Which elements are "Complete"?

[OldTrees]

I made a new table, with more info, including counters to other strategies. It may or may not be any good still. Not to mention it no longer fits on the page. I was surprised at all the counters after I started looking.

Thanks for the effort. That research gave you encyclopedic knowledge that will make your help very useful. However that table might be misleading to lurkers.

OldTrees very big table!

Ok, now it's clear! 
I understood what you meant with Offensive Tools. These are archetypes of strategies. Something between a deck-level and a card-level.

Yes. But be careful to not get these confused with the Deck level strategies: Rush, Charge, Dominate and Stall.

If you would improve the table that would be much appreciated. I am known for my theory not my pvp ability.

[Pineapple]

Well, you can use a combination of tools/methods to win, so are you assuming that how much worth is in one copy of that card doesn't matter? And "how serious" I would be would depend on how easily I can be countered, for example, if my opponent plays a shield with at least 1 damage reduction and I'm using a deck whose only damage comes from unupped deja vus, then I'm screwed so I'd never rely on only deja vus. On the other hand, I could seriously rely on 3 titans without animates to kill my opponent while I focus the rest of my deck on "defensive measures." And in the end, we'd be analyzing decks, but right now we're analyzing mono elements..

Now, is that still a table of offensives? Because I think some should count as evasion, such as bolts.

Here's how I see it: Each card/tool has a power value, counter value, and counter/evasion-resistance value.

Creatures with high attack (most basic way of killing the opponent) <= Countered by single-target CC <= Evaded by swarming relatively low atk/hp creatures <= countered by mass-target CC and shields <= All CC is evaded by alternate damage, hardest damage to counter is that by spell.
Also not the single-target CC is Evaded through creatures with high HP, which is countered/evaded with Reverse time...

Creatures with abilities <= single-target CC <= Evaded through spells that mimic the creatures' abilities...

Basically, attacker(practical damage-to-cost ratio) creatures and weapons have the highest power value because they deal damage over time, while other things deal one instance of damage. If left alone, most creatures will do more damage. The counter values can be split into two groups, creatures/permanents and spells, since spells can't be countered (but they can be evaded), but creatures/permanents can be destroyed. Creature counter-resistance is determined by its health (or in phoenix's case ability, by now I've started to use counter and evade interchangeably). Counter-value is and counter-resistance value are also majorly determined by the current meta-game.

Rambling because its late, but what's important is that each card has 3 values, and the ranks are something like this:

Power Value (how to get your opponent's health to 0):
High attack creatures and weapons
Low attack creatures and weapons
Damage spells

Counter Value(the easier they counter things with high power value, the higher their counter value):
Subversion spells (antimatter)
Destruction spells (remember that it includes damage spells since most can target creatures, also includes permanent control)
destruction creature/permanent abilities, summoning sickness
Stalling/healing (SoG, Heal, Freeze, Basilisk Blood, non-cc shields? they don't completely negate the creature, they just slow it down)
stalling/healing creature/permanent abilities, summoning sickness

Counter-Counter Value(The easier these things counter things with high counter value, the higher their counter-counter value.):
Spells
Creatures/permanents

[OldTrees]

Good point patchx. I did not detail my method of measuring offense clearly enough. (Although you have a good grip of how to measure if an Offensive tool is solid.)

Competitive strategic(in-between deck and card level) choices in the metagame would be Solid Offensive Methods. Currently the most hilarious Offensive Method that I can think of as the opposite of Solid would be a Mono Light deck trying to win though Offensive Spells (Holy Light).

Tools (cards) have different aptitude towards each Offensive, Defensive and Evasive method. Some of those aptitudes are 0 (SoG's aptitude at the Offensive method of melee).

I would like the majority of the focus to be at the Method level. The deck level has too many variations and the card level is not as simple because most cards fit multiple Methods.

Based on the chart I made a few posts ago.
I notice  and seem to only have 2 solid Offensive Methods:Melee and Deckout (When ignoring the potency of defensive methods combined with deckout.)
I notice  (and  depending on if Colossal Dragon counts) have only 2 tool variations for the Melee Offensive method. Would the game benefit if these elements had this Offensive method expanded?
I notice Swarm variants tend to rely on 1 swarm producing card. Would the game benefit if these elements had this Offensive method expanded?

Side note: Offensive methods and Defensive methods get blurry at 2 points
"The best Offensive is a good Defense" or Deckout AND "The best Defense is a good Offense" or Rush

[10 men]

Yeah this whole "complete" argument is just a subterfuge to not have Fire nerfed imo.
Fire is in no way the only Element that has access to a variety of strategies, I mean Darkness has PC and stalling and rushing too, or Earth. The difference is solely that Fire's cards are much stronger than those of the other Elements. Each of the individual cards may be "balanced" (if by that you mean borderline-op), but at the end of the day two major strategies in this game are rushing and stalling. And Fire simply has the best cards for both of those strategies.
I don't even have a problem with the rushing part, I mean Fire is supposed to be explosive and all, so it makes sense that they're fast and good at that. What really doesn't fit is the stalling part. I remember when the first Firestalls popped up people totally wtf'd as it didn't make sense that the most fickle Element of all would sit there for like 20 turns doing nothing but playing CC and PC to eventually kill you with some leftover Bolts or Fahrens, or even deck you out. But I mean what do you expect has 4 cards than get better the longer the game progresses (Bolt, Fahren, Golem, Spirit)? Those four are the cards you need to look at if you want to fix Fire. Especially Bolt and Fahren. Bolt could be changed to something more similar to Lightning or Shockwave, the pumpspell mechanic just doesn't fit Fire. Fahrenheit probably need a complete overhaul. Or you just nerf both cards into oblivion, that would work as well.

[The_Mormegil]

Yeah this whole "complete" argument is just a subterfuge to not have Fire nerfed imo.
Fire is in no way the only Element that has access to a variety of strategies, I mean Darkness has PC and stalling and rushing too, or Earth. The difference is solely that Fire's cards are much stronger than those of the other Elements. Each of the individual cards may be "balanced" (if by that you mean borderline-op), but at the end of the day two major strategies in this game are rushing and stalling. And Fire simply has the best cards for both of those strategies.
I don't even have a problem with the rushing part, I mean Fire is supposed to be explosive and all, so it makes sense that they're fast and good at that. What really doesn't fit is the stalling part. I remember when the first Firestalls popped up people totally wtf'd as it didn't make sense that the most fickle Element of all would sit there for like 20 turns doing nothing but playing CC and PC to eventually kill you with some leftover Bolts or Fahrens, or even deck you out. But I mean what do you expect has 4 cards than get better the longer the game progresses (Bolt, Fahren, Golem, Spirit)? Those four are the cards you need to look at if you want to fix Fire. Especially Bolt and Fahren. Bolt could be changed to something more similar to Lightning or Shockwave, the pumpspell mechanic just doesn't fit Fire. Fahrenheit probably need a complete overhaul. Or you just nerf both cards into oblivion, that would work as well.

I'm gonna quote this and add it to the Metagame Issue: Fire. If you want, I'd be happy if you post a list of potential fixes here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30797.0.html), with some explaining, so that I can add a second take on the argument in the opening post.

[OldTrees]

Yeah this whole "complete" argument is just a subterfuge to not have Fire nerfed imo.
Fire is in no way the only Element that has access to a variety of strategies, I mean Darkness has PC and stalling and rushing too, or Earth. The difference is solely that Fire's cards are much stronger than those of the other Elements. Each of the individual cards may be "balanced" (if by that you mean borderline-op), but at the end of the day two major strategies in this game are rushing and stalling. And Fire simply has the best cards for both of those strategies.
I don't even have a problem with the rushing part, I mean Fire is supposed to be explosive and all, so it makes sense that they're fast and good at that. What really doesn't fit is the stalling part. I remember when the first Firestalls popped up people totally wtf'd as it didn't make sense that the most fickle Element of all would sit there for like 20 turns doing nothing but playing CC and PC to eventually kill you with some leftover Bolts or Fahrens, or even deck you out. But I mean what do you expect has 4 cards than get better the longer the game progresses (Bolt, Fahren, Golem, Spirit)? Those four are the cards you need to look at if you want to fix Fire. Especially Bolt and Fahren. Bolt could be changed to something more similar to Lightning or Shockwave, the pumpspell mechanic just doesn't fit Fire. Fahrenheit probably need a complete overhaul. Or you just nerf both cards into oblivion, that would work as well.

Well I for one think improving the strategic defensive and offensive capabilities of the other elements is a more effective form of balance in the long run than nerfing specific fire cards. In fact this thread is about measuring these deficiencies to be able to correct them. In doing so this also makes the metagame more resilient to slightly OP cards. By buffing the other options you nerf fire.

As for darkness, it could use another solid offensive melee tool and better defenses against skill based creatures and denial.

As for fire I do see it as explosive but that does not entail speedy to me it entails destructive. The Rush thru Stall strategies of Fire all center around destruction with a focus that shifts from the opponent (Rush) to mostly the opponent's offense (Arena Fire stall).

[OldTrees]

Assuming the chart below is complete enough for Mono Offensive methods, can each element defend(Removal, Disable, Negation, Mitigation) against these Offensive tools? Where are defenses lacking?

All have ", Deckout (the free method)" implied but there is no deckout accelerating tools yet.

	Melee (2 variants Phase Dragon or Phase Recluse) Swarm (1.5 variants Fractal+Spark or Fractal+Phase Recluse)
	Melee (3 variants Wyrms, Dragons or Animated Owl's Eyes. Skyblitz Augments)
	Melee (2 variants Dragons or Gargoyles. Eclipses Augments) Spell (1 variant Drain Life)
	Melee (5 variants Dragons, Mummys, Vultures or Recluses) Poison (2 variants Poison or Arsenic)
	Melee (2 variants Shriekers or Dragons)
	Melee (2 variants Abominations or Dragons. Chaos Power Augments)
	Melee (4 variants Phoenixes, Dragons, Fire spirits or Farhenheit) Spell (1 variant Fire Lances)
	Melee (3 variants Chargers, Dragons or Acceleration)
	Melee (3 variants Frogs, Cockatrices or Dragons. Adrenaline Augments) Swarm (1 variant Mitosis. Adrenaline augments)
	Melee (3 variants Dragons, Archangels or Crusader. Blessing Augments)
	Melee (2 variants Dragons or Ghosts) Swarm (2 variants Pharaoh or Scarabs)
	Melee (3 variants Abyss Crawlers, Dragons or ToadFishes|Pufferfishes) Spell (1 variant Ice Bolt)

I did not include any weapon without scaling damage or Animate Weapon in element. If you disagree then there would be +1 variant for melee.
Added Fractal Spark and Fractal Recluse to Aether. Please correct me if you disagree. I do not have much experience with Mono Aether.

 
Lightining (Remove up to 30 creature hp [Targets])
Lobotomy (Remove creature skills [Targets])
Dimensional Shield (Negates creature attack for 3 turns [Does not Target])
No Defensive Methods against Spell, Poison or Deckout Offensive Methods.
 
Fog Shield (Mitigate creature attack [Does not Target])
Wings (Negates walking creature attack [Does not Target])
Shockwave (Remove up to 24 creature hp mono [Targets])
Snipe (Remove 3 creature hp [Targets])
No Defensive Methods against Spell, Poison or Deckout Offensive Methods.

[TheManuz]

 
Dusk Mantle | Improved Dusk (Mitigate creature attack [Does not Target])
Drain Life | Syphon Life (Remove variable creature hp [Targets])
Liquid Shadow | Liquid Shadow (Remove creature skills, remove creature hp over time [Targets])
No Defensive Methods against Spell, Poison or Deckout Offensive Methods.

I'm not sure if i'm missing something.

[OldTrees]

Dusk Mantle | Improved Dusk (Mitigate creature attack [Does not Target])
Drain Life | Syphon Life (Remove variable creature hp [Targets])
Liquid Shadow | Liquid Shadow (Remove creature skills, remove creature hp over time [Targets])
Steal (Remove permanent [Targets])
Devourer (Remove quanta hence Disabling cards in hand [Does not Target])
Various forms of healing (Mitigate/Negate damage [Does not Target])

No Defensive Methods against Spell, Poison or Deckout Offensive Methods.

I'm not sure if i'm missing something.

Steal is additional defense against the weapons listed. Steal can also be used like Devourer below (disable cards)
Devourer can prevent an offense from being played
Healing Mitigates/Negates damage and thus is a defense against Poison

[TheManuz]

Dusk Mantle | Improved Dusk (Mitigate creature attack [Does not Target])
Drain Life | Syphon Life (Remove variable creature hp [Targets])
Liquid Shadow | Liquid Shadow (Remove creature skills, remove creature hp over time [Targets])
Steal (Remove permanent [Targets])
Devourer (Remove quanta hence Disabling cards in hand [Does not Target])
Various forms of healing (Mitigate/Negate damage [Does not Target])

No Defensive Methods against Spell, Poison or Deckout Offensive Methods.

I'm not sure if i'm missing something.

Steal is additional defense against the weapons listed. Steal can also be used like Devourer below (disable cards)
Devourer can prevent an offense from being played
Healing Mitigates/Negates damage and thus is a defense against Poison

I knew i was missing something! 

[OldTrees]

Oh, I forgot. Steal and Devourer can be used as defense against the Spell Offensive Method too.

 
 
Lightining (Remove up to 30 creature hp [Targets])
Lobotomy (Remove creature skills [Targets])
Dimensional Shield (Negates creature attack for 3 turns [Does not Target])
No Defensive Methods against Spell, Poison or Deckout Offensive Methods.

 
Fog Shield (Mitigate creature attack [Does not Target])
Wings (Negates walking creature attack [Does not Target])
Shockwave (Remove up to 24 creature hp mono [Targets])
Snipe (Remove 3 creature hp [Targets])
No Defensive Methods against Spell, Poison or Deckout Offensive Methods.

 
Dusk Mantle | Improved Dusk (Mitigate creature attack [Does not Target])
Drain Life | Syphon Life (Remove variable creature hp [Targets])
Liquid Shadow | Liquid Shadow (Remove creature skills, remove creature hp over time [Targets])
Steal (Remove permanent [Targets])
Devourer (Remove quanta hence Disabling cards in hand [Does not Target])
Various forms of healing (Mitigate/Negate damage [Does not Target])
No Defensive Methods against Deckout Offensive Method.

 
Virus (Creature Removal by infection [Targets])
Skull Shield (Creature Negation|Mitigation [Does not Target])
Plague (Mass Creature Removal by infection [Targets])
Bone Wall (Creature Attack Negation [Does not Target])
Alfatoxin (Creature Removal by 2xInfection and Creature Card Disable by clogging field [Targets])
No Defensive Methods against Spell, Poison or Deckout Offensive Methods.

 
Titaninum Shield (Creature Attack Mitigation [Does not Target])
Earthquake (Disable Cards by lack of resources [Targets])
Stone Skin (Damage Mitigation [Does not Target])
Basilisk Blood (Disable Creature for 6 turns [Targets])
Warden (Disable Creature [Targets])
No Defensive Methods against Deckout Offensive Methods.
Thank you for your help The Manuz. Please correct me where I miss some as well.

[Captain Scibra]

Just helping a little, but here's the list of the other seven elements defensive methods.

 
 
 
Antimatter (Creature attack negation, heal Target Attack, attack effects neglected [Targets])
Chaos Seed (Cast variable negative effect spell [Targets]
Pandemonium (Cast variable negative effect spell, mass [Targets]
Dissipation (Creature attack negation, sacrifice quanta [Does not Target])
Mutation (Creature mitigation, alters creature make-up [Targets])
Discord (Quanta mitigation, alters 10 quanta element [Attack])
Butterfly Effect (Remove creature skills limited, remove permanent [Targets])
No Defensive Methods against Deckout Offensive Methods.

 
Rage Potion (remove up to 30|36 creature hp [Targets])
Fire Bolt (remove variable creature hp [Targets])
Rain of Fire (Mass creature removal by 3 damage [Targets])
Fire Shield (Creature negation [Does not Target])
No Defensive Methods against Poison or Deckout Offensive Methods.

 
Gravity Shield | Gravity Shield (Situational creature attack negation [Does not Target])
Gravity Pull (remove up to 6 creatures, requires creature damage present, creature attack mitigation [Targets])
Armagio (Creature attack mitigation[Does not Target])
Otyugh (Remove creature with less hp [Targets])
Black Hole (remove 3 of each quanta hence Disabling cards in hand [Does not Target])
Acceleration (Remove creature skill, remove creature HP over time [Targets])
No Defensive Methods against Deckout Offensive Methods.

 
Carapace (Creature negation by infection [Does not Target])
Mitosis (Remove creature skill [Targets])
Emerald Shield | Jade Shield (Creature attack mitigation, spell damage negation by reflection [Does not Target])
Various forms of healing [Does not Target]
No Defensive Methods against Deckout Offensive Methods.

 
Reflective Shield (Upgraded creature damage mitigation, spell damage negation by reflection [Does not Target])
Holy Light (Remove up to 60 Darkness/Death creature hp, creature attack mitigation [Targets])
Luciferin (creature attack mitigation, augments Hope [Does not Target])
Hope (Variable creature damage mitigation [Does not Target])
Miracle (Variable creature attack mitigation[Does not Target])
Sanctuary (Hand/quanta effect negation, creature attack mitigation [Does not Target])
No Defensive Methods against Deckout Offensive Methods.


Reverse Time (Creature mitigation by reset to hand, prevents deckout [Targets])
Procrastination (Creature attack mitigation [Does not Target])
Sundial (Creature attack negation [Does not Target])
No Defensive Methods against Spell or Poison Offensive Methods.


Purify (Creature attack mitigation, poison attack negation [Does not Target])
Flooding (Creature negation [Does not Target])
Ice Shield (creature attack mitigation [Does not Target])
Freeze (Creature attack mitigation [Targets])
Ice bolt (Remove variable creature hp, creature attack mitigation [Targets])
No Defense Methods against Spell or Deckout Offensive Methods.

I noticed some things as I went over this thread, and helped with the Defensive Methods, but particularly a trait of Gravity was interesting.  Many of its effects incorporate an "all or nothing" idea.  Both a strength and weakness there.