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Offline moomooseTopic starter

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Re: Sage | Sage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=41293.msg511787#msg511787
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2012, 01:54:16 pm »
i went against the "smaller atk, smaller cost" paradigm because of fractal/mitosis and rolhope- i didnt want it to be fractaled/mitosised into something similar to rolhope.  higher cost, higher protection and slightly resistance to cc made sense.

if you want to try quint sages, youre welcome to try, but it has limitations.  upped quints are 3 :aether each, so youll need to use your mark and possibly a pend to get sufficient aether quick enough to make use of them, while still needing to come up with 8 water per sage.  playing a sage while waiting for quint to either pop into your hand or to get that quanta will make it open to: antimatter (not only negates the shield, but boosts your enemy creatures damage), reverse time (lose 8 quanta and 1 draw, especially bad while waiting for a quint), lobo, virtually any damaging spell or effect, PU (copying a rol in comparison would be laughable), and all of these would be more potent against sages than rols- with rols a single firebolt or rage potion would kill a whopping 1 rol for 1 damage reduction, 1 sage killed is several times more impactful on your shield.  shields such as thorns and fireshield will always be a great counter to sages.

a quint/sage deck is similar to a flying weapon deck, youll need 1 quint per sage for optimal results, and i think most of us at this point have tried a flying weapon deck in the past, and while effective, that 1 card for another 1 card typically doesnt come to fruition as often as we would like- and flying weapon even becomes essentially a mono, given the upped's 'other' cost.

sages are fragile, but not as fragile, as RoLs, they do however account for that by being more expensive and impacting you more when they are cc'd by any means, RT and antimatter especially.
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Offline esran

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Re: Sage | Sage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=41293.msg511803#msg511803
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2012, 03:20:15 pm »
i didnt say lower cost lower attack, i jsut said lower attack. i suppose you could keep the attack the same and raise cost. its just too OP at this quanta/DR ratio. esecially with snergies like bless or chaos power or SOP.

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Re: Sage | Sage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=41293.msg511814#msg511814
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2012, 03:49:56 pm »
Alright, so you're essentially paying for a 4 DR shield that be can killed by CC.

Using : Card Cost Theory - 1 DR = 4 :underworld , with -3 for a shield in a single slot only.

Assuming you don't consider anything else (Single Slot bonus doesn't apply since it stacks), this thing costs 16  :water assuming this was actually a shield. :o

Even if you decrease the DR : quanta ratio to 1 : 3 for CC vulnerability, it's still 12 :water . (I'm doubtful if CC is enough to lower the DR : Quanta ratio below that since you could always buff this card, play multiple copies, use AntiCC, etc... Basically, there are a lot more counters but there are also increased methods of protection.)

However if it doesn't stack with other Sages it'd probably cost 9 :water due to 'Single Slot' cost bonus for a shield applying (-3 :underworld ).

Conclusion : Stacking probably imbalances the card. (Seems comparable to other cards that don't stack on purpose like Eclipse) I recommend removing stacking and increasing cost by +1 :water . (Shield DR : Quanta ratio generally gets less quanta efficient as you stack more DR on 1 card, e.g. Tower Shield is 1 DR : 1  :rainbow but Diamond Shield has 3 DR : ~8  :underworld , roughly equivalent to 1 DR : 2.7 :underworld)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 03:53:25 pm by Zblader »

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Sage | Sage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=41293.msg511818#msg511818
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2012, 04:14:49 pm »
Blessing would add 3 attack, 3 DR and 1->4hp for 3 :light|1 :entropy + duo + 1 card.
I think Sage would be better if a fraction of its attack were used as DR.

I agree with the high DR / high cost method of balancing the stacking.

If 4 attack + X (+4DR[1hp]) = 8 :water + 1 card
+4DR[1hp] = 4 :water + 1 card
I think "+2DR[1hp] = 4 :water + 1 card" is more reasonable. (convenient for wording too)
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Offline Absol

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Re: Sage | Sage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=41293.msg511830#msg511830
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2012, 05:11:34 pm »
And the DR can be increased with buff. Most obvious is SoP.
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Offline esran

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Re: Sage | Sage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=41293.msg511831#msg511831
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2012, 05:13:16 pm »
yep, with SOP this is especially OP, especially since its water.

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Re: Sage | Sage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=41293.msg511832#msg511832
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2012, 05:14:08 pm »
Nice card babe. You tried to get the balance with power/cost. You did that. It's now completely balance and better than those girls !!

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Re: Sage | Sage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=41293.msg512176#msg512176
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2012, 06:53:48 pm »
Ill point out the obvious Fractal Mitosis thing

23*4==92

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Re: Sage | Sage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=41293.msg512178#msg512178
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2012, 06:58:37 pm »
Ill point out the obvious Fractal Mitosis thing

23*4==92
That is, without SoP.
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Re: Sage | Sage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=41293.msg512179#msg512179
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2012, 07:00:29 pm »
Ill point out the obvious Fractal Mitosis thing

23*4==92
That is, without SoP.

Rofl, SoP is making this even more OP, now not even a Steam Machine can get to hurt you!
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Sage | Sage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=41293.msg512222#msg512222
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2012, 09:19:50 pm »
Ill point out the obvious Fractal Mitosis thing

23*4==92
23*8 :water = 184 :water (Way over the win condition threshold)
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Offline moomooseTopic starter

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Re: Sage | Sage https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=41293.msg512224#msg512224
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2012, 09:21:28 pm »
OT got his post in before i did, so ill edit that part out.

and an adjustment that could be made to mitigate SoP would be to have the shielding be based on damage done each turn, rather than flat attack power.
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anything
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