Decks Used Against Arena with Stats 1.32

[rob77dp]

Spoiler for Mono Air Rush by iancudorinmarian:

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7ms 7ms 7ms 7ms 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mv 7mv 7mv 7n0 7n0 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7oe 7oe 7oe 8pr

Number of Games Played
66 vs Bronze
Wins
63
Losses
3
Elemental Masteries
4
Average Turns to Win
7.8

Additionall Stats:
Time per match
67 seconds
Score/hr
13
/hr
2191
Special Spins per hr
8.9
Total SS
11

[zombie0]

@ ColorlessGreen  one of the traps that documenting a deck you really believe in, that you are really pulling for, is to fudge the numbers.  one rationalizes that the deck SHOULD have won, but maybe THEY made a misplay.  or that they dont count a losing streak because its not fair, or "abnormal".

your ability to pilot the deck, to anticipate the best chances to win with it are assumed in these kinds of studies.  we assume you are a master player that gave it the best shot.  but reality is very different.  how often have we copied and pasted a "60-70% win" deck and got stomped 8/10 times.  we shake our head at the screen and go "well that didnt go right".  if we scrapped our old deck to build this new amazing thing, we are pretty pissed at the tradeoff.

in the end, we need a gigantic sample size (to see all parts of the roller coaster a deck may go through), and honesty.  for example, ive tried the water mark patience decks.  sometimes its a blowout in your favor, but just as often you have this massive CC you dont need and damage is too slow.  the AI draws cards and does things while you patiently wait for big enough creatures, or your shards, or that purify that you desperately need etc.  they steal your SoP and beat you over the head with it.  seen it all.  ill give your posted deck a shot, id like to see the results for myself...but everyone should remember to take reported stats with a grain of salt.

[ColorlessGreen]

@ ColorlessGreen  one of the traps that documenting a deck you really believe in, that you are really pulling for, is to fudge the numbers.  one rationalizes that the deck SHOULD have won, but maybe THEY made a misplay.  or that they dont count a losing streak because its not fair, or "abnormal".

your ability to pilot the deck, to anticipate the best chances to win with it are assumed in these kinds of studies.  we assume you are a master player that gave it the best shot.  but reality is very different.  how often have we copied and pasted a "60-70% win" deck and got stomped 8/10 times.  we shake our head at the screen and go "well that didnt go right".  if we scrapped our old deck to build this new amazing thing, we are pretty pissed at the tradeoff.

in the end, we need a gigantic sample size (to see all parts of the roller coaster a deck may go through), and honesty.  for example, ive tried the water mark patience decks.  sometimes its a blowout in your favor, but just as often you have this massive CC you dont need and damage is too slow.  the AI draws cards and does things while you patiently wait for big enough creatures, or your shards, or that purify that you desperately need etc.  they steal your SoP and beat you over the head with it.  seen it all.  ill give your posted deck a shot, id like to see the results for myself...but everyone should remember to take reported stats with a grain of salt.

What exactly are you accusing me of here?

None of the decks I've done stats for are decks I've built, that I particularly believe in, or that I particularly want to win. If you look at my posts, you'd see that I'm doing a lot of stats for a wide range of decks, trying to figure out what actually works, and that I'm doing it using the exact methods requested in the OP.

Please tell me precisely what deck(s) that I tested that you think I lied about and why you think I lied.

Better yet, take any of the decks you think I lied about, build it, make sure you understand how to play it, and then submit your own stats so that we have larger sample sizes as you requested.

[rob77dp]

Spoiler for Mono Air Rush by iancudorinmarian:

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7ms 7ms 7ms 7ms 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mv 7mv 7mv 7n0 7n0 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7oe 7oe 7oe 8pr

Number of Games Played: 102 vs Bronze
Wins: 97
Losses: 5
Elemental Masteries: 6
Average Turns to Win: 7.8

Additionall Stats:
Win Percentage: 95.1%
Time per match: 68 seconds
Score/hr: 5
/hr: 2263
Special Spins per hr: 8.9
Total SS: 17

[ColorlessGreen]

For the less wealthy people, some tests of unupped, shardless, low-rare decks in silver:

PvP Graboid Rainbow By Antagon
W:76 L:74 %:50.67% TTW:9.08 EM:4/76 EM%:5.26%

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4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vh 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 52q 52q 55q 55q 590 590 590 590 590 5c1 5c1 5f6 5f6 5i7 5og 5og 61q 61q 8pm

I'm not totally certain, but I'm just about sure this is the fastest score grinder in unupped, shardless, low-rare land, at least if you've gotten enough score to be higher than the average opponents in pvp1. I also very much doubt the performance is terribly impacted by replacing the arsenics with poisons or something if you don't have those. It's not as good for getting rares in this environment as bronze, but it's really great for score.


Regen2k9's Unupped MonoDark By Regen2k9
W:24 L:27 %:47.06% TTW:9.46 EM:4/24 EM%:16.67%

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5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5ul 5ul 5ul 5ul 5ul 5ul 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5up 5up 5up 5up 5ur 5us 5us 5us 606 606 606 606 606 8pt

Almost as good as the antabow for score grinding due to the chance of EM's, but personally I find it a lot less fun than the antabow. Also should work almost exactly as well totally rareless.


The following two decks I don't really recommend due to being pretty much completely outclassed by some of the above, but here they are anyways just for information's sake:

Toxic Shriekers By Xenocidius
W:17 L:33 %:34.00% TTW:8.53 EM:1/17 EM%:5.88%

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4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vh 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 55q 590 590 590 590 590 590 5c7 5f6 5if 5if 5lf 8pm

I really like this deck, and I seem to recall it performed about as well as antabow in bronze, but the relative lack of control really hurt it in silver. Pretty much no reason to play this deck over antabow in silver that I can see.

Fastest unupped mono AI3 farmer (aka classic mono-death) By MrBlonde
W:15 L:35 %:30.00% TTW:8.47 EM:1/15 EM%:6.67%

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52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52h 52h 52h 52h 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52t 52t 52t 52t 52t 52t 8pk

Pretty much don't bother taking this deck in silver at all. The 15-35 I went with this was boosted with six 1hp decks, one 12hp deck, and one farm, which is pretty atypically lucky for silver at the moment.


edit: While I'm at it, from a usability standpoint, it might not be a bad idea to separate unupped decks from upped decks in the OP. I also don't at all care if you don't bother to include monodeath or toxic shriekers in the OP.

[eaglgenes101]

This thread should have been updated yesterday. It wasn't.

[Elbirn]

Spoiler for Mono Air Rush by iancudorinmarian:

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7ms 7ms 7ms 7ms 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mv 7mv 7mv 7n0 7n0 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7oe 7oe 7oe 8pr

Number of Games Played: 102 vs Bronze
Wins: 97
Losses: 5
Elemental Masteries: 6
Average Turns to Win: 7.8

Additionall Stats:
Win Percentage: 95.1%
Time per match: 68 seconds
Score/hr: 5
/hr: 2263
Special Spins per hr: 8.9
Total SS: 17

Is this a continuation of your previous post, or are they two separate runs?

[eaglgenes101]

*sigh* Wrong again! It's 25/35 for day traitors, not 30/40.

[rob77dp]

Spoiler for Hidden:

Spoiler for Mono Air Rush by iancudorinmarian:

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7ms 7ms 7ms 7ms 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mu 7mv 7mv 7mv 7n0 7n0 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7oe 7oe 7oe 8pr

Number of Games Played: 102 vs Bronze
Wins: 97
Losses: 5
Elemental Masteries: 6
Average Turns to Win: 7.8

Additionall Stats:
Win Percentage: 95.1%
Time per match: 68 seconds
Score/hr: 5
/hr: 2263
Special Spins per hr: 8.9
Total SS: 17

Is this a continuation of your previous post, or are they two separate runs?

The second post includes the stats from the previous similar post by me.  Sorry for the confusion!

[eaglgenes101]

I suggest that, instead of the current ranking, that the decks be organized like this:
Bronze: Upped Rare Winners (3), Unupped Rare Winners (2)
Silver: Upped Rare Winner, Upped Electrum Winner, Upped Score Winner, Unupped Rare Winner, Unupped Electrum Winner
Gold: Upped Rare Winner, Upped Electrum Winner, Upped Score Winner, Upped Compromise Winner (Greatest Geometric mean of electrum, rares, and score), Unupped Compromise Winner (replace with another upped compromise winner if no unupped decks are submitted)
Plat: Same as gold

[ColorlessGreen]

I suggest that, instead of the current ranking, that the decks be organized like this:
Bronze: Upped Rare Winners (3), Unupped Rare Winners (2)
Silver: Upped Rare Winner, Upped Electrum Winner, Upped Score Winner, Unupped Rare Winner, Unupped Electrum Winner
Gold: Upped Rare Winner, Upped Electrum Winner, Upped Score Winner, Upped Compromise Winner (Greatest Geometric mean of electrum, rares, and score), Unupped Compromise Winner (replace with another upped compromise winner if no unupped decks are submitted)
Plat: Same as gold

I've been thinking about stuff like that too, since win rate is often not a very good indicator of overall efficiency. I'd worry about overtly declaring any given thing best though, just because once everyone starts assuming it's the best option, the meta within the arena will very quickly swing against it.

FWIW, assuming that TTW=TTL, if you take TTW and divide by win rate, you get the expected number of turns per win, which is a simplified efficiency index, and which greatly changes the ranking of the various decks, though it definitely isn't perfect due to the large number of things it doesn't account for. I'm kinda working on a more complex formula based on that but incorporating loss from losses and profit from spins and EMs and such that could be used in place of FGei for arena decks, but it isn't totally ready yet.

[Elbirn]

I get that there's all kinds of more efficient and accurate ways to track what the best deck is. But frankly I'm not certain about going that in depth...

Would an efficiency index akin to the FGei system be awesome? Why yes, yes it would. But it would require that every deck submitted from now on have incredibly tedious time, score, and electrum tracking, which 99% of testers will not do. Hell, I don't even know how to. I like the simplicity of the current system, as it's open and friendly to anyone submitting stats. Putting an ARENAei would also mean restarting the thread, as none of the stats collected thus far have any of those things.

If an efficiency rating can be made by calculating Win percent, TTW, and EM chance into one number, that would be great IMO. But then you get into time spent even losing, which I still don't agree with completely, and tracking pennies and digits, and I start falling asleep...

As for tracking of rares won, I don't find this to be a very useful/accurate statistic. It's...Very imprecise, I feel. A deck that has a higher winrate than another will be the one most likely to win rares, and thus would have a higher "Rare's won" statistic anyway. And if it didn't, that would have to be a statistical anomaly.

As for score/electrum won: I may be incredibly wrong here, but aren't these the same? I'm fairly certain that, against AI0-3 at least, if memory serves, that electrum won translates into score won at a 1:1 ratio.

ColorlessGreen, you mentioned tracking money won from spins, which I assume means the wee bonuses you get from spinning 2-3 in a row, plus the value of the card itself. If so: I don't find that fair, as that's completely random and has nothing to do with the deck.

Just my 2 ^_^ I'm probably wrong on a lot of this, just wanted to state my points, see what you gents have to say, etc.