Void Pillar | Void Tower

[ZephyrPhantom]

To QuantumT's point, Mono decks are already at or near the end of the road.  With the advent of pendulums, duos became much more useful and in most cases worthwhile.  They also made rainbows more effective.  With the exception of Life, mono decks do not appear to be advantageous now.

While this is true, the metagame does change with the introduction of new cards. Currently monos are not very effective because there are many combinations that can be found within duos and some elements still haven't gotten beyond their base 13 cards.  As more cards get introduced into the game monos will eventually find their way back up the ladder. IMHO I don't think the metagame state should affect the quality of the individual card though.

[OldTrees]

IMHO I don't think the metagame state should affect the quality of the individual card though.

The variety added to the metagame is the worth of a card.

[QuantumT]

It stands to reason that only a pure or mostly pure Void Pillar deck as a viable and frequent deck would be able to punish monos to the degree of eliminating them from the metagame.

This isn't really true. In order for my void pillars to completely lockdown your mono's quanta, I only need to have 1 more void pillar than you have pillars. So if I run just a couple more void pillars (15-16) in my deck than a typical mono runs pillars (12-13), I'll have a reliable lockdown on your deck. Even in the cases where you have a heavy pillar draw and aren't actually locked down, your play will still be heavily stifled by my void pillars.

What I am trying to say is that this card doesn't seem to be OP and if it would cause such a huge metagame effect change it would probably need to be superior to Pest IMHO.

Pests are vulnerable to CC as opposed to PC, but that's not the most important difference. Void pillars can reliably establish a lockdown on the first turn.

IMHO I don't think the metagame state should affect the quality of the individual card though.

The variety added to the metagame is the worth of a card.

I agree, and this card takes away much more from the meta game than it adds.

[OldTrees]

It stands to reason that only a pure or mostly pure Void Pillar deck as a viable and frequent deck would be able to punish monos to the degree of eliminating them from the metagame.

This isn't really true. In order for my void pillars to completely lockdown your mono's quanta, I only need to have 1 more void pillar than you have pillars. So if I run just a couple more void pillars (15-16) in my deck than a typical mono runs pillars (12-13), I'll have a reliable lockdown on your deck. Even in the cases where you have a heavy pillar draw and aren't actually locked down, your play will still be heavily stifled by my void pillars.

I was talking about Void Pillar/other pillar ratio.
[13-16]/([13-16]+[4-8]) is what I would define as a mostly pure void pillar deck

I would like if we could verify your claims about the effectiveness of void pillars in altering the metagame.
Would you please preform the playtest above to verify if void pillar can be nerfed enough or whether it should be abandoned until the metagame changes enough?

[QuantumT]

It stands to reason that only a pure or mostly pure Void Pillar deck as a viable and frequent deck would be able to punish monos to the degree of eliminating them from the metagame.

This isn't really true. In order for my void pillars to completely lockdown your mono's quanta, I only need to have 1 more void pillar than you have pillars. So if I run just a couple more void pillars (15-16) in my deck than a typical mono runs pillars (12-13), I'll have a reliable lockdown on your deck. Even in the cases where you have a heavy pillar draw and aren't actually locked down, your play will still be heavily stifled by my void pillars.

I was talking about Void Pillar/other pillar ratio.
[13-16]/([13-16]+[4-8]) is what I would define as a mostly pure void pillar deck

I would like if we could verify your claims about the effectiveness of void pillars in altering the metagame.
Would you please preform the playtest above to verify if void pillar can be nerfed enough or whether it should be abandoned until the metagame changes enough?

I'm not sure what test you want to be performed. It's pretty easy to see that if I have more Void Pillars in my deck than you have pillars in yours, you're not going to be doing much.

[OldTrees]

It stands to reason that only a pure or mostly pure Void Pillar deck as a viable and frequent deck would be able to punish monos to the degree of eliminating them from the metagame.

This isn't really true. In order for my void pillars to completely lockdown your mono's quanta, I only need to have 1 more void pillar than you have pillars. So if I run just a couple more void pillars (15-16) in my deck than a typical mono runs pillars (12-13), I'll have a reliable lockdown on your deck. Even in the cases where you have a heavy pillar draw and aren't actually locked down, your play will still be heavily stifled by my void pillars.

I was talking about Void Pillar/other pillar ratio.
[13-16]/([13-16]+[4-8]) is what I would define as a mostly pure void pillar deck

I would like if we could verify your claims about the effectiveness of void pillars in altering the metagame.
Would you please preform the playtest above to verify if void pillar can be nerfed enough or whether it should be abandoned until the metagame changes enough?

I'm not sure what test you want to be performed. It's pretty easy to see that if I have more Void Pillars in my deck than you have pillars in yours, you're not going to be doing much.

The first part of the test is to design a deck using Void pillars (start with 15) and adjust it until it has 50% win/loss ratio against pvp competitive non mono decks. This part is to find what the deck would look like after eliminating monos from the metagame.
The second part of the deck is to demonstrate then end product of the first part (with likely less than 15 void pillars) can still destroy mono decks with a significant win/loss ratio (say 70+%)

Try this test with the 0 cost version, 1 stock quanta version (cost . Generate ) and the 1 actual quanta versions of void pillar.

[QuantumT]

To be honest running that test sounds exhausting, there are simply too many different decks to test it against. I just don't care enough to put that kind of testing into a card that probably won't ever be put into the game anyway.

[OldTrees]

To be honest running that test sounds exhausting, there are simply too many different decks to test it against. I just don't care enough to put that kind of testing into a card that probably won't ever be put into the game anyway.

I was thinking just 2-3 example decks. Your experience would allow you to select decks that would be the best indicators. However I understand your reluctance to spend the time for so little benefit.

[Opsinis]

I just looked at the entire series, and it is soooo strange. If this were ever to become a real element in the game, it (the game) would be changed completely.

[Avenger]

The whole concept is OP. In normal setup, you always produce more quanta than you use. So, with same balancing, void always destructs more than it gives.
Furthermore, void can always play a card, while the opponent cannot. And with this pillar, will not play, ever.

[OldTrees]

The whole concept is OP. In normal setup, you always produce more quanta than you use. So, with same balancing, void always destructs more than it gives.
Furthermore, void can always play a card, while the opponent cannot. And with this pillar, will not play, ever.

So by this logic
Pillar based decks produce M quanta and use N quanta [M>N]
Void is the opposite: giving N quanta and draining M quanta
So Void vs normal
They (the normal deck) produce M, are given N and have M drained. [M+N-M=N] Allowing them to play their cards as normal.
Your premises do not entail your conclusion rather it entails that the quanta drain will have no effect on the cards the opponent plays.

[QuantumT]

I think what he's trying to say is that in the void set, the fact that your own cards give your opponent quanta doesn't really compensate for the draining effect of these towers, and he's right.

Since you are in control of when your opponent will receive the quanta, of course you won't give it to them unless you're prepared to deal with whatever they play (that's assuming your void pillars don't just drain all of it at the end of the turn).