Endless Army | Endless Army

[TheManuz]

NAME: Endless Army ELEMENT: Death COST: 2 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: Destroyed creatures go to the bottom of their owner's deck.	NAME: Endless Army ELEMENT: Death COST: 3 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: Destroyed creatures you control go to the bottom of your deck.

ART: TheManuz Skull source: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Skullfront.png BG made with FlamePainter: http://www.escapemotions.com/experiments/flame/ IDEA: TheManuz NOTES: This is a split/rework from Aspect of Infinity (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25142.msg344375#msg344375). This is meant to avoid deckout while recycling creatures. The unupped version works for both players, but costs less. The upped version is only for the player, but costs more. SERIES:

[UTAlan]

Upped version - enemy creatures who die go to the bottom of my deck, too?

[TheManuz]

Upped version - enemy creatures who die go to the bottom of my deck, too?

Only creatures you control. If, for example, you used a Parallel Universe, that would go on the bottom of your deck.
An alternative text could be "Destroyed creatures on your field go to the bottom of your deck".

[UTAlan]

Ah, not sure how I missed the "you control." That text should be clear enough. Nice card idea.

[furballdn]

Very interesting idea! I like it. Although, does this mean that you'll have lots of cats in your deck after you activate the skill too much?

[Rutarete]

It might just be me, but i think the upped cost should be 4 , for I think that it only working for the user if worth more.

[TheManuz]

Very interesting idea! I like it. Although, does this mean that you'll have lots of cats in your deck after you activate the skill too much?

I only thought of effective deaths.
I used "destroyed creatures" in the card wording instead of "death effect" because i didn't want to consider death effects, but only effective creature destruction.
Otherwise i think it would make things much more complicated... try to think to a permanent that triggers death effects (like Spite (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,26223.0.html), in forge at the moment), they should add a copy of a permanent on the bottom of the deck? Or what?
A death effect isn't always bound to a creature.
I believe it's simpler to understand and to code if it would only recycle creatures that effectively were destroyed from the game field.

It might just be me, but i think the upped cost should be 4 , for I think that it only working for the user if worth more.

Sincerely, i think that 4 is too much, considering that it vulnerable to PC, it needs creatures to work, and is an upped card.
Even if played with Fractal+Ball Lightnings, you still draw one card per turn. You have to draw additional cards to deal serious damage.
On the anti-deckout side, you still need a creature to kill each turn to achieve an endless deck. Sure, there is Virus for that, but you will need 2 of them because of summoning sickness.
However, i'd like to hear more feedback on this card cost, and i'm open to change idea if other people think the upped should cost 4 .

I'll summon OldTrees! 

[Rutarete]

You have to draw additional cards to deal serious damage.

Don't forget mitosis and FFQ

[TheManuz]

You have to draw additional cards to deal serious damage.

Don't forget mitosis and FFQ

Sure, but those cards will deal heavy damage on its own, not because of this card. Then they will go on the bottom, and you will draw 1 of them per turn, and drawing a creature per turn doesn't seem OP.

[Nepycros]

Wasn't this tried and rejected at least twice? This promotes rushes that use BL, because you can endlessly churn out those things.

[OldTrees]

This card needs a berf. It cannot be balanced in its current form.

[Xenocidius]

Wow. I love this card. The concept, anyway; it fits perfectly with the Death theme and is simply genius.

OldTrees brings up a good point though.

May i ask you what do you think of Endless Army (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33241.0.html) cost?
I'd also like a general feedback on the mechanic, if you don't mind.
Thanks in advance!

The primary use of Endless Army and its predecessors Aspect of infinity and even further back Time Portal | Portal of Eternity was to prevent deckout by recycling dying creatures. The only other card that prevents deckout is Eternity.

Endless Army vs Eternity
Both combos require 2 cards. Both combos are vulnerable to PC and Silence. Both have an ~4 attack between the two cards used in the combo.
Eternity gets to use its attack when played while Endless Army has to wait till near deckout to use its effective attack from Spark|Ball Lightning.
Eternity is a weapon and thus blocks the weapon slot.
Reverse Time is useful for more than just antideckout but not at the same time.
Endless Army has much better synergy with Hourglass
The Eternity costs 6 |5 + 3 per turn + 2 cards

So until your deck runs out Endless Army is almost useless. Once your deck runs out Endless Army is significantly cheaper than the alternative. I do not think it has a theoretical balanced cost in this form.

How about it goes to the top of your deck instead? That would make it more useful while still preventing deckout.