Invisible Stalker | Invisible Stalker (upgraded)

[Midnar]

The Communal Card Creation team congratulates Invisible Stalker | Invisible Stalker (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21399.msg292362.html) on winning the CCC's "Vanilla/Semi Vanilla" competition. It is a quality example of potential Semivanilla card. We feel that this card would be an improvement to Elements the Game. If you liked this card you may like the other winners Garden Spider | Garden Recluse (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21189.0.html), Lizardman | Lizardman (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21211.0.html) and Paper Crane | Noshi Crane (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21280.msg290501.html) as well.

NAME: Invisible Stalker ELEMENT: Air COST: 3 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 3|1 TEXT: Invisibility: Your opponent can not see the Invisible Stalker.	NAME: Invisible Stalker ELEMENT: Air COST: 3 TYPE: Creature ATK|HP: 6|1 TEXT: Invisibility: Your opponent can not see the Invisible Stalker.

ART: Nobody IDEA: Midnar Based on the creature of the same name from D&D: Invisible Stalker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_stalker) NOTES: This is the same invisibility as the one granted by Cloak. It won't time out, but may be removed by Pandemonium, Fire Storm and Thunderstorm. Passive skill: Airborne. SERIES:

Hi there !
This is my first post here. Hope you like my card  It extends the concept of invisibility, as introduced by cloak.
There's no image; that's obviously because the creature is invisible

I felt like there's not enough Air creatures. Dragonflies and Azure Dragons are vanilla ; Fireflies are almost never played directly, but rather generated by a Firefly Queen. Which only leaves 2 creatures : FFQ and Wyrm. Here's a third one, which is quite representative of the elusive nature of Air imo.

A few words about balance: just compare this to Flesh Spider | Flesh recluse. This card has the same cost and the same attack (both for unupped and upped version). 1hp + Invisibility is a bit better than 3hp, but Flesh Spider has Web.

Please share your thoughts about this card ! 

[OldTrees]

Although Invisible Stalker is an Air Elemental in D&D, does it really fit the Air element in ETG?

You used a good method for determining the balance of this card. (I personally disagree with the upgraded spider's balance but the unupped fits)
It is creative (although done before)
It is simple (common newb problem is overly complex cards)
It follows the format (note: some people do not read the READ THIS thread )
The note section is well thought out and covers all the questions I might ask

In short Welcome to the CIA forum section and congrats on a good first card.

[icecoldbro]

Im guessing its Airborne right? (All other Air creatures all, so I will assume it)
You said you based your quanta costs on Flesh Spider and Flesh Recluse respectively, I constructively disagree with this, as Its cost should be increased by one. (At least for upgraded version).
Let's compare:(Uped version as unuped version I have less of a problem with it)

Flesh Recluse	Invisible Stalker
3 Quanta	3 Quanta
6 Attack	6 Attack
3 Health	1 Health
Web: Make target creature non airborne.	Invisibility: This creature cannot be touched by any Normal Creature Control (one target).

Thanks to its ability, which has no upkeep, is free to start with and I'm guessing comes with it in play, the lower health difference is evened out easily, making it more cost effective, also Web ability is very specific and not useful outside a Wings deck.
This card's ability, Invisibility is usable against any opponent, and is usable in any deck, therefore making it a little too powerful.
I recommend that you increase playing cost by 1, or it too have an ability cost of 2 (Or 1 ), too make it a little more balanced.
A very nice first attempt, heck its better than anything Ive ever made truthfully, just that little detail and I think its perfectly balanced, a great first try, hopefully Ill see more of your ideas, soon.

[Midnar]

@OldTrees: As I said in the initial post, I think that the Invisible Stalker fits Air well because of invisibility. I can't see another element more appropriate for an invisible creature. Well, of course there's Darkness, but instinctively I would rather link Darkness to Spells/Permanents making things invisible.
And thanks

@icecoldbro: You just forgot something: Air creatures are naturally better than darkness creatures (just look at Skeleton and Dragonfly).
Having an ability cost is out of question: Invisible Stalkers are invisible and that's it. No need to pay for it.
I would not like to increase the cost. If something has to be done, I'll just get the attack down to 5.

[Stickmasterluke]

"Stealth Stalker" Just throwing this name out there. Maybe it could be the name of one of the versions of the card.

[OldTrees]

The Communal Card Creation team congratulates Invisible Stalker | Invisible Stalker (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21399.msg292362.html) on winning the CCC's "Vanilla/Semi Vanilla" competition. It is a quality example of potential Semivanilla card. We feel that this card would be an improvement to Elements the Game. If you liked this card you may like the other winners Garden Spider | Garden Recluse (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21189.0.html), Lizardman | Lizardman (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21211.0.html) and Paper Crane | Noshi Crane (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21280.msg290501.html) as well.

You will want to add this quote to the opening post.

[icecoldbro]

@icecoldbro: You just forgot something: Air creatures are naturally better than darkness creatures (just look at Skeleton and Dragonfly).
Having an ability cost is out of question: Invisible Stalkers are invisible and that's it. No need to pay for it.
I would not like to increase the cost. If something has to be done, I'll just get the attack down to 5.

I mentioned a creature?, not darkness.
Yup a damage nerf would make it perfectly balanced, just like a Gumpert (German Supercar, fyi).

[Nepycros]

@icecoldbro: You just forgot something: Air creatures are naturally better than darkness creatures.

Consider me irked. Until Midnar admits that something shouldn't be invisible without using either Darkness or Fog, I won't support this card.

[ZephyrPhantom]

@icecoldbro: You just forgot something: Air creatures are naturally better than darkness creatures.

Consider me irked. Until Midnar admits that something shouldn't be invisible without using either Darkness or Fog, I won't support this card.

@Midnar
Erm, no offense meant, but you can't say any one element is better than the other metagame-wise.  Think you can beat me with Chaos Power'd Wyrms? Fine, fear my Pestal, where you can't even get 1 .

*snip*

As I said in the initial post, I think that the Invisible Stalker fits Air well because of invisibility. I can't see another element more appropriate for an invisible creature. Well, of course there's Darkness, but instinctively I would rather link Darkness to Spells/Permanents making things invisible. It does fit thematically, but this technically isn't the right reason. It should be that Air creatures can manipulate Air to make their opponents not see them similar to how Darkness uses shadows to cloak the field.

*snip*
You just forgot something: Air creatures are naturally better than darkness creatures (just look at Skeleton and Dragonfly).  Skeleton is . Nice try.

The balancing has already been done for this card, as shown by the CCC approval.

[OldTrees]

CCC approval measures potential and quality of the idea not balance.
The CCC approval means that this card is worth extra effort and attention because it has greater potential.

I personally think that this card still needs some cost and stat fine tuning but the idea of invisibility is a good idea for a semivanilla card.

@Nepycros
Did you mean Fog the card or Fog the concealing mist?

[Nepycros]

@Nepycros
Did you mean Fog the card or Fog the concealing mist?

Considering Fog Shield is a characteristic of concealing, fog itself is a decent property for Invisibility. I believe an upkeep is needed. After all, whatever you're doing to stay invisible, you probably need quite a bit of it.

[ZephyrPhantom]

Here's some art. If you want you can use it.