Slay/death (old version)

[TruePurple]

It causes death- thus the death theme. I would say 5 damage a quanta though, since life drain gives a effective bonus of 4 hp on both sides per 10 quanta and this would be more limited then life drain.

Don't forget the idea of possibly stripping of immortality with enough death quanta, lets say 60.

[moomoose]

damage only to creatures - at first i thought this may be interesting, but death already has poisons that can be applied to creatures.

you cannot target an immaterial creature to remove immaterial from it.  that is how it is coded in the game itself

[TruePurple]

Surely when the spell is triggered it would make a point to check for immaterial and negotiate with that code.  Or whatever, I'm no coder, are you? I doubt its deeply implemented in core code where a total remake would be required, or something, though.

You guys have all made very good cases in how there are so many OP cards in this game though.  Maybe that should be fixed. Or at least not have people make capital cases out of someone suggesting something much weaker.

Death has poison which can be applied to creatures

So what? Poison is slower. Death can't have a option to kill faster then say fire or dark or multitudes of other spells in other elements? I find that death having poison means it shouldn't have something quicker, to be silly.

[moomoose]

i actually do write code for a living, in a different language than is what is used here, tho.  the point remains something that is untargetable is untargetable. you cannot target that which you cannot target.  being able to target something which cannot be targeted defeats the purpose of that thing being untargetable.  if you were to have a passive effect on a shield, such as frost shield, which would remove immortal status from attackers, that would be more in line.  but that would be such a powerful effect (especially in an element which contains creature control/killing abilities) that it wouldnt be reasonable for it to do much other than that effect.

there are OP cards in the game, there are people making cases against them.  cards have been nerfed in the past.  this does not give reason to let future bad card concepts into the game

[TruePurple]

I would say that the immortal/immaterial status itself is OP,(and especially the ability to put it on any unit, over and over for a affordable price) there is only one way to kill em, the life poison shield (which takes time) and no way to deal with their immortal status.  Plus to counter that, one can destroy or steal the shield without much effort/cost. Yet the owner can target their own immortal creatures to trigger their abilities. Its even worse that immortal even protects the creature from field effects that don't specifically target them.

So if this spell had the ability to remove immortal status with enough saved death energy, I would say it would be just the minor nerf immaterial/immortal status needs, rather then being overpowered itself. (I would say it needs other nerfs too, like no card should be able to grant it as a ability, or at least not for anything less then a large amount of quantum[10? 20?])

Actually, the whole slay idea here was in part a inspiration along the way of thinking up ways of nerfing other OP stuff  like immortal status a bit.

 Remember, its either remove immortal status (if enough death saved up), OR do damage if no immortal status, and it being a single target spell and not a repeatable ability, this would be limited. (plus one can make a creature immortal again if striped of it but not killed)

[moomoose]

you seem to have alot of problems with the game of elements.  perhaps you should stop playing.

also, you are forgetting a few things, 1) fire shield and 2) damage from immaterial creatures can be blocked 3) using an ability is not the same as targeting, targeting occurs after an effect has been triggered (using an ability or casting a spell), not before.

[~Napalm]

Isn't Parasite/Virus/Aflotoxin enough CC?

[TruePurple]

Damage from immaterial creatures can be blocked in a limited way, like any other creature. But they can still use what ever ability without constraint. Also if a unit has no attack, then even those two shields won't matter.

Hell, one could use antimatter on a enemy vampiric creature without growth ability (or give it vamperic if its HP is high enough) then make immaterial and there isn't anything at all your foe could do about it (aside from chimera, which not everyone has in their deck, and the negative attack carries over and abilities are lost, and this spell, slay)

You could basically own the enemies creature, it could be doing boatloads of healing for you and damage to your enemy,  and it would be untouchable aside from one spell and totally unblockable. And it would be even more effective with more HP on the enemy creature because liquid shadows would allow it to last longer. One caveat would be if you can sacrifice immaterial units, which would make it slightly more touchable.(can you?)

You are targeting your creature to use its ability, aside from the semantics of that, a untouchable by enemy, creature (lets say opponent doesn't have the fire or poison shield) with a great repeatably usable ability contributes to the OP of immaterial. Especially as immaterial is trait grantable by ability an unlimited number of times for affordable quantum.

@Napalm What is CC short for?

[willng3]

Isn't Parasite/Virus/Aflotoxin enough CC?

Let us not forget Plague while we're at it .

CC= Creature Control

[TruePurple]

Are you forgetting those are all slow ways of killing creatures? Plus none of which can target immaterial. It doesn't matter how many ways death has to poison, its death, it should specialize in in causing death-  "CC".

As long as this spell is useful enough to be used, its alright if there are other options too, as long as their isn't a direct overlap, and there isn't. Those other spells have other stuff with them, reasons to use them instead depending on what your trying to do, and whether you specialize in death, or are rainbow.

[AeonSiege]

The antidote for a card, being the card itself makes the card more valuable, thus more powerful.  The more important and useful a card is for winning, whether to use on a opponent, or counter something a opponent does, or even more- both, the more POWERFUL it is. Useful and effective for winning = Powerful

WROOOOOONG. Valuable has never been synonym for powerful, and never will. Just because I can undo what the opponent has done with the same card doesn't mean it is more powerful. It is indeed more valuable than if negative attack couldn't be reversed, but only for counter reasons not for strategic reasons.

Creatures usually have a good ability, or lots of attack, not both.

On a creature with no ability Antimatter basically kills the creature for the opponent, and gives it to you. Its damage is subtracted from them, and given to you.(ok, healing, not damage, but it amounts to the same) Antimatter on a card with no ability is TWICE as effective as simply killing the creature would be. And on a purple nymph can be used over and over for a affordable price.

On a creature with no attack, or very little attack, but a good ability, antimatter wouldn't be very effective, but that is what lobotomizing is for. Lobotomize on these creatures effectively kills it, and there is no way to fix it, other then to sabotage your drawing by putting in back on your deck and respending all that energy again. Lobotomize is more effective then slay would be because lobotomize is cheaper, and a ability on a number of cards that can be used multiple times. Another solution to such cards is direct damage spells to simply kill them because such cards do not usually have much HP.

You are making my point just more clear. Slay/death would be a mix of antimatter + lobotomize, isn't that OP? If there is a card like Slay/death then why am I in other symbol than that of Slay/death? Useless creatures such as antimattered creatures, lobotomized creatures, or both could even be used for cremation, gravity pull, otyugh, scarab, mutation, butterfly effect, aflatoxin, reverse time, nightmare, fractal, and maybe for new developed cards. Also it would make chimera the worst card ever.

There is already-

Explosion: Destroy any permanent (this Slay card, except for the non creatures) for extremely cheap (1),

Steal: Which is an explosion that also boosts you- the antimatter of explosion.

Earthquake: that will destroy up to three pillers/pendulums (card kill that hits 3),

Poseidon: Earth quake that can be used over and over for cheap.

Dude this is totally acceptable. This has nothing to do with creatures. Almost every time creatures win games, not spells and permanent. You cannot win a game without damage or deck out. Sure this could prevent creatures, but so what? They don't take out creatures as easily as slay/death. Doesn't this makes the game more interesting?

@moomoose there is only 1 worst idea http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,12697.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,12697.0.html)

Edit: added more comment

[OldTrees]

  feeds and grows with each death. It should not get strong & fast creature control. That is why poison is the perfect creature control for .