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Offline ArtCrusadeTopic starter

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Buffing Flooding|Inundation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21658.msg277236#msg277236
« on: February 23, 2011, 08:22:10 pm »
If one thing in the world of Elements is clear, then that Flooding needs a buff. Sitting in class and drifting off I thought of Flooding's situation. The reason why I post in Design Theory and not in the Flooding-thread in the buff-section is that my thoughts are way off the card itself.

I'll just list some facts about Flooding (others can add more if necessary):

1) Flooding|Inundation is very situational and will make sure that the enemy will not be able to spam creatures.
2) If the enemy uses less creatures Flooding is a dead card, and if played even slows the player down which is why almost noone uses it (except for farming FGs).
3) The player himself doesn't benefit from using Flooding if the enemy doesn't spam.

Possible solutions I see:

1) Direct buff: Change Flooding's effect.
2) Indirect buff: Add cards which benefit from Flooding.

We saw a lot of discussion regarding possible changes for Flooding with no real success, and as much as I try to think of ways which would make Flooding useful, I don't find anything. Hence I'm suggesting an indirect buff which in my eyes looks like adding new spells and creatures which will benefit from Flooding being on the field (we don't want to waste the upkeep if there's no use for Flooding since we cannot decide not to pay the cost).

After I came to this conclusion I looked around the card ideas section to see if there was someone else who had the same idea already, and yes, there was someone. This (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21004.0.html) is Dark Kraken, the first creature actually benefitting from an active Flooding.

I'd like anyone to post his thoughts on the idea itself or ideas for new creatures into this topic. Don't let Flooding die my people ;)
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Re: Buffing Flooding|Inundation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21658.msg277240#msg277240
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2011, 08:27:58 pm »
1) Direct buff: Change Flooding's effect.
Name: Flooding
Element:  :water
Type: Permanent
Cost:  3 :water
Effect: Kill one non-water non-airborne creature on your opponent's field each turn. Lasts 4 turns. Absorbs :water :water per turn.

Name: Inundation
Element:  :water
Type: Permanent
Cost:  2 :water
Effect: Kill one non-water non-airborne creature on your opponent's field each turn. Lasts 5 turns. Absorbs :water :water per turn.

Maybe it could absord only 1 :water.

Offline Legit

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Re: Buffing Flooding|Inundation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21658.msg277241#msg277241
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2011, 08:28:50 pm »
Many people believe Water as an element needs a buff, including veteran water loyalists such as Essence, and this idea (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17700.0.html) buffs Flooding|Inundation as well as Water in general.

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Re: Buffing Flooding|Inundation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21658.msg277246#msg277246
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2011, 08:35:34 pm »
This perhaps could work well in combination with Challenges for Card Designers (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21649.0.html).  We could propose a challenge to make cards that sync with flooding.


It All Floods Over
Right, so we know Flooding needs a buff.  However, why buff directly when you can add cards that synchronize well with Flooding?
Rules:
-Design 1-3 cards that would work well with Flooding (remember that you'd don't neccessarily have to state the card(s) works with flooding, e.g. you can say the effect requires the creature to be underwater or triggers something every time quanta is absorbed)
-Explain why this card syncs well with Flooding, and make an example deck of how this would work.

Offline Ajit

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Re: Buffing Flooding|Inundation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21658.msg277266#msg277266
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2011, 09:22:41 pm »
Many people believe Water as an element needs a buff, including veteran water loyalists such as Essence, and this idea (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17700.0.html) buffs Flooding|Inundation as well as Water in general.
Saw that idea a while back, and really believe its the direction the world of Elements should take.  Its great.
+
I would love to see Dark Kraken be implemented, especially considering it already has art by vrt and a collective idea by several members.

Offline Legit

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Re: Buffing Flooding|Inundation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21658.msg277281#msg277281
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2011, 09:50:00 pm »
I just saw Dark Kraken. It's simply epic. I wouldn't mind it being added to the game. Just saying.

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Re: Buffing Flooding|Inundation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21658.msg277295#msg277295
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2011, 10:13:33 pm »
Flooding, eh? Lemme think about this. Killing creatures aimlessly is out of the question, and it has an upkeep (optional?) that means it's effect is powerful enough that the longer it is in play, the longer it takes away your resources to achieve something. Freeze? No. Damage? Meh, I don't think something like that should be so similar to Plague, and yet still be weaker.

What we want is a mass effect card (with limits) that remains on the field and requires upkeep. Water can rush in like a tidal wave, but since this thing has an upkeep, that doesn't help the "flash flood" aspect. Erosion is like damage, and I don't wanna go down that road.

Invisibility? No, Cloak has claimed that title. Burrowing effect to Water creatures? Again, no, not worth it if it halves your attack power AND requires an upkeep, even if it is sort of like mass immortality for a price.

I can only think that we need a non-instakill new concept. Completely new, never before introduced to the game. The Flooding clearly "spreads" across the battlefield, so maybe it disrupts quanta? As in, if you pour red water in regular water, it will slowly become red. Maybe it should take on a different effect for each element in which you have more quanta of?

Burning Water
Poison Water
Murky Water
Mud
Rejuvenating Water
etc.

Would this solve a problem? Your quanta directly influences the ability of this card?

The text could be: "Flooding's effect depends on your quanta majority"
Perception is the source of misunderstanding.

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Re: Buffing Flooding|Inundation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21658.msg277835#msg277835
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2011, 07:14:43 pm »
After I came to this conclusion I looked around the card ideas section to see if there was someone else who had the same idea already, and yes, there was someone. This (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21004.0.html) is Dark Kraken, the first creature actually benefitting from an active Flooding.
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,7106.0.html
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21201.msg289481#msg289481
Just saying  ;)

I think that an indirect buff is perfectly fine, because I really like the idea behind flooding. Testing a few flooding-based decks in trainer (against FG's) I mostly ran into one problem: I need flooding, I need stalling (preferably antimatter etc., though with reduced skill costs, arctic squid might work as well), either PA or other possible targets (priority of flooding isn't too high :P) and damage dealers. The only creature benefiting from flooding is vulture. Means you need a lot of quanta-spread and a lot of quanta from one element. Not too great, what?
If there were cards like kraken, dark kraken and gull, you could build a deck a lot easier. Phase/Water? Phase Shields for initial stalling, then quinted squids to get the creatures frozen and then a fractal'ed albatross? SoG's? Why not? And Immortals don't drown, anyway.
Earth/Water? PA for flooding and armor for the squids, then get loads of creatures, with dark kraken killing permanents, kraken dealing some decent damage and granite skin to keep you alive? Yes!
I guess you get what I mean.

Offline ArtCrusadeTopic starter

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Re: Buffing Flooding|Inundation https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21658.msg278438#msg278438
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2011, 04:26:46 pm »
@Kaos: I think your idea wouldn't work well. Hope I don't need to explain why ;)

@Legit: Something like that would be nice. If Submerge was added to all :water creatures Flooding would actually be useful.

@GrimReaper: Totally agree with you, and thanks for posting links to these cards.  I didn't see them yet :)
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