Natural Selection | Evolution

[moomoose]

what are you talking about? mutation/improved mutation is an spell, this is copying mutation/improved mutation + all your creatures + a new skill each turn

[Pineapple]

1. Repeatable mutation has always been Life. See Druid.
2. This isn't mutation. The best part about mutation is changing the creature to a different creature with imbar stats. This doesn't do that.
3. This isn't mutation. Mutation gives them one skill that you can choose to keep or that you can replace by re-mutating the creature. This doesn't give you the option of keeping the good ones (aside from deja vu, lycanthropy, and the other one-time-use ones)

[moomoose]

1. Repeatable mutation has always been Life. See Druid.
Druid is a life creature with an ability.
2. This isn't mutation. The best part about mutation is changing the creature to a different creature with imbar stats. This doesn't do that.
Mutation makes things mutants.  variable stats or not, who gives a frak, its about the skills.
3. This isn't mutation. Mutation gives them one skill that you can choose to keep or that you can replace by re-mutating the creature. This doesn't give you the option of keeping the good ones (aside from deja vu, lycanthropy, and the other one-time-use ones)
Yeah, it's a continuous mutation, which has a wash of benefit/drawback keeping/not keeping bad abilities.
*edit- can you really call something a mutant if it doesn't mutate?  i would have inferred that the creatures would change/get random stats/skills after the initial cast.
4. This is an entropy card, not a life card.
I agree! the only thing about this card that is life is it's name, which is insufficient linkage.

[Pineapple]

...What?

1. Fallen Druid | Fallen Elf is an Entropy card with the ability "mutate." Its ability costs .

2. Again, if the skills are so important, then being able to keep them should be important, and therefore getting a new one every turn should be considered a mechanic that differs from just getting a random skill.

3. They don't mutate. They gain the passive skill "mutant." To "become mutants" has nothing to do with being mutated.

4. Because of (2) and (3), your links to Entropy are null.

[moomoose]

1. Fallen Druid | Fallen Elf is an Entropy card with the ability "mutate." Its ability costs .
whoops, mixed up the signs, but the point remains that entropy has to be involved in mutations.
2. Again, if the skills are so important, then being able to keep them should be important, and therefore getting a new one every turn should be considered a mechanic that differs from just getting a random skill.
its a wash. cant keep good ones, dont have to pay to remove bad ones
3. They don't mutate. They gain the passive skill "mutant." To "become mutants" has nothing to do with being mutated.
the word mutant requires mutation, if you dont have a mutation you are not a mutant.
4. Because of (2) and (3), your links to Entropy are null.
because entropy owns mutation, this card should not be life.

[Pineapple]

2. But gaining random abilities is not what makes a mutant a mutant. As you said so yourself, "if you don't have a mutation you are not a mutant," while you acknowledged that the random abilities were part of the card but tried to argue that every creature would be mutated when this card is cast. As only random skills are not enough to connect this card to Mutation, this card is not some sort of derivative of Mutation.

3. It gives the passive ability "mutant." If you're really that annoyed by this little thematic aspect, imagine a benign mutation or something that goes into effect with Parallel Universe and "deja vu."

4. The mechanic outlined by the card text and the notes are different from the Mutation mechanic. That is the argument, supported by (2) and (3). In other words, I argue that since the connection to Mutation is null, this card's connection to Entropy is null.

[moomoose]

im at work i cant keep replying in length- this card is an entropy card, thinking otherwise is wrong.  mutants come from mutation, mutation is an entropy effect, this is an entropy card.  this shouldnt be this complicated.

[Pineapple]

The theme of this card isn't entropic at all. The mechanic, however you try to link it to entropy, is only a vehicle used to drive the theme.

[Sevs]

Should we really be bickering over what element it belongs too. I think the main thing this discussion should be about would be the actual effect of the card on the game.

I like the idea of it and i believe something like this has been brought up before. i just guess it hasn't materialized into a card yet. I do believe that this will completely overshadow the normal mutation card though.

Does Pandemonium overshadow Chaos Seed?

I do believe that these are different cases. Pandemonium affects both sides of the field. The only reason chaos seed is used is because of quanta limitations or having to keep in the unupped realm

[OldTrees]

Would this work better as a permanent (Environment) with slower ability turnover (Gradual Evolution)?

I feel the current mechanic is too entropic. A slower less dramatic yet sustained effect might fit Evolution and Life better.

[Brontos]

I would call the card "forced evolution" because it's all but natural. :p

[Xenocidius]

Would this work better as a permanent (Environment) with slower ability turnover (Gradual Evolution)?

Maybe, but I tend to dislike field permanents that are only useful with one in play (like Nightfall and Flooding). Plus, this could lead to destroy-the-permanent-when-you-get-a-mutant-with-steal-or-destroy exploits.

I feel the current mechanic is too entropic. A slower less dramatic yet sustained effect might fit Evolution and Life better.

The mechanic is certainly entropic, but from an evolutionary perspective the mutation idea makes sense (obviously apart from the speed). The theme is completely Life.