Seraph | Seraph

[mesaprotector]

I like the card, if anything it adds more variety in creature choice. The hard part is it surviving that 1 turn, but then you should have no problem with it. Sanctuary_Firestal_this ftw

Variety in creature choice? This is, at best, a more expensive Phoenix (at worse, a less expensive Dragon).
Also, I'd never replace a Fire Tower, a Sanctuary, a Miracle, a Reflective Shield, a Fire Lance, a Rage Elixer, a Fire Storm, a Fire Shield, or a Deflagration for a Seraph. Seraph is just too fragile the turn it's out to reliably aid in a win-condition, while the cards currently in Firestall are far more reliable.
Last but not least, it's hard to truly synergize with a card that only affects itself, and I'd rather have a card that creates new combos take the role of "a new [Fire] card."

How about, Seraph's skill is targeted? That isn't a huge buff, and it would make it a more interesting card. Although I kinda like it as is - I've always liked semi-vanilla cards.

[OldTrees]

How about, Seraph's skill is targeted? That isn't a huge buff, and it would make it a more interesting card. Although I kinda like it as is - I've always liked semi-vanilla cards.

That would be a significant buff and would make it more of a Light card than a Fire card. I think a Light version with it as a target skill would be the ideal design.

[moomoose]

i get the drift that zanz just wanted to add a card to fire for the sake of adding a card to fire.  making it less so about giving fire a tool to replace its current core of stall cards, more about giving it something for people to consider playing with for the fun of it.  with actual holes to fill in other elements, it is sort of unfortunate that this is the way things are going, but at least he isnt producing a new core card for one of the elements which is typically already considered "complete" relative to the others.

[BluePriest]

i get the drift that zanz just wanted to add a card to fire for the sake of adding a card to fire.  making it less so about giving fire a tool to replace its current core of stall cards, more about giving it something for people to consider playing with for the fun of it.  with actual holes to fill in other elements, it is sort of unfortunate that this is the way things are going, but at least he isnt producing a new core card for one of the elements which is typically already considered "complete" relative to the others.

this.

However, id like to compare this card to phoenix.
Note, this comparison is only for after the first turn. This card is fragile on its first turn out, and so there is no point in me using it in the comparison since its an obvious downside.
Easy kills for Seraph
Damaging Shields

Easy Kills for Phoenix
Double Oty
Lobo
Damaging shield plus bolt card.

They have thier own strengths and weaknesses.

I don't want every card to effect the meta or be unique. I want variety a lot more than that. Games like Yu0Gi-Oh are completely broken, however, you can build a deck that fits your own style in them. This is the core thing elements is missing, and so this card is a good addition imo.

[Pineapple]

i get the drift that zanz just wanted to add a card to fire for the sake of adding a card to fire.  making it less so about giving fire a tool to replace its current core of stall cards, more about giving it something for people to consider playing with for the fun of it.  with actual holes to fill in other elements, it is sort of unfortunate that this is the way things are going, but at least he isnt producing a new core card for one of the elements which is typically already considered "complete" relative to the others.

this.

However, id like to compare this card to phoenix.
Note, this comparison is only for after the first turn. This card is fragile on its first turn out, and so there is no point in me using it in the comparison since its an obvious downside.
Easy kills for Seraph
Damaging Shields

Easy Kills for Phoenix
Double Oty
Lobo
Damaging shield plus bolt card.

They have thier own strengths and weaknesses.

I don't want every card to effect the meta or be unique. I want variety a lot more than that. Games like Yu0Gi-Oh are completely broken, however, you can build a deck that fits your own style in them. This is the core thing elements is missing, and so this card is a good addition imo.

Yeah, you just proved that, after the first turn, Seraph is basically the older Phoenix with a sightly higher cost but slightly more attack and whose resilience has an upkeep. It's basically the comparison of Phoenix to Cremation-powered Immortal all over again.

[BluePriest]

Yeah, you just proved that, after the first turn, Seraph is basically the older Phoenix with a sightly higher cost but slightly more attack and whose resilience has an upkeep. It's basically the comparison of Phoenix to Cremation-powered Immortal all over again.

You dont like the card, we get it, stop complaining. The main point to my post was

I don't want every card to effect the meta or be unique. I want variety a lot more than that. Games like Yu0Gi-Oh are completely broken, however, you can build a deck that fits your own style in them. This is the core thing elements is missing, and so this card is a good addition imo.

you are arguing its bad for a completely different reason than why im arguing its good.

[SnoWeb]

1) This card does not add anything new to Fire except another card. CC Resistence? Go Phoenix for the 3to1 trades. High attack to card ratio? Go Dragon. Both? Go Lava Golem.

2) The brief immateriality does fit the Light element. Thematically it is divine protection. Elementally it is included in the "ignoring the opponent" theme Light has.

3) This ability (brief immateriality) is suboptimally implemented. It would have a much greater beneficial impact on the metagame if it were a mono card that bestowed the protection on a target creature. (cheaper temporary Anubis/Aether Nymph)

Conclusion: It is Fire's turn to get a card but this was not a good selection.

I agree so much. Fire is an element in which you don't need to use your brain. It would have greatly increased the interest of the element if the brand new card introduced a new/fun/tricky mechanic/nterraction. I think of nightmare/mindgate/sanctuary kind of alteration of the metagame. Instead we have a new good, but boring card for fire ...

On the other hand, the art is great.

Edit: a suggestion
: Divine Burn - Seraph does not deal damage this turn but reduce the maxHP instead.

[moomoose]

that ability suggestion would better fit than light, imo

i agree with OT, aside from point number 2, but its not worth rehashing my points.

it is what it is, ill be surprised if it undergoes any major changes.  to date, the only card i can recall being radically redesigned while in the trainer was dune scorpion, and that was more about having too drastic an effect and not about not being an interesting addition to its element.

[~Napalm]

So this is pretty much the reverse of the current version by popular request. Note, I decreased the attack by one on each version because Light does not get the same inherent bonus that Fire does. I reworded it to make a smidgeon more sense for a Fire ability, though it would work exactly the same. I thought it might be beneficial to visualize the card itself.

If you read Cryo's art post, he explains the theme behind Seraph pretty well:
"Seraphim are the highest ranked angels, beings of pure light burning with undying flame."
My interpretation of this is that they are not meant to aid others, as has been suggested, rather to wreak havoc while protecting themselves from harm, as the card itself actually does. Does the card fit better in Light or Fire? Well... that's the question. Personally, I think it fits really well exactly where it is. The ability itself is clearly more of a Light ability and the fiery nature (Seraph translates to "burning ones") is found in the element of the card itself.

Does Fire need a new card? For the sake of variety yes. Do other elements need new cards? For the sake of variety, if not power, yes. Does Fire need THIS card? Not particularly. It doesn't do anything that a Phoenix or Dragon couldn't do in some measure. It doesn't bring anything "new" to Fire or the game as a whole. For this reason, it might be EXACTLY what Fire needs, though I'd like to see a permanent at some point.

[moomoose]

id argue what fire 'needs' is nothing at the moment, this is more of a 'luxury', just semantics though.  new cards just for the sake of having a new card seems like a waste of development/coding time. 

suppose for a moment your favorite element 'x' is perfectly fine, has everything it needs at this moment, but later it will fall behind other elements in terms of power through omission.  im sure everyone would have preferred waiting for a useful card to be designed for their own favorite element when there was a need, not a card that just treaded water when there wasnt a need.  not saying the two situations are mutually exclusive and that two cards cant be produced, but new cards don't come around very often, it may make more sense to have them count for something when they are made. especially when there are other elements with a legit claim for new cards to actually improve them.

i understand you love fire and that you are happy that you are getting a new card for your element, i just dont know that it makes sense for it to be now and this card.  and im probably spending too much time thinking about this, so ill move on.

[mesaprotector]

@Napalm: I really like the idea of a light card with a fire ability. It also gives Light a decent rushing card (it previously had none unupped).

That being said, I'm fine with either version of this card.

[moomoose]

is 9 atk for 9 quanta or 11 atk for 9 quanta really considered a rusher?