with Gaian and Cthonic's thematic interpretation, especially in regards to exactly 'What is Cthonic?'

To clarify :
Gaian is an aboveground faction of geneticists and druids, that focus on improving themselves and connecting with the divine. They value organics, nature, and chaotic forces such as the changing for seasons. Their central 'core' is the mechanic of Genesis Counters, which every Gaian wields and builds off of to constantly improve .

Cthonic is an underground faction of physicists and robots that prefer to not tread on the realm of the divine and prefer to recycle and repurpose what already exists. They value order, machinery, and stability in all facets of life, not just the simple force that keeps you on the ground. Their central 'core' is the theme of recycling/repurposing, in which cards trade some of kind of resource in order to improve other cards, or cards when destroyed create something new with a different purpose.

Feel free to read the old thread if you want further inspiration and ideas. However, the above definitions should be seen as the baseline for this project.

2) Solidify Core Set - Not all elements will appear in the first part of the Gaian/Cthonic conflict. Cards and elements that don't fit should be saved for a secondary core set.
3) Get more activity into the project, make it more organized - Special thanks to Storyteller and OldTrees for keeping the old thread alive for so long; however, I want this to be a Community Project where everyone gives input, and it turns out chat was bursting full of ideas with several different users making several valid points. If you all can contribute your opinions at some point, I would greatly appreciate it. If possible, I ask that this isn't viewed as an event just for card designers, but for everyone - PvPers, Off-topic Writers, and newbies can share their thoughts alike on game impact, lore, and card appeal, as long as you're constructively helping the project.

Two subtopics will be created to specifically develop Gaian and Cthonic and are linked below.

Elemental Faction : Gaian
Elemental Faction : Cthonic

This thread is for discussion of the project in general and anything that pertains to both factions. If you want to join and help out, post here!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 04:38:09 pm by Zblader »

Offline ZephyrPhantomTopic starter

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Re: Community Card Design : PROJECT Gaian vs Cthonic [Solidify Core Set] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45540.msg1028173#msg1028173
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 11:27:08 pm »
Alright, since there's been a lack of activity on this I'd like to start off with solidifying the core set.

Here is the intended layout. Once we are sure of the final core structure I will start focusing the threads on designing their respective cards.
Quote from: 'Core' Set Structure : 0/16
Central Design Element:
(These do not need to be present on every card but help to define the faction)
Gaian: Genesis counters (accumulate over time)
Cthonic:  Theme of recycling/repurposing

Gaian
Creatures:
 :life :air
Permanents:
 :life :air :earth :water :light
Spells
 :entropy

Cthonic
Creatures:
 :gravity :earth :darkness
Permanents:
 :earth :gravity :fire :rainbow
Spells
 :fire
Current Suggestions:
- Give Gaian another :earth card (Both factions are deeply rooted in nature)

Please give your thoughts on what changes should be made to the current cards in the core set's layout.

Offline Pineapple

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Re: Community Card Design : Gaian vs Cthonic [Goal : Solidify Core Set] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45540.msg1028201#msg1028201
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2013, 01:19:14 am »
Current Suggestions:
- Give Gaian another :earth card (Both factions are deeply rooted in nature)

Ah.. that's a really edit:vague order, sir.

Well, guess I'll try to kick this off:

Quote
Stone of Genesis
2 :earth, Permanent
Each creature gains 1 Genesis Counter per turn.
When a creature dies, this gains its counters.

@Everyone: Discuss, or suggest your own mechanics.
How am I doing on theme?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 06:30:41 am by Pineapple »

Offline ZephyrPhantomTopic starter

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Re: Community Card Design : Gaian vs Cthonic [Goal : Solidify Core Set] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45540.msg1028268#msg1028268
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2013, 06:12:48 am »
Current Suggestions:
- Give Gaian another :earth card (Both factions are deeply rooted in nature)

Ah.. that's a really order, sir.
To clarify, the suggestions section is for suggestions that people have made to the core set. I just included the one about :earth from a chat conversation.
Well, guess I'll try to kick this off:

Quote
Stone of Genesis
2 :earth, Permanent
Each creature gains 1 Genesis Counter per turn.
When a creature dies, this gains its counters.

@Everyone: Discuss, or suggest your own mechanics.
How am I doing on theme?
Workable within the series, but I'm a little skeptical of Genesis counter cards that are dead cards without anything else to support them. I would prefer something like :
"Gaian Heartstone
4-5 :earth, Permanent
Each creature gains +0 |+1 per turn."

if you really wanted to incorporate the Genesis counter mechanic into the card, I would suggest something like :

"Gaian Lifesun
4-5 :light,  Permanent
Each creature gains 1 Genesis Counter per turn.
0 : Remove a Genesis counter from target creature to give it +3 | +3 until end of turn. "

Your version of the card seems more :time or :life given the long term investment/cell growth or recycling vibes I get from the card.

Offline Pineapple

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Re: Community Card Design : Gaian vs Cthonic [Goal : Solidify Core Set] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45540.msg1028273#msg1028273
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2013, 06:33:43 am »
Wait, you mean something like whether or not Gaian should have an Earth creature/spell?

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Re: Community Card Design : Gaian vs Cthonic [Goal : Solidify Core Set] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45540.msg1028274#msg1028274
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2013, 06:36:18 am »
Wait, you mean something like whether or not Gaian should have an Earth creature/spell?
Yes.

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Re: Community Card Design : PROJECT Gaian vs Cthonic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45540.msg1028519#msg1028519
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2013, 09:34:12 pm »
 
:earth The War of the EarthSpring :earth
The Terrean Conflict


Long ago, some many thousands of years, before the Half-Bloods were born, before the Elemental Planes broke into fragments, there was a tribe who lived by a river. These were Terreans, and they lived in peace. They made bowls of clay and lived in mud daub houses and ate fruits and nuts and the occasional fish and small game. Their lives were filled with wonder and magic. They prayed to the Divine Creator, who lived in heaven above, whose life was in all things, shining down from heaven. All was well for many generations.

One day, in the village square, there was a man, discussing the nature of the god with his fellow tribesman. He said, "The divine spirit, is above us in heaven, away from us. It is better than us, here, trapped at the earth." His friend disagreed, claiming the divine spirit was in all things, even us, in all life. The two began to quarrel and soon people began to line up behind one man or the other, taking sides with who they thought was right. By nightfall, it was too late, the tribe had split, and the outspoken man took half the village with him.

That night, the Wise Speaker led his people into the mountains, upriver from the village and they took refuge in a cave. The next morning, the remaining tribe, the followers of the Great Spirit did not have enough people to hunt or fish or fix houses. They moved into the nearby forest and lived on what they could gather. Thus were founded the two tribes where there had been one. One following the Wise Speaker, the other, living together, each of them living in harmony with the Great Spirit as they saw fit.

Now at the head of the mountain trail, there was a canyon, and a mighty spring flowed from the earth that fed the river. The Cave Tribe moved up river, and found a cave at the back of the canyon. They began carving a city within the mountains. This spring fed the river that flowed through the forest and near the Forest Tribe's homes. In time, they built huts high in the trees.

Things were peaceful for a time, with each tribe living according to its beliefs apart from each other. Hundreds of years passed, and the tribes grew into city states. The Cave tribe had selected a leader, a Heirophant, a wise speaker, an intermediary between man and god, to lead them. He followed the teachings and led the people through order and stability, with discipline as hard as the stone around them. They had long found the water beneath the ground that fed the spring. One day, they diverted the water to their own needs and left the forest in a strangle hold.

The Forest tribe lived in the bounty of the soil. Ever changing seasons of life springing from the ground, fed by air and water and sunlight, blessed by the divinity of the Great Spirit. They sought wisdom through the Eidolon, a spirit of their will and ancestors that remained to guide them in accordance with the Great Spirit, a manifestation of the divine. With the river dried up, they were left to seek an answer from the Cave tribe over what happened. The two leaders met at the ancient spring and did their best to hash out their differences, but they could not see eye to eye. The Cave Tribe, now the Cthonic 'beneath dwellers' had changed the natural order of things. The Forest tribe, now Gaian 'naturalists' had no choice to engage in conflict to restore the flow of water.

A great battle ensued, lasting many weeks, but finally, the hold on the EarthSpring had been broken, and water flowed once again. The cthonic were pushed back into their caves, deeper underground and could not reach the valley of the Earthspring for many years. Wars waged off and on for centuries, now thousands of years later, the Cthonic have developed strong machines of metal and order, the Gaian have begun to weave the myriad of life around them into new and sometimes Strange Forms. The the War of the EarthSpring continues, as these two factions of Elemental warriors and scientists and magicians engage in battle for this sacred Cairn, this Node of Elemental Power.



EarthSpring
Permanent | Battleground
Earth :earth
5 :earth
Non-Faction Specific
Your creatures gain +1|+0 when attacking, Earth Creatures gain +2|+0
Either player may pay the casting cost to gain control of this Permanent. Only one may be in play at any time.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 09:36:49 pm by storyteller »

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Re: Community Card Design : Gaian vs Cthonic [Core Set Card 1 - Gaian Earth] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45540.msg1028573#msg1028573
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2013, 12:38:37 am »
Thanks for the lore, storyteller. I'm open to other interpretations of the backstory as well as long as they don't mess with the base definition.

It seems like we're focusing on an :earth Earth :earth Gaian's permanent card first, so I've decided to make the first card we will concentrate design on.

Here what we have suggested so far:

Quote
Stone of Genesis
2 :earth, Permanent
Each creature gains 1 Genesis Counter per turn.
When a creature dies, this gains its counters.
Quote
EarthSpring
Permanent | Battleground
Earth :earth
5 :earth
Non-Faction Specific
Your creatures gain +1|+0 when attacking, Earth Creatures gain +2|+0
Either player may pay the casting cost to gain control of this Permanent. Only one may be in play at any time.
(Note : I am aware this card^ is faction-neutral. However the other two suggestions suggest we're aiming for a Gaian :earth card with similar ideas of a mass-buff, so I decided to group it with there for now.)
Quote
"Gaian Heartstone
4-5 :earth, Permanent
Each creature gains +0 |+1 per turn."

if you really wanted to incorporate the Genesis counter mechanic into the card, I would suggest something like :

"Gaian Lifesun
4-5 :light,  Permanent
Each creature gains 1 Genesis Counter per turn.
0 : Remove a Genesis counter from target creature to give it +3 | +3 until end of turn. "

Similarities :
- All cards are :earth mass-buffs
- Mass buff will likely result in some kind of ATK/HP boost (assuming there is a separate Genesis counter card that mass buffs w/counters)
- Could be elementshifted. Darkness is the only element to possess an ATK/HP boosting 'field' card, and the idea of a mass-buffing sun for Light is feasible as shown by other threads.
- Could be non-faction-aligned, if everyone agrees with the theme.

For everyone reading this thread:
Do you think any of the above three do an effective job at making an :earth mass-buff card? If so, why?
Are there alternatives to Genesis counters and/or stat boosts that you feel would better?
Is this card Gaian, Cthonic, or neither? (Think in both mechanics and theme.)
Should this card be elementshifted to another element? (An explanation helps)

All feedback is welcome on the project, so feel free to comment on other future parts of the series in addition to the current card.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 12:43:37 am by Zblader »

Offline storyteller

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Re: Community Card Design : Gaian vs Cthonic [Core Set Card 1 - Earth Permanent] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45540.msg1028597#msg1028597
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2013, 01:57:14 am »
I would prefer if you didnt place EarthSpring in a group. It is the one shared card and is a Location, with mechanics for that. It should be done outside of the factions. This, in a fundamental way, is a battle over the Earth element. Future faction wars are likely to arise over other elements, with similar Locations or Battlefield. I dont care if EarthSpring changes, but it should be the place the two factions are fighting over, not a part of either one.

I have said before, Id like it if neither faction actually had an Earth card.

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Re: Community Card Design : Gaian vs Cthonic [Core Set Card 1 - Earth Permanent] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45540.msg1029763#msg1029763
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 04:20:34 am »
After reading the Description of Gaian the thought that comes to mind is a High Valley Vineyard(Orchard). All I got is the theme nothing more.
If Nowhere is Somewhere, and Somewhere is Over there, How can we be Anywhere?
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Offline ZephyrPhantomTopic starter

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Re: Community Card Design : Gaian vs Cthonic [Core Set Card 2 - What Card Next?] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45540.msg1030110#msg1030110
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2013, 09:29:36 pm »
Card 1/16 ( :water permanent ) of the Core Set has been finished.
Quote
Gaian Spring
Permanent
4 | 3 :water
A random creature gains a Genesis counter when :water is generated.  Genesis counters cause creatures to adapt.
Info:  being targeted with negative effects will result in an appropriate  ability to be activated, or status effect to be gained.  Ability is  activated or status effecft is gained before negative effect takes  place, but will not stop the effect (except maybe Paradox losing to  Stone Form).  For each Genesis counter, 1 stat point is not added to the  Full stat, and stats revert by 1 point towards the Full stat each  turn.  Think of this as loss of traits due to technology (We lost a lot of body hair when we started to evolve to wearing clothes), and the  drain of stats is due to perhaps thematically damage to said technology,  and lack of the spell being recast is lack of maintenance..
 Adaptations  :  Voodoo, Quint, Adrenaline,  Momentum, Wisdom, Purify, Reflectivity,  Evasive, Burrowed status, Stone  Form (+0 | +20), Lycanthropy (+5 | +5).

I am open to suggestions for what card we should do next on the Core Set. If no suggestions are given I will pick a card on the design structure that I feel is appropriate.

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Re: Community Card Design : Gaian vs Cthonic [Core Set Card 2 - What Card Next?] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45540.msg1030145#msg1030145
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2013, 11:17:50 pm »
a cthonic permanent. I say fire?

 

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