Elements PvP Tournament - Suggestions and Feedback

[Marsu]

I'm sorry, but it's really not hard at all to check your deck. The TOs even post a deck picture of banned & allowed cards. For said tournament, you had to do the following things:

-Does my deck only contain creatures of this certain list?
-Does my deck not contain spells from this other list?
-Dos my deck not contain Pends or QP?
-Does my mark not match any creatures element?

... That takes 40 seconds and requires an IQ of 70.

[Onizuka]

There will also be rules that are probably difficult to code, like the male/female tournament. The amount of work for it only to be used one week is a lot.

It's simply easier to have TOs check high ranking decks (not to mention if they make a mistake, it highlights a bigger flaw overall than a tool's mistake).

[Dm]

Or y'know, people could actually read the rules of the tournament and pay a bit of attention to what they're building instead of clicking the cards and cause a possible disruption of the event later on.

We have deck codes with banned and allowed cards, it's really, really not that hard to look at it.

I don't know, really; not too long ago, we didn't even have the banned/allowed images, rules were about as restricting as they are now, and the amount of illegal decks were way lower than what we have now.

This tournament's rules were as simple as matching colors. "Red goes with red.. blue goes with blue.."
Used fire (red) in your deck, and it's a creature, no fire mark for you.

How come one can miss that goes beyond me, unless that person just took a glance at the rules and then said "Okay, time to build the deck!"

[Calindu]

I think we should post examples of decks allowed and decks not allowed, it's pretty easy.
But I think there should be a new rule: Have a member to check all the decks that won, if a deck is illegal, it's counted as a loss.

[Blacksmith]

Well I think there is a easy way to solve this problem. Many people enter tourneys not only cause it's fun but since you can win a prize. So if you enter a tourney and don't really pay attention to the rules you can still win prizes but if you wouldn't I'm sure people would triple check there decks.

[RootRanger]

3.7 - Deck check
After finishing a match, both players need to send their decks used in that match to a Tournament Organizer via chat PM. Players need to clearly state which deck is used in each game. If a deck is found to be illegal, an auto-loss will be awarded for that game. If a player is found to be using illegal decks on purpose, it will be treated as cheating. Please refer to rule 4.3 for more details.

Both players? Why does it matter if your deck is illegal if you lost anyways?
Only the winner of the match should submit decks. It saves time.

[Absol]

3.7 - Deck check
After finishing a match, both players need to send their decks used in that match to a Tournament Organizer via chat PM. Players need to clearly state which deck is used in each game. If a deck is found to be illegal, an auto-loss will be awarded for that game. If a player is found to be using illegal decks on purpose, it will be treated as cheating. Please refer to rule 4.3 for more details.

Both players? Why does it matter if your deck is illegal if you lost anyways?
Only the winner of the match should submit decks. It saves time.

This is not needed anyway if we can work on honor code.
Sigh. People these days...

[Dm]

Lol.

3.7 - Deck check
After finishing a match, both players need to send their decks used in that match to a Tournament Organizer via chat PM. Players need to clearly state which deck is used in each game. If a deck is found to be illegal, an auto-loss will be awarded for that game. If a player is found to be using illegal decks on purpose, it will be treated as cheating. Please refer to rule 4.3 for more details.

Because you obviously can't change your deck on purpose to make it legal when you're scared that you are going to lose. If you're gonna be suspicious...
In case it is caught by a player that said deck is illegal, he or she can say he or she modified the deck and did not notice that failure.

Yup, I said it. How can you find that "a player is using illegal decks on Purpose"? After all, he or she can easily say it was non-intentional.

Clarification, please?

[RootRanger]

This is not needed anyway if we can work on honor code.
Sigh. People these days...

It's not needed at all, whatsoever. That's just a much more difficult argument to make, and I really am not in the mood to do so. Plus, the people who created such rule are the ones losing the most time from it, so no one is suffering unjustly.

An honor code is, of course, a terrible idea not only because the cheating prevented by 3.7 is accidental, but also because an honor code is unenforceable.

The excessively nebulous statement you conclude with is quite ironic given that you yourself are one of the "people these days," so I suppose I'll at least give you credit for your accidental literary mediocrity. Viable job, I guess.

Because you obviously can't change your deck on purpose to make it legal when you're scared that you are going to lose. If you're gonna be suspicious...
In case it is caught by a player that said deck is illegal, he or she can say he or she modified the deck and did not notice that failure.

Yup, I said it. How can you find that "a player is using illegal decks on Purpose"? After all, he or she can easily say it was non-intentional.

Clarification, please?

Yep. QFT.

[dragonsdemesne]

It wouldn't help much to send codes, since you could send a code that's different from the deck you were using anyway.  (if the illegal deck is intentional)  It would only catch the people who are using illegal decks unintentionally. 

For example (and maybe RootRanger remembers this) I once used a deck against him in a tourney that was illegal by mistake; I hadn't read the rules carefully and I used more of a certain card (cockatrice) than I was supposed to have.  At the end of the game, he said something to me along the lines of "I don't want to make accusations, but it was surprising the number of early cockatrices that you drew" because I'd played the allowable number in less than the top half of my deck, and I had a bunch more in the deck that I hadn't realized was illegal.  I rechecked the rules and realized that not only was he right to be suspicious, but that I had used an illegal deck.  (and funnily enough, lost the game anyway :p)  Basically, what I'm saying is that accidental cheating will probably be caught, either by the opponent or even admitted by the accidental cheater themselves.  (in this example, both)  A deliberate cheater in my situation would have said something like 'lol, rng', and submitted a deck to the TO that only had the legal number of cockatrices, and some pillars or something else instead in place of the illegal cards.

[Spielkind]

blablabla

i guess you guys are missing the point here... this rule is, obvious, a rule stated for situations like last tourney, where blarp goes through the tourney with the same illegal deck and NONE of his opponents saw it... now the TO´s can check decks, loosing and winning, cause so they can give the loosing player some experience in how building decks and how not.

cheating, and changing decks during winning a game illegal, you cant find out, but thats not the point, i think! as long as zanz did not manage to make a tounrey-pvp-server where TOs can make thinks like changing deck-rules, there seems no legit way to do so.

[Jen-i]

I've had my share of "Oh Shit!" moments in tournaments - seems to me that more than once I've heard majofa say "GG!" early in the game after destroying his cards or securing a huge lead only to realize that I built an illegal deck and that pendulum or immolation is illegal and just lost me the game.

I think of myself as a reasonably good deck builder, but sometimes I make mistakes, I miss a rule or misunderstand one. Often because I'm building on the fly and forget something. It happens and having an additional means of catching the mistake is a good thing. However I've got a few comments about the new rules.

1) The rule does nothing at all to stop people who plan on cheating. It just adds one additional layer of deception needed to do so. Tournaments will remain governed by the honour system in large part because the deck building rules generally cannot be enforced - its a limitation in what the software can do.

2) I as a deck builder can make a mistake when deck building - a Tournament Organizer who has to look over 100+ decks during a typical tourney can also make a mistake. How does it get handled in that case?

3) I don't like it that the optimal play when you know your opponent has played an illegal deck not to tell them and hope they play it a second time - at which point the'll receive an auto-loss from the T.O. deck filter. (And what happens if the T.O. makes a mistake at this point missing their illegal deck)

I like the additional layer to make sure that an accidentally illegal deck doesn't win a match - but I'm worried that the T.O.'s will get overloaded by a flood of decks and either miss things or slow down tourney play (I'm assuming you can't begin your next match-up until after a T.O. gives both players the go ahead to do so)