Elements 1.4

[dawn to dusk]

I tried using a fully upped deck in trainer but the cards automatically went unupped. Does this mean you can win upped cards but cannot use them until you finish all the quests? It seems an ok way to balance it out...

[Marsu]

Does this mean you can win upped cards but cannot use them until you finish all the quests? It seems an ok way to balance it out...

That doesn't seem like an ok way to "balance it out" at all.
Luckily, I also doubt that it is planned to be that way.

[Blacksmith]

Does this mean you can win upped cards but cannot use them until you finish all the quests? It seems an ok way to balance it out...

That doesn't seem like an ok way to "balance it out" at all.
Luckily, I also doubt that it is planned to be that way.

It's just now in the beginning. I fought many ai2 they all give 2 upped spins in the map while they give 2 un upped in elements. I think that Zanz schould lowever the lv of un upped decks that is submitted with 100hp with 10 lv's, would make it much more balanced.

[Keeps]

It depends on the level region I found.  If you are in the element colored areas and not no mans land, your deck is autounupped.  Also you can't win upped cards from the spins.  As soon as you hit no mans land upped can be used and won.

[treebeard xiii]

It depends on the level region I found.  If you are in the element colored areas and not no mans land, your deck is autounupped.  Also you can't win upped cards from the spins.  As soon as you hit no mans land upped can be used and won.

wrong you can win ups from third tier decks i won 2 fire lance and 1 explosion i was winning these from level 30 fire decks iirc the npcs were ignis and spiritblaze.

[Keeps]

When I fought level thirties they were in the no mans land zones. 

EDIT: Just verified I was right, you do not get an upped spin until level 30, and there no creatures in the colored zones at level 30.  I went through 3 page refreshes and walked the zones each time.  The NPCs even Cited are level 30 NPCs right now and in the no mans areas.

[TheManuz]

Hello, Zanzarino!
I know you said there will be new cards and i know that you're busy with the new NPC/Map system.

However, when you will evaluate new cards to be added, what's your opinion on alternative quanta generators?

I think we really need some ways to efficiently play trios or quads or more, and the community produced some viable (and not overpowered) alternatives.
More way to produce quanta would mean a more varied meta with the existing card pool.
It will also strengthens (indirectly) permanent control and salvagers as a consequence.

[Higurashi]

It depends on the level region I found.  If you are in the element colored areas and not no mans land, your deck is autounupped.  Also you can't win upped cards from the spins.  As soon as you hit no mans land upped can be used and won.

wrong you can win ups from third tier decks i won 2 fire lance and 1 explosion i was winning these from level 30 fire decks iirc the npcs were ignis and spiritblaze.

Odd, 'cause I put no ups in Spiritblaze. Maybe they were only from Ignis.

But yeah, I find ups are -way- too easy to get still. I started out as Life this time in the development page. Made Adrenafrogs and went on to beat the Peon Blue Crawler and Minor Elf (who is not very minor btw) over and over. Not only do I get a whopping 35-ish electrum and score (which is extremely lucrative compared to the NPC's around the Aether area), but I also get to spin for one upgrade. Within 20m, I had a Minor Abom and 10m later I had 500 score.

Selling my Minor Abom, I built MA and went to easily defeat a Fire Elemental (lvl 46) and lo and behold, I get to spin for TWO upgrades.

[treebeard xiii]

It depends on the level region I found.  If you are in the element colored areas and not no mans land, your deck is autounupped.  Also you can't win upped cards from the spins.  As soon as you hit no mans land upped can be used and won.

wrong you can win ups from third tier decks i won 2 fire lance and 1 explosion i was winning these from level 30 fire decks iirc the npcs were ignis and spiritblaze.

Odd, 'cause I put no ups in Spiritblaze. Maybe they were only from Ignis.

But yeah, I find ups are -way- too easy to get still. I started out as Life this time in the development page. Made Adrenafrogs and went on to beat the Peon Blue Crawler and Minor Elf (who is not very minor btw) over and over. Not only do I get a whopping 35-ish electrum and score (which is extremely lucrative compared to the NPC's around the Aether area), but I also get to spin for one upgrade. Within 20m, I had a Minor Abom and 10m later I had 500 score.

Selling my Minor Abom, I built MA and went to easily defeat a Fire Elemental (lvl 46) and lo and behold, I get to spin for TWO upgrades.

I know neither ignis or spiritblaze have ups but their level automatically upps the cards in the deck for spins. This i disagree with if a deck has no upped cards you shouldn't be able to win pps from it as unupped decks a majority are easier to beat.

[Higurashi]

Agreed, that makes no sense. Especially if lvl 30 is supposed to be equivalent to the current lvl 3. Even with lvl 4 you only got a small chance to win ups, yet with this automatic upgrading for spins you have a very big chance for it after beating a much easier opponent.

And even if lvl 30 was supposed to be harder than lvl 3... it isn't. They're easier because most have 50 HP or around that. This can, of course, be fixed by selecting the lvl 30-ish decks better, which will happen long before it goes live of course.

[Keeps]

Here's my suggested breakdown
Unupped decks only,
0-10 1 no-rares, unupped spin
11-20 2 no-rares, unupped spin
21-30 3 no-rares, unupped spin, clearing the area gives special spin for unupped rare weapon
upped decks
30-40 3 rares included unupped spins, clearing the area gives special spin for unupped all rares
40-50 2 upped spins, clearing the area gives special weapons only upped spin
50-60 3 upped spins, clearing the area gives special all rares upped spin
60-70 3 upped spins, clearing the area gives 2 special spins upped spin
80+ 3 special spins upped spins all rares.


Pick it apart.

[Mathematistic]

The upgrade problem can be solved by, well, MATH.

IMO we need to revamp the approx. level formula. Right now it is plain addition, right?
Multiplication and peicewise-defined functions will solve a lot of things.

All numbers can be changed:

There could be a base lv of 30 for an elemental with 100 HP and 0 ups.
For HP: (a)
0-100 HP: (current HP/100)^2.5
for 101-300HP: (current HP/100)
for each extra 20HP above 300, add 1 to (x)

For Marks: (b)
(Mark multiplier)^0.6

For Card Draws: (c)
(Card draw multiplier)^0.7

Upgrades: For every 13.3% of the deck upgraded, add 1 to (x)

Resultant lv: r = 30*a*b*c +x

You could smooth the function out if you like. Basically what I am suggesting is that add a quadratic-to-cubic multiplier for HP at low HP (1-100) so that this cannot be exploited. For moderately high HP the multiplier should be linear. But to prevent ridiculous numbers to be created, for even higher numbers, the HP should follow the current addition system. For mark/card draw multiplier, since the marginal benefit of having those diminishes, adopting a concave curve makes sense for determining level.

Here's my 2 .

Oh, and, back to the unused card problem:

Some cards are just plain outclassed, and not redeemable by any meta shift. See cockatrice/giant frog, or phase salvager/ball lightning, as 2 examples that came right to my head. Meta-shifts will only make cards that at least occupy a niche become a centrepiece. But for niche-less, statwise-sucky cards, they are screwed up beyond all repair for normal battles. In every CCG, there are always a batch of cards that belongs to this desolated corner. The only situation they will be used is as substitutes of their big bros if the player has no access to that particular big bro. That is, if graboids are banned in an unupped environment, haematite golems may see some use. This kind of restriction can be enforced by restricted pvp tourneys (which IMO should not exist in the forums only; a free-for-all tourney with special rules could be incorporated into the main game), or subtly by random pools (draft battles anyone?). If those kind of play are available within the game, even rubbish vanillas will have a niche in restricted play. EVERY NEW CARD will see some use even if they're out of normal play, if that is so.

(Yes, I'm adopting a milder stance to card making. New cards have their uses, but restricted play is the only way you can MAKE SURE that they add value to the game. Think of phase salvager As of today, adding new cards to the game is merely a gamble for an increment in meta diversity)

Well another 2 . Together you have 4 from me