World of Elements - General Feedback

[Scaredgirl]

World of Elements - General Feedback

Please post general feedback about the event. Thanks.

[the dictator]

Well, I had saved the rules page off line so I could read it in my new home even without internet connection, but while doing so I found quite a few confusing things/errors/contradictions, so I decided to make a list and put them here.

Place	Current text	Change, question, problem, note, whatever.
2.4	A non-editable version of your character sheet will be embedded on the forums by WoE organizers.	Might need to be changed.
3.3 Reputation	The higher your ... your business elsewhere.	Are there any specific numbers yet?
3.5	All skill trees are ... and trading illegal goods.	Some skills could be swapped to split those two paths even more, for example, Stealth would be a logical skill to follow Disguise, while these two are right now in different skill trees.
3.6 Quest	How do the players know what quests are available, and what are the requirements.	Will there be any overview of all the quests?
4.4 Starter deck		I can't speak for other elements, but my card list currently shows only 58 cards, including 1 mindflayer. Are these cards just filler cards, or did the starter decks change?
5		Map image needs to be replaced (link too).
5.1 Terrains		Will there be any use for the other terrains listed here, and shown on the other (broken) map in the map topic. Also, you might want to list some of the differences and specials of these terrains (for example, are the impassable mountains really impassable, can the rivers only be crossed at the bridges, can the lake be crossed by fire elementals).
5.2	26 Towns are said to be on the map.	Will these be placed again (like in alpha) or do the teams get to build these themselves (and if so, a build action might need to be added).
5.3	”you need to have a tier 1 skill that enables you to do so. ”	Not all movement skills are tier 1.
7.1 Action points	Each player gets 2 actions per round In the sheet itself: Each player gets 4 actions per round
		You also might want to list that left over points do not carry over to the next round(s).
		And, what actions CAN be used more than once in a round? (specifically wondering about crafting skills, some fast travel skills, train, capture, take quest, complete quest, quest, but also some other 2 hp's skill actions) It might be a good idea to state no/all skills can be used multiple times (if you have enough action points), unless stated otherwise, and put it in the describtion after those skills.
Action sheet	Trade With	Buy or sell any number of items with another player Might need a better wording, because I can see this turning into switching cards most of the time
	Join Arena:	which arena, what arena ???confused???
	Use Stone of Return	you -> youR.
	Work	what will be the relation between the hexes and the 'salary'
8.1 Stances	”unless you have a skill that changes your default stance ”	but what if you have two of those skills (or are under the effect of two of those skills).
		Protect: What if the protector and the protected person are both attacked?
8.3	”If you have a skill that somehow affects the deckbuilding of your opponent ”	Does that also account for any gameplay skills? (like Lich or Ambush). Also 12 hours might be a lot depending on the time of a round. 12 hours might lead to problems in completing a game: Bill sends a message at 0:00pm to find a suitable time Frank responds, and they find out the only suitable time is between 7:30pm and 9:00pm (the same day). In that case, Frank could claim his deckbuilding isn't restricted, which might then result in Bill not wanting to play. Problem is, a rule on a fair basis won't work either, but time limits create other problems. Best way would be to give Frank up/to 12 hours for deckbuilding around Bill's skills, but if he agrees on an earlier time, he has to stick to the restictions of Bill's skills. (might happen anyways, but could be a good idea to add it to the rules).
8.8	“If you stay in Spirit World for 3 rounds ”	A good rule, but when does the counter start? The moment you get into the spirit world/the moment you come out of the spirit world? (Looking at the Icy Tomb skill).
8.9		Can players enter a city or town while it is under siege? (to help defending it when the wall is down, specifically looking at Energy Barrier).
		And if you are in a city, can you get out (to flee somewhere else, or to try to lift the siege).
		When fighting the NPC garrison, is there any salvaging (by you and the garrison), and how many cards does the garrison discard on a loss?
		"can use for build decks as " as in, the decks must be prebuild?
9. Trading	Whole section	Improved trading skill is changed, needs to be changed here
10		Does a (simple) fight between people still change suspicious into war? Also, it might be a good idea to lower the turn requirement for Peace and Alliance (to 6 or 12 rounds or even less) or it will be really hard to get into peace with someone. (The attack function still targets a random person). Also, do you fight a person you are at peace with when one of you had the attack action (maybe to fight someone else).

Skill trees, as taken form the All skills list (with the extra information/clarification taken into account).
General:
		On the mark, will the mark skill be worth 2 or 3 upgrades of that element?
		And why do some skills have a name for the skill and the effect, while most have only a name for the skill, and what do you call when you want to activate a skill with a double name?
Energy Shaper		does that also apply to passive skills? if so, what about marks?
Champion of Aether		what next world? the spirit world? like you could do dimensional travel to spirit world, dimensional travel to capital city? And when defeated 'walk' the same turn out again?
Mobility		what environmental effects?
Sniper		Wording needs to be changed to: Name a PLAYER AND a creature card. Target player in the same hex is forced to discard (ONE COPY OF) that card.
Dust Cloud		Siege damage coming from that location, or being aimed at that location. And, rounded up or down? Is the rounding done for each action (making 1,1,1,1 (four players dealing one damage each) to 1,1,1,1 or 0,0,0,0) or for the total ( 1,1,1,1 = 4 total damage -> 2 damage)?
Rising Storm		Needs a clarification, like what happens when I fight another element, then go back to the previous one? Does it matter if you win or lose?
Bloodthirsty		Does the effect stack with itself? What if you lose a battle just after you have won one? (is it possible to take the bonus in and out the spirit world?)
Pickpocketing		Do you get a random item, or one of your chosing, or the cheapest, most expensive, shiniest, oldest whatever item?
Champion of Darkness		one third feels really overpowered, especially later in the game when people will get lots of cards.  Also, does the third only determine the total number, or also the specific creatures? I have 6 toads and 6 crawlers, do I have to give 2 toads and 2 crawlers, or can I chose to give 3 toads and 1 crawler, or any other combination) When you are free to chose which cards you give it might help to balance the skill a bit, because the darkness player will be mostly interested in their sell value, meaning you could dumb the cheapest (and least interesting to you, like salvaged) cards. That way he doesn't gain 2 (or even more) rare creatures every win (later in the game), and you have a better chance in following battles (while you are trying to reach a shop to get some of your cards back
On the order, Stealth feels like it should follow after Disguise.
Curse of the Undead		6 round after resurrection, or do they directly start? (possibly resulting into only 1 turn actually in effect: Icy tomb + 3 turns for no usefull spawn point (sieges, etc.)). And how does it stack with itself (as in, I get beaten, resurrect and get beaten again when there is still 2 turns until the first effect wears of, do I have to use a death mark for 2 turns or 6 turns after that? and do those 2 turns count onward while I'm in spirit
Blood of the Undead		what environmental effects, by terrain/skills/??? ? Also, does this include your own skills (including this one)? <= nice paradox
Thematically, Harvest a Soul and Blood of the Undead might be better placed when swapped, can't really decide on that.
Tunnel Rat		er round, meaning, you can only use this action once per round?
Champion of Earth		When does this come into effect (as in, do you trap the people that are in your hex right now, or the people that are entering that hex). What if you are attacked when you use this action (question holds for other actions as well)? What happens if you use this when inside a besieged city (especially, the turn the attackers try to enter).
Diversion		Is the upgraded version banned too? If so, what does it do to skills like Tremors or Stellar Radiation?
Hallucination		Is this skill passive, or activated?
Phoenix Rider	For every 6 hexes you move using 'Phoenix Rider', discard one card.	Might need to be changed to, for every 'TURN' or '6 hexes (rounded up)' using 'phoenix rider' discard one card. Else 11 hexes would result in only 1 discard
Bombardment		1 NPC garrison = 30 cards? And is that THE siege action, or any siege action (so in- or excluding the ones from gravity and water skills).
Destroy		What improvements? I can only find the tunnel entrances (now the build a mill,etc. skills are removed).
Berserker		Aura of Rage will be easy to avoid, making it quite weak, because of it's cost: with a cost of 3 you can't move and use it, so you will have to use it on the hex you are standing on (except for Clockmaker). With a cost of ►► or ►►☼ you would be able to move one hex and cast the skill, for a better suprise effect, more fun, and more power for the skill itself.
Hellfire		same argument as used above holds here too.
		There is talk of a fortress in this skill tree, that isn't mentioned anywhere else. Do the normal siege and the steam pirate skill also work on fortresses (whatever they are and whatever they do).
Architect		what is the difference between improvements and structures, and what improvements and structures anyways.
		On a sidenote, if this is about building your own Towns and fortresses (and maybe even wonder) wouldn't it be a good idea to require two people for building a town (so someone can't just randomly build towns, that is, if there is a limit on the number of towns a team can build). And would it be a good way to allow multiple people to build a big improvement together (splitting the required number of action points)?
Champion of Gravity		makes for an awkward (in my opinion) synergy with Low Point of Gravity.
Nature Rituals		Do you have to stand on/close to that hex? The wording (and the example) imply you can use it anywhere on the map (as long if there is at least one forest hex on the map).
Animal Form		Cannot be used on a non-forest hex is subject to confusion, like: can I activate it on a non forest hex to move through two forest hexes, can I activate in a forest to move over the edge of the forest, or do all three hexes have to be forest hexes?
Scouting		do you have to use the skill in a hex to be immune to lotus traps in that hex, or are you immune anyway?
Shaman		Rewarding with both an extra forest hex for all previous skill AND +4xp looks double and too much for me.
Cure		Can this be used to clear the deck and battle restrictions on a player when he is locked in battle? For example: Bill meets Frank, and they get locked in battle, and Frank has a few skill that restrict Bill's decks (or battle). Can I use Cure to remove those effects and give Bill his free deckbuilding back (if I happen to be in the same hex as Bill the round(s) they are locked in battle?
Protector		'Protect' no longer costs two Action Points OR 'Protect' costs now one Action Point.
Lightbringer		I read this as: 'Inspire: All allies in the same hex are allowed to use up to 3 additional upgraded cards during a battle.' If am right this wording is much clearer. And a question, does this effect ever wear off?? (for example, after one round or, more fun, after the lightbringer moves again). Also, does this work for the lightbringer himself?
Research		Lasts 6 turns meaning you have to wait 6 turns before you can use research again to get another skill, or can you use it earlier again to change
Pirate's Grog		How will the downgrading be done considering the 'no deckschange'-rule? You simply have to chose 6 creatures you use upgraged in the previous round, and downgrade them.
Arctic Mage		How is this combined with skills resulting in 'your opponent can use X less upgraded cards'? Most reasonable would be: Number of cards opponent can use = Minimum(Basic number of cards opponent can use + bonusses due to skills - punishments due to skills, 12), because it states you opponent can use a MAXIMUM of 12 cards.
Critical Strike		I didn't notice until I got here, but in here duel should be replaced with battle (because battle is generally used for a set of (up to) 3 duels (compare One with Nature and Predator). Might be more of these discrepancies (in all mark of ... skills duels could/should be replaced by battles, also for Improved Salvaging).
Revenge		Does this skill require you to keep a complete list of all opponents you have lost against? Or only the last one? Also, does the 'counter' get reset to 0 when you actually manage to win (I guess so, but it is not stated anywhere).
Bargaining		I haven't seen that 'special price' mentioned anywhere.
Improved Salvaging		an ADDITIONAL???
Swindling		Name a Common or Uncommon card AND A PLAYER. Target player in the same hex is forced to trade that card for one of your cards.
		And what are these assasinate and illegal goods quests? Will (an example/preview) of these be shown in the global overview, so you can decide these are worth it, or not

Fast Travel:
Dimensional Walk		Good skill, only restricted in a strait line. T2 skill makes up for that.
Assault Team		Nice skill, good for a major assault, but might be hard to coördinate (depending on the number of players per team).
Cloud Rider		Good, makes up for 's pretty restrictive skill, allows you to save some skill points (which is always usefull) though it might make Assault team pretty useless later on.
Shadow Leap		Another good skill which usefullness depends on the number op players. T2 feels like the right tier.
Death March		Can you use other movement actions this round (with Cloud Rider or Clockmaker). Good for a sprint to a target or for escaping an Aggressive Charge. For long distances not much faster than normal movement. T1 is right.
Chaos Jump		Funny skill that fits the team, T1 is the right tier, but  ►►►☼ might be a bit too expensive, considering there is a good change simply walking there would be faster.
Phoenix Rider		One of the fastest skills, but restricted to a few routes and not the whole map.  Also you need to pay with a few cards of your choice (hmm, why not a 'simple' relic, like lots of other skills).
Iron Bird		Can be the fastest skill, depending on the placing of the Iron Birds. (btw, can you place the Iron Bird inside a City/Town/Fortress/Whatever?). Nice skill, unique, restricted, but still customizable. T1 approved.
Animal Form		I like the idea, but I'm afraid this skill will get better and better over time, because there are two skill that can generate forest hexes (of which one passive) while that is only one that can delete (and that one is active). T1 approved because of the starting field, but if possible (and usefull) I field it could be T2 worthy by the end (if there is one) of WoE.
Horseback Riding		The fastest skill of all skills, at least, if you can use it twice a round. Its real usefullness will depend on the placing of the stallions, but taking the Alpha map as an example it can be great even when you can't use it twice a round to make a great sprint to the light capital (arriving a 1.5 turn earlier, assuming you want to spend 4 action points in the city you can win two whole turns). But because of this type of fast travel for light, light might be best placed in a corner.
Tunnel Rat, Camel Riding		Very slow, if they can be used only once each round, they can only be used to save action points, and for greater orders I can't see how you could spend those on your way. Earth's skill is customizable, while time's isn't, so I feel time should get a little + (or earth a little -). (edit: with the new map, camel rider allows you to take the camel almost anywere on the path, which would make up for the 'loss' of customizability.
Ship Navigator		Slow but still faster than usual, while saving action points. The biggest question is, how long will I travel when I start at the lake and travel 12 hexes (towards entropy capital)? 3 hexes a turn, thus 4 turns. Or 3 hexes for 3 action points, thus 12 action points total (like other big orders), which would be (only) 3 rounds. And if the first one, can I spend the saved action point(s) from the previous rounds/last round?

Well, that it is for now, as it is 04:27 already (yes that is am, and I haven't slept yet). I tried to look at all the descriptions as dumb as possible (and not having had any sleep helps), I hope this comment can help SG to make the rules even clearer.


And it is almost two o'clock again and I'm still editing this.

[Jappert]

I can't speak for other elements, but my card list currently shows only 58 cards, including 1 mindflayer.

Are these cards just filler cards, or did the starter decks change?

First of all, starter decks changed. Second, you have 1 short sword and 1 shield! 58+2 = 60. (you have more then just one mindflayer btw...)

I'll edit this post if I have more to answer from your wall of text.

[the dictator]

I can't speak for other elements, but my card list currently shows only 58 cards, including 1 mindflayer.

Are these cards just filler cards, or did the starter decks change?

First of all, starter decks changed. Second, you have 1 short sword and 1 shield! 58+2 = 60. (you have more then just one mindflayer btw...)

I'll edit this post if I have more to answer from your wall of text.

Yes, I found that out, but I posted this in feedback for a reason (opposite to questions and answers), this huge tables aren't meant as a lot of question, but they are meant as an overview of things in the rules that aren't clear, thus are meant as feedback on the way the rules are stated right now. So I meant no only, did the starter decks change, AND if so, why aren't they changed on the general rules page.

As Higs pointed out in chat, most of these questions can be answered by reading through lots of information (for example, the Q&A page), but that is exactly the problem, when someone wants to join, he is going to read the rules, thinks way to much information, still don't get it, and quits again. What I'm trying to archive with my previous post is to point out that the rules are in real need for an update, and are very unclear at some specific points.

[Scaredgirl]

Well, I had saved the rules page off line so I could read it in my new home even without internet connection, but while doing so I found quite a few confusing things/errors/contradictions, so I decided to make a list and put them here.

Place	Current text	Change, question, problem, note, whatever.
2.4	A non-editable version of your character sheet will be embedded on the forums by WoE organizers.	Might need to be changed.
3.3 Reputation	The higher your ... your business elsewhere.	Are there any specific numbers yet?
3.5	All skill trees are ... and trading illegal goods.	Some skills could be swapped to split those two paths even more, for example, Stealth would be a logical skill to follow Disguise, while these two are right now in different skill trees.
3.6 Quest	How do the players know what quests are available, and what are the requirements.	Will there be any overview of all the quests?
4.4 Starter deck		I can't speak for other elements, but my card list currently shows only 58 cards, including 1 mindflayer. Are these cards just filler cards, or did the starter decks change?
5		Map image needs to be replaced (link too).
5.1 Terrains		Will there be any use for the other terrains listed here, and shown on the other (broken) map in the map topic. Also, you might want to list some of the differences and specials of these terrains (for example, are the impassable mountains really impassable, can the rivers only be crossed at the bridges, can the lake be crossed by fire elementals).
5.2	26 Towns are said to be on the map.	Will these be placed again (like in alpha) or do the teams get to build these themselves (and if so, a build action might need to be added).
5.3	”you need to have a tier 1 skill that enables you to do so. ”	Not all movement skills are tier 1.
7.1 Action points	Each player gets 2 actions per round In the sheet itself: Each player gets 4 actions per round
		You also might want to list that left over points do not carry over to the next round(s).
		And, what actions CAN be used more than once in a round? (specifically wondering about crafting skills, some fast travel skills, train, capture, take quest, complete quest, quest, but also some other 2 hp's skill actions) It might be a good idea to state no/all skills can be used multiple times (if you have enough action points), unless stated otherwise, and put it in the describtion after those skills.
Action sheet	Trade With	Buy or sell any number of items with another player Might need a better wording, because I can see this turning into switching cards most of the time
	Join Arena:	which arena, what arena ???confused???
	Use Stone of Return	you -> youR.
	Work	what will be the relation between the hexes and the 'salary'
8.1 Stances	”unless you have a skill that changes your default stance ”	but what if you have two of those skills (or are under the effect of two of those skills).
		Protect: What if the protector and the protected person are both attacked?
8.3	”If you have a skill that somehow affects the deckbuilding of your opponent ”	Does that also account for any gameplay skills? (like Lich or Ambush). Also 12 hours might be a lot depending on the time of a round. 12 hours might lead to problems in completing a game: Bill sends a message at 0:00pm to find a suitable time Frank responds, and they find out the only suitable time is between 7:30pm and 9:00pm (the same day). In that case, Frank could claim his deckbuilding isn't restricted, which might then result in Bill not wanting to play. Problem is, a rule on a fair basis won't work either, but time limits create other problems. Best way would be to give Frank up/to 12 hours for deckbuilding around Bill's skills, but if he agrees on an earlier time, he has to stick to the restictions of Bill's skills. (might happen anyways, but could be a good idea to add it to the rules).
8.8	“If you stay in Spirit World for 3 rounds ”	A good rule, but when does the counter start? The moment you get into the spirit world/the moment you come out of the spirit world? (Looking at the Icy Tomb skill).
8.9		Can players enter a city or town while it is under siege? (to help defending it when the wall is down, specifically looking at Energy Barrier).
		And if you are in a city, can you get out (to flee somewhere else, or to try to lift the siege).
		When fighting the NPC garrison, is there any salvaging (by you and the garrison), and how many cards does the garrison discard on a loss?
		"can use for build decks as " as in, the decks must be prebuild?
9. Trading	Whole section	Improved trading skill is changed, needs to be changed here
10		Does a (simple) fight between people still change suspicious into war? Also, it might be a good idea to lower the turn requirement for Peace and Alliance (to 6 or 12 rounds or even less) or it will be really hard to get into peace with someone. (The attack function still targets a random person). Also, do you fight a person you are at peace with when one of you had the attack action (maybe to fight someone else).

Skill trees:
General:
		On the mark, will the mark skill be worth 2 or 3 upgrades of that element?
		And why do some skills have a name for the skill and the effect, while most have only a name for the skill, and what do you call when you want to activate a skill with a double name?
Energy Shaper		does that also apply to passive skills? if so, what about marks?
Champion of Aether		what next world? the spirit world? like you could do dimensional travel to spirit world, dimensional travel to capital city? And when defeated 'walk' the same turn out again?
Mobility		what environmental effects?
Sniper		Wording needs to be changed to: Name a PLAYER AND a creature card. Target player in the same hex is forced to discard (ONE COPY OF) that card.
Dust Cloud		Siege damage coming from that location, or being aimed at that location. And, rounded up or down? Is the rounding done for each action (making 1,1,1,1 (four players dealing one damage each) to 1,1,1,1 or 0,0,0,0) or for the total ( 1,1,1,1 = 4 total damage -> 2 damage)?
Rising Storm		Needs a clarification, like what happens when I fight another element, then go back to the previous one? Does it matter if you win or lose?
Bloodthirsty		Does the effect stack with itself? What if you lose a battle just after you have won one? (is it possible to take the bonus in and out the spirit world?)
Pickpocketing		Do you get a random item, or one of your chosing, or the cheapest, most expensive, shiniest, oldest whatever item?
Champion of Darkness		one third feels really overpowered, especially later in the game when people will get lots of cards.  Also, does the third only determine the total number, or also the specific creatures? I have 6 toads and 6 crawlers, do I have to give 2 toads and 2 crawlers, or can I chose to give 3 toads and 1 crawler, or any other combination) When you are free to chose which cards you give it might help to balance the skill a bit, because the darkness player will be mostly interested in their sell value, meaning you could dumb the cheapest (and least interesting to you, like salvaged) cards. That way he doesn't gain 2 (or even more) rare creatures every win (later in the game), and you have a better chance in following battles (while you are trying to reach a shop to get some of your cards back
On the order, Stealth feels like it should follow after Disguise.
Curse of the Undead		6 round after resurrection, or do they directly start? (possibly resulting into only 1 turn actually in effect: Icy tomb + 3 turns for no usefull spawn point (sieges, etc.)). And how does it stack with itself (as in, I get beaten, resurrect and get beaten again when there is still 2 turns until the first effect wears of, do I have to use a death mark for 2 turns or 6 turns after that? and do those 2 turns count onward while I'm in spirit
Blood of the Undead		what environmental effects, by terrain/skills/??? ? Also, does this include your own skills (including this one)? <= nice paradox
Thematically, Harvest a Soul and Blood of the Undead might be better placed when swapped, can't really decide on that.
Tunnel Rat		er round, meaning, you can only use this action once per round?
Champion of Earth		When does this come into effect (as in, do you trap the people that are in your hex right now, or the people that are entering that hex). What if you are attacked when you use this action (question holds for other actions as well)? What happens if you use this when inside a besieged city (especially, the turn the attackers try to enter).
Diversion		Is the upgraded version banned too? If so, what does it do to skills like Tremors or Stellar Radiation?
Hallucination		Is this skill passive, or activated?
Phoenix Rider	For every 6 hexes you move using 'Phoenix Rider', discard one card.	Might need to be changed to, for every 'TURN' or '6 hexes (rounded up)' using 'phoenix rider' discard one card. Else 11 hexes would result in only 1 discard
Bombardment		1 NPC garrison = 30 cards? And is that THE siege action, or any siege action (so in- or excluding the ones from gravity and water skills).
Destroy		What improvements? I can only find the tunnel entrances (now the build a mill,etc. skills are removed).
Berserker		Aura of Rage will be easy to avoid, making it quite weak, because of it's cost: with a cost of 3 you can't move and use it, so you will have to use it on the hex you are standing on (except for Clockmaker). With a cost of ►► or ►►☼ you would be able to move one hex and cast the skill, for a better suprise effect, more fun, and more power for the skill itself.
Hellfire		same argument as used above holds here too.
		There is talk of a fortress in this skill tree, that isn't mentioned anywhere else. Do the normal siege and the steam pirate skill also work on fortresses (whatever they are and whatever they do).
Architect		what is the difference between improvements and structures, and what improvements and structures anyways.
		On a sidenote, if this is about building your own Towns and fortresses (and maybe even wonder) wouldn't it be a good idea to require two people for building a town (so someone can't just randomly build towns, that is, if there is a limit on the number of towns a team can build). And would it be a good way to allow multiple people to build a big improvement together (splitting the required number of action points)?
Champion of Gravity		makes for an awkward (in my opinion) synergy with Low Point of Gravity.
Nature Rituals		Do you have to stand on/close to that hex? The wording (and the example) imply you can use it anywhere on the map (as long if there is at least one forest hex on the map).
Animal Form		Cannot be used on a non-forest hex is subject to confusion, like: can I activate it on a non forest hex to move through two forest hexes, can I activate in a forest to move over the edge of the forest, or do all three hexes have to be forest hexes?
Scouting		do you have to use the skill in a hex to be immune to lotus traps in that hex, or are you immune anyway?
Shaman		Rewarding with both an extra forest hex for all previous skill AND +4xp looks double and too much for me.
Cure		Can this be used to clear the deck and battle restrictions on a player when he is locked in battle? For example: Bill meets Frank, and they get locked in battle, and Frank has a few skill that restrict Bill's decks (or battle). Can I use Cure to remove those effects and give Bill his free deckbuilding back (if I happen to be in the same hex as Bill the round(s) they are locked in battle?
Protector		'Protect' no longer costs two Action Points OR 'Protect' costs now one Action Point.
Lightbringer		I read this as: 'Inspire: All allies in the same hex are allowed to use up to 3 additional upgraded cards during a battle.' If am right this wording is much clearer. And a question, does this effect ever wear off?? (for example, after one round or, more fun, after the lightbringer moves again). Also, does this work for the lightbringer himself?
Research		Lasts 6 turns meaning you have to wait 6 turns before you can use research again to get another skill, or can you use it earlier again to change
Pirate's Grog		How will the downgrading be done considering the 'no deckschange'-rule? You simply have to chose 6 creatures you use upgraged in the previous round, and downgrade them.
Arctic Mage		How is this combined with skills resulting in 'your opponent can use X less upgraded cards'? Most reasonable would be: Number of cards opponent can use = Minimum(Basic number of cards opponent can use + bonusses due to skills - punishments due to skills, 12), because it states you opponent can use a MAXIMUM of 12 cards.
Critical Strike		I didn't notice until I got here, but in here duel should be replaced with battle (because battle is generally used for a set of (up to) 3 duels (compare One with Nature and Predator). Might be more of these discrepancies (in all mark of ... skills duels could/should be replaced by battles, also for Improved Salvaging).
Revenge		Does this skill require you to keep a complete list of all opponents you have lost against? Or only the last one? Also, does the 'counter' get reset to 0 when you actually manage to win (I guess so, but it is not stated anywhere).
Bargaining		I haven't seen that 'special price' mentioned anywhere.
Improved Salvaging		an ADDITIONAL???
Swindling		Name a Common or Uncommon card AND A PLAYER. Target player in the same hex is forced to trade that card for one of your cards.
		And what are these assasinate and illegal goods quests? Will (an example/preview) of these be shown in the global overview, so you can decide these are worth it, or not

Fast Travel:
Dimensional Walk		Good skill, only restricted in a strait line. T2 skill makes up for that.
Assault Team		Nice skill, good for a major assault, but might be hard to coördinate (depending on the number of players per team).
Cloud Rider		Good, makes up for 's pretty restrictive skill, allows you to save some skill points (which is always usefull) though it might make Assault team pretty useless later on.
Shadow Leap		Another good skill which usefullness depends on the number op players. T2 feels like the right tier.
Death March		Can you use other movement actions this round (with Cloud Rider or Clockmaker). Good for a sprint to a target or for escaping an Aggressive Charge. For long distances not much faster than normal movement. T1 is right.
Chaos Jump		Funny skill that fits the team, T1 is the right tier, but  ►►►☼ might be a bit too expensive, considering there is a good change simply walking there would be faster.
Phoenix Rider		One of the fastest skills, but restricted to a few routes and not the whole map.  Also you need to pay with a few cards of your choice (hmm, why not a 'simple' relic, like lots of other skills).
Iron Bird		Can be the fastest skill, depending on the placing of the Iron Birds. (btw, can you place the Iron Bird inside a City/Town/Fortress/Whatever?). Nice skill, unique, restricted, but still customizable. T1 approved.
Animal Form		I like the idea, but I'm afraid this skill will get better and better over time, because there are two skill that can generate forest hexes (of which one passive) while that is only one that can delete (and that one is active). T1 approved because of the starting field, but if possible (and usefull) I field it could be T2 worthy by the end (if there is one) of WoE.
Horseback Riding		The fastest skill of all skills, at least, if you can use it twice a round. Its real usefullness will depend on the placing of the stallions, but taking the Alpha map as an example it can be great even when you can't use it twice a round to make a great sprint to the light capital (arriving a 1.5 turn earlier, assuming you want to spend 4 action points in the city you can win two whole turns). But because of this type of fast travel for light, light might be best placed in a corner.
Tunnel Rat, Camel Riding		Very slow, if they can be used only once each round, they can only be used to save action points, and for greater orders I can't see how you could spend those on your way. Earth's skill is customizable, while time's isn't, so I feel time should get a little + (or earth a little -). (edit: with the new map, camel rider allows you to take the camel almost anywere on the path, which would make up for the 'loss' of customizability.
Ship Navigator		Slow but still faster than usual, while saving action points. The biggest question is, how long will I travel when I start at the lake and travel 12 hexes (towards entropy capital)? 3 hexes a turn, thus 4 turns. Or 3 hexes for 3 action points, thus 12 action points total (like other big orders), which would be (only) 3 rounds. And if the first one, can I spend the saved action point(s) from the previous rounds/last round?

Well, that it is for now, as it is 04:27 already (yes that is am, and I haven't slept yet). I tried to look at all the descriptions as dumb as possible (and not having had any sleep helps), I hope this comment can help SG to make the rules even clearer.


And it is almost two o'clock again and I'm still editing this.

Woah, that's a lot of feedback. I'm a bit busy atm but I will look at this later. Thanks!

[Jappert]

Question:

I changed my trade contents (added some sells or buys) with the merchant a few times today. How will you know if the trade happened during day 1 and wasn't editted at a later stage? It seems very easy to cheat with a few trades here and there atm.

And unfortunately the inability to prevent cheating will only get worse as the game progresses. All the important stats (money, cards, items, XP, skills trained, etc) are tracked by the player themselves, so we're forced to rely solely on the integrity of the participants. The only solution I can think of right now is perhaps designating one trustworthy player from each element as an auditor who checks their teams stats occasionally. Even with 13 auditors it'd still be time consuming and only a deterrent at best, but it would be better than nothing.

I do think we need something like this. Finding 13 trustworthy players should be doable and some sort of internal audit could at least prevent part of this potential problem.

I thought this was the right place to post this discussion in.

[Scaredgirl]

I made some random changes based on the feedback by The dictator. I will do more tomorrow.

[MatrimKK]

I feel the days are coming by very quickly already.  I was under the assumption that WoE could be played by once a week.  While I'm sure that this is still true I feel like I would be missing a lot this way and not able to accurately contribute feedback to this Beta at playing 1 of 7 days.  How will battling work with days going by so fast?  I know we want to keep this interesting and fast paced, but I believe this is a bit much for casual play and to properly evaluate beta.  I think several people have already missed day 1 and may very well miss day 2.  15 minutes a day doesn't sound like much but to provide valuable feedback or have to have the capacity to appear competitive, there needs time for team strategy and adapting to a new system/environment. 

[gumbeh]

I feel the days are coming by very quickly already.  I was under the assumption that WoE could be played by once a week.  While I'm sure that this is still true I feel like I would be missing a lot this way and not able to accurately contribute feedback to this Beta at playing 1 of 7 days.  How will battling work with days going by so fast?  I know we want to keep this interesting and fast paced, but I believe this is a bit much for casual play and to properly evaluate beta.  I think several people have already missed day 1 and may very well miss day 2.  15 minutes a day doesn't sound like much but to provide valuable feedback or have to have the capacity to appear competitive, there needs time for team strategy and adapting to a new system/environment.

I, too, had gotten the impression that this event would be geared towards casual play. I understand that no one's going to penalize me for playing, say, every other day, but I will still be penalized - everyone else will be twice as far ahead of me!

Additionally, 15 minutesmight, someday, be an accurate representation of the time commitment. What actually happened was that I read the tutorial, went to submit an action, checked the map, looked at my actions and wondered if they were okay, read the tut thread again, was still unsure, read through the rules, and then submitted my action. Half hour at the barest minimum. This time cost may well be added to most of the actions in the game, the first and second time we use them.

[Xenocidius]

For me, it's about 5 minutes a day.

During the first few days of WoE I imagine it will be quite serious, and logging on every day will give a huge advantage, but afterwards it may drift towards casual gameplay.

[Scaredgirl]

I feel the days are coming by very quickly already.  I was under the assumption that WoE could be played by once a week.  While I'm sure that this is still true I feel like I would be missing a lot this way and not able to accurately contribute feedback to this Beta at playing 1 of 7 days.  How will battling work with days going by so fast?  I know we want to keep this interesting and fast paced, but I believe this is a bit much for casual play and to properly evaluate beta.  I think several people have already missed day 1 and may very well miss day 2.  15 minutes a day doesn't sound like much but to provide valuable feedback or have to have the capacity to appear competitive, there needs time for team strategy and adapting to a new system/environment.

WoE is a lot like an MMORPG like World of Warcraft for example. There are both casual and hard-core players, with latter having an advantage because they are more active. That's how it should be imo. It would be silly to restrict active players just so that less active players can catch up. All that would do is make the pace of the event really slow. Fun, complex events where players do something for only 10 minutes a week, do not exist. In order for these kinds of events to be fun, they do require some effort from the participants.

WoE is a bit like the Oracle: you login once a day, spin the wheel, and wait 24 hours. Skipping the Oracle every now and then won't make you "lose the Oracle game", but you will probably have less Nymphs than those who spin it every day, which is how it should be since they have put more effort to it.

I feel the days are coming by very quickly already.  I was under the assumption that WoE could be played by once a week.  While I'm sure that this is still true I feel like I would be missing a lot this way and not able to accurately contribute feedback to this Beta at playing 1 of 7 days.  How will battling work with days going by so fast?  I know we want to keep this interesting and fast paced, but I believe this is a bit much for casual play and to properly evaluate beta.  I think several people have already missed day 1 and may very well miss day 2.  15 minutes a day doesn't sound like much but to provide valuable feedback or have to have the capacity to appear competitive, there needs time for team strategy and adapting to a new system/environment.

I, too, had gotten the impression that this event would be geared towards casual play. I understand that no one's going to penalize me for playing, say, every other day, but I will still be penalized - everyone else will be twice as far ahead of me!

Additionally, 15 minutesmight, someday, be an accurate representation of the time commitment. What actually happened was that I read the tutorial, went to submit an action, checked the map, looked at my actions and wondered if they were okay, read the tut thread again, was still unsure, read through the rules, and then submitted my action. Half hour at the barest minimum. This time cost may well be added to most of the actions in the game, the first and second time we use them.

If it takes you half an hour to perform those actions, you are probably doing something wrong, or are being overly cautious. All you need to do is open that updating form and insert recommended actions that are mentioned in the Day topic. Lets take Day 2 as an example. Only real work would be to look at the map and insert correct hex numbers after Capture and Move. That should take less than 5 minutes, and after you've done it a couple of times, it will take 1 minute.

It should get easier very fast.

[Xenocidius]

Earthquake should definitely NOT be common. Against Monos with no pendulums, it's far too powerful.