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Falcon4415

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Re: Dirk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17682.msg227449#msg227449
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2010, 06:15:10 pm »
Are you kidding me? This is the best PvP weapon. Seriously, who here has ever stolen/destroyed one of these? It is the single and only permanent that does not need a PA to make it unkillable, because nobody will --ever-- target it.

Offline Ryli

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Re: Dirk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17682.msg227460#msg227460
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2010, 06:20:08 pm »
Seriously, who here has ever stolen/destroyed one of these?
*Raises hand*

I've had several games where my explosion or steals hits either 1 from a stackfull of towers, or 1 of these. If there are many towers then stealing/destroying the dirk would hit them harder.

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Re: Dirk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17682.msg227582#msg227582
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2010, 08:40:22 pm »
Are you kidding me? This is the best PvP weapon. Seriously, who here has ever stolen/destroyed one of these? It is the single and only permanent that does not need a PA to make it unkillable, because nobody will --ever-- target it.
Actually the AI will.  And the un-upgraded version can be abused in this way.  Having Decay steal Daggers over his Electrocutors can be quite helpful.

zse

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Re: Dirk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17682.msg227687#msg227687
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2010, 10:47:01 pm »
Dagger was just meant to be a cheap weapon for newer players to stick in their weapon slots, regardless of elements used.
If people chose to upgrade it, that's their choice (they do see some use now), but it's primary use was as a filler for new players until they earned their rare weapon.
This is just a plain weapon. It's cheap, it's for new players, and also it has low stealability. I would never use it now, but that doesn't mean it is bad. You could even use it as a decoy. Advanced players have all kinds of rare weapons to choose from. They will never go with this. The parrying function is great, however i think that would make it one of the most used weapons in game, so, no.
This topic is for Dirk, the upped form of Dagger, not Dagger! Dagger itself is great for what it is, no need to change anything on it. I'm just having hard time seeing how card that costs 1524 :electrum needs to be in this game, while it's simply inferior to a card that costs only 1 :electrum more (Long Sword).
I actually think the idea to make Dirk a Parrying Dagger instead is a pretty neat idea. I don't think it would be balanced as a free weapon, but if the upped version was just the parry effect with the base Dagger attack (2), then I could see a cost of 1-2 random quanta. Dagger should not receive any change, because it comes with every starter deck.
Yes, I didn't think that those abilities could be used in 0-cost cards, but the cost thing is another issue than just trying to brainstorm for new ways to enhance this unused card.

That being said, I think proper cost for that damage-prevention/dealing -card could be even a bit higher than that 1-2 random quanta you suggested. I'd say 3 random, same as Shards.

Falcon4415

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Re: Dirk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17682.msg227698#msg227698
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2010, 11:01:08 pm »
Actually the AI will.  And the un-upgraded version can be abused in this way.  Having Decay steal Daggers over his Electrocutors can be quite helpful.
Hence the specifical reference to PvP matches. AI is plain stupid.
EDIT: It may not have been too clear. My bad.

*Raises hand*

I've had several games where my explosion or steals hits either 1 from a stackfull of towers, or 1 of these. If there are many towers then stealing/destroying the dirk would hit them harder.
You are but the exception to the rule, you do realize there are really few people who play like that don't you?

Back to the OT, I don't consider the change really necessary, but IF the weapon has to acquire a new ability I'd rather see it getting a weak ability (like abilities 1&2) rather than an ability like the 3) Parrying Dagger. A full 1 dmg reduction in addition to the shield could make it seriously OP in combination with the most powerful shields in the game (arguably, Permafrost, Jade and Diamond), seeing as it is Other and thus can be played by any element.

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Re: Dirk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17682.msg227729#msg227729
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2010, 11:30:33 pm »
This topic is for Dirk, the upped form of Dagger, not Dagger! Dagger itself is great for what it is, no need to change anything on it. I'm just having hard time seeing how card that costs 1524 :electrum needs to be in this game, while it's simply inferior to a card that costs only 1 :electrum more (Long Sword).
Huh, please clarify it in the OP, since I didn't realised that  :-[

Truely it needs something, like a "vanilla effect", but not stackable, or flying dirks would be a pain :(

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Re: Dirk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17682.msg227872#msg227872
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2010, 02:31:38 am »
Hm. A parrying dagger would be a nice idea, as long as it also went to the unupped as well.

I don't care much for the second idea, but the other two would be nice buffs :)
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Re: Dirk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17682.msg228202#msg228202
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2010, 01:02:57 pm »
I like the idea behind #3 could you add a poll so people could vote for the ideas of for no buff.
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Re: Dirk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17682.msg228237#msg228237
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2010, 01:44:38 pm »
True, there is not much difference between the dagger and the sword. I guess it's just a little extra choice if you really don't want to put in the quanta. Every card just has an upgraded version. It wouldnt make sense if it was impossible to up the dagger, but it is still a beginners weapon so not many would do it. I don't think a beginner's weapon should upgrade into a strong weapon though. That's really odd.
Shards aren't overpowered, as long as you have them yourself.

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Re: Dirk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17682.msg228273#msg228273
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2010, 02:52:23 pm »
I like the idea behind #3 could you add a poll so people could vote for the ideas of for no buff.
I'll add poll when there are couple more ideas. Just keep making em!
...
Every card just has an upgraded version. It wouldnt make sense if it was impossible to up the dagger, but it is still a beginners weapon so not many would do it. I don't think a beginner's weapon should upgrade into a strong weapon though. That's really odd.
There are already cards that "can't be upgraded" - Toadfish, Chaos Seed, Nova. And then there are Shards that can only be used in upped form. So even if it would feel really odd, it wouldn't be completely ground-breaking.

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Re: Dirk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17682.msg228295#msg228295
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2010, 03:11:46 pm »
That is odd.. The Pufferfish is a way different card. Also chaos power and supernova are better. Shards have a way different function. Not for the beginner.
Shards aren't overpowered, as long as you have them yourself.

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Re: Dirk https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17682.msg228489#msg228489
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2010, 07:02:03 pm »
That is odd.. The Pufferfish is a way different card. Also chaos power and supernova are better. Shards have a way different function. Not for the beginner.
Supernova needs 2 :entropy to activate, and nova doesn't, so the better-worse relation is situational...

I say that the upped version of a noob weapon stops being a noob weapon (since it's upped), so it would need at least a minor buff

 

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