Summer | Summer

[johannhowitzer]

I've been rolling the balance issue RealGod brought up around in my head since he said it, and I think I've analyzed it well enough for now.  is a reasonable cost, I think.

There are two types of decks I see running Summer for its Fire Bolts.  The first is a - heavy deck for pumping the spells, with maybe Light mark or Rays of Light.  In that case, 3 from each RoL isn't an unreasonable amount, especially considering it would be run in a stall-type deck; running from just mark, that's still a new Fire Bolt every three turns.

The other deck type is a - heavy deck that runs with Crusaders and a Fire mark or perhaps Immolation to burst the quanta necessary to play one Summer card.  In this case, you'd have a creature that costs 5 to play, 2-3 to Endow, then 3 repeatable for a Fire Bolt card, which is between the cost of Red Nymph and Owl's Eye.

It's possible that an ability cost of would be more balanced, but it looks fine for now.  The creature sacrifice is of far greater concern to the player.

[Newbiecake]

Sorry, but we probably don't need another card for Fire/Light stalls with creatures. Great concept though. It's just the existence of Fire stalls that annoys me.

[johannhowitzer]

Sorry, but we probably don't need another card for Fire/Light stalls with creatures. Great concept though. It's just the existence of Fire stalls that annoys me.

Can't say I've ever seen a Fire Stall that used Light splash of any kind.  I guess you could throw in Sanctuaries (which IMO need to be rebalanced a bit) and maybe a Reflective Shield to prevent Lance decks (Fire Buckler is more useful overall), but there really aren't any Light cards that fit the Fire Stall concept.  There are rushes, of course, like the classic Rangel, but rushes aren't stalls.

Your personal annoyance with a specific deck type doesn't reflect on the balance of this card or its appropriateness for the game, sorry.  I believe this card would be a good addition to the game, though we haven't seen it in action so this is still all just informed conjecture.

[Avenger]

Haven't you? Then where they get their sanctuaries.

here are a few used in UW:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23841.0.html
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23684.0.html
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23725.0.html

[johannhowitzer]

Yes, I mentioned Sanctuary.  And I said it needs to be rebalanced - it's becoming the new Shard of Gratitude, especially for events that prohibit use of Shards.  Did you notice all three Sanctuary-boosted Fire stalls went undefeated?

[ddevans96]

Did you notice all three Sanctuary-boosted Fire stalls went undefeated?

Ironically, even the one that lost.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23779.msg324431#msg324431

Sanctuary firestall is only doing well because people don't know how to counter it yet. I guarantee that will be different in later rounds.

[ShiningSword]

I am worried about this card in sanc fire stalls. I mean, it would allow a deck to start spiting out firebolts like crasy(consider firebolts are the most powerful CC when used in a fire stall, because of how fast can it can get dangerous levels of fire quanta).
Add pheonixes to have infinite sacrifices, and a mirror shield so taking out the fahrenheits doesnt make you vulnerable, and you have a deck that will have an infinite supply of firebolts(and enough fire quanta to make them deadly).
The opponent will have to pack CC for pheonixes(make it good CC for pheonixes, because some CC wont work well) or PC for summer, or otherwise he will be crushed by a hailstorm of bolts.

[johannhowitzer]

Phoenix (not "pheonix") is one card I didn't take into account.  That might be cause for concern... perhaps I'll revisit the sacrifice end of this card.

As for sanc fire stalls... if the opponent can counter them, he can also counter Summer.

[johannhowitzer]

Considering several alternate abilities for this, as I couldn't figure out a way to balance what it currently does, in light of Phoenix.  None of the following would require a creature sacrifice.

1. Intensity: all spells deal 1 extra damage.  Works well with Fire, although in Lance decks Fahrenheit would still be more practical, as it deals more damage in the long run.  Damage for Fire Bolt, Ice Bolt, and Drain Life would be +1 on the first bolt only, to prevent abuse by Lance decks.  Only problem is that it doesn't make much sense for a fiery blade to boost an icy spell.  DOES boost Unstable Gas, both against a player and creatures; this would boost Air/Fire combos.

2. Torch: all friendly creatures gain +2|0 for one turn, but take 1 damage.  A one-shot temporary Field Acceleration.  Fire creatures already have low HP (except grown Golems), so there's some inherent balance... the damage would be permanent, but the increase would be to the current attack stat, not maximum - it will reset at the end of the turn like Dive or Sky Blitz.  Because the damage is dealt immediately, a creature with less than 2 HP remaining, like a Phoenix, would just be killed.  This may even work with a Fire ability cost, instead of duo.  Stackable with flown or endowed Summers.

3. Ignite: may destroy inflammable shields instead of dealing damage.  Similar to Winter, but with a permanent effect with a lower chance to strike.  Yes, it is renewable PC for Fire... but it's limited to the opponent's shield slot only.  Certain shields are immune; if the shield is immune or there's no shield, Summer will always just deal damage.  Here's a list of shields that would have, say, a 10-20% chance to be destroyed:

  - Solar Shield
  - Dusk Shield
  - Thorn Carapace
  - Skull Shield (Bone Wall loses one point no matter how you slice it anyway)
  - Ice Shield
  - Fog Shield (Summer is not ranged, so not Wings)
  - Gravity Shield (little point though, as Fire creatures usually ignore it)
  - Procrastination

Because of the fact that this list is rather short and contains no immaterial shields, the raw damage of Summer would be increased to probably 7|8.  Protect Artifact is ignored for shields on this list.

I like all three of these ideas - I am reserving the ones I don't use, to make other cards out of them!  Don't go idea-theftin' me, now.

[OldTrees]

I like all three of these ideas - I am reserving the ones I don't use, to make other cards out of them!  Don't go idea-theftin' me, now.

Someone beat you to Intensity. (some Fire non weapon permanent within the last 2 weeks)
Torch looks like a good idea.

[johannhowitzer]

OK, here's the million-dollar question... how do I explain Torch in the space available on a weapon card?

[ZephyrPhantom]

OK, here's the million-dollar question... how do I explain Torch in the space available on a weapon card?

Make the ability say:
"Torch :  All friendly creatures gain +2| -1 for 1 turn."
This works considering Rage Potion and Overdrive only damage the target creature instead of actually lowering Max HP.