BH/Discord Decks for AI3 EM's - Stats & Discussion

[kirchj33]

Intro

Awhile back, jmdt and I posted a series of BH/Discord decks for AI3 claiming how great they were etc.  The decks didn't really catch on due to a number of reasons:

1.  Lack of testing, there were no real stats to backup the great results we were claiming
2.  The decks were not heavily promoted due to jmdt's busy-ness and my lack of notoriety.
3.  The decks did not include the strongest variant in the series until my extensive testing and posting as of today.

-jmdt previously mentioned that OGEM would revolutionize the AI3 EM metagame, and I feel the BH/Discord mechanic itself should.

Why You Should Care

These series of decks have the potential to perform AT EQUAL EFFICIENCY (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21923.msg300098#msg300098) with USEM!  If you are skeptical try and test them yourself.

Why Do They Work?

1.  Shutdown of discord and blackhole gives an additional component of stopping AI3's stall/CC mechanics, which have become increasingly aggressive over time.
2.  The decks stall while launching creatures that can go unhindered by CC, giving a simultaneous stall/rush effect.
3.   All decks in AI3 except one are Duos and Trios meaning discord is strong.  Couple that with the fact that unupped quanta gain is more easily inhibited by discord.  The black holes should help deal with the rainbow deck without the partnership of discord.
4.  There is a hidden component to the efficiency of these decks.  There are many turns where the AI doesn't play, and many games where the AI doesn't play at all.  This gives the decks speed, which over the course of time, allows for efficient results even if tied in with slightly higher TTWs than some of the quicker decks.
5.  The decks require practice to produce ultimate results.  Knowing the best time to play Black holes, evolve grabbies, play lava destroyers will lead to 10-15% higher EM rates.  This will come with time.  I have played thousands of BH/Discord games at this point and the challenge and variety should give veteran AI3 farmers a solid alternative over USEM.

Decks & Analysis

I have included several decks and variants in different amounts of total games played.  The more promising the results, the more games played until reaching a total of 200.  There are several variants that were tested but not posted for cleanliness.

TADA Blue (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,22147.msg302391#msg302391)

Code: [Select]

6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u5 6u5 6u5 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 713 74f 74f 77g 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ds 7gm 7gm 7gm 7gm 7gm 7jr 80gAnalysis: This deck is one of the strongest of the groups, it will give a decent mix of speed and EM rate.  I believe it ultimately falls short of USEM/TADAbow because of the limitations of the PSN mechanic.

OGEM (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,22147.msg302391#msg302391)

Code: [Select]

5oi 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u5 6u5 6u5 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 713 74f 74f 7ai 7ai 7ai 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7gm 7jr 7qb 7qb 80gAnalysis: This deck is particularly quick when it works.  The destroyers are a bit too weak against CC to stand alone as the main damage dealer vs. AI3 and their HP + the PSN mechanic are the deck's biggest weakness.

O'EM'G (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,22402.msg303824#msg303824)

Code: [Select]

6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u5 6u5 6u5 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 74f 74f 77a 77a 77a 77g 77g 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ds 7gm 7jr 7te 80gAnalysis: This deck shows promise and integrates a new concept: Liquid Shadow for additional healing.  Early graboids have problems launching before SN.  The deck is a bit weak as posted, but I believe further testing with -2 Graboids +2 Steel Golems is worth exploring.  The comparison then becomes similar to TADA Blue, measuring the loss of punch of a graboid & Animate Weapon vs. the additional healing of liquid shadow.

TADA (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21706.msg297679#msg297679)

Code: [Select]

6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u5 6u5 6u5 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 713 745 745 745 74f 74f 74f 77g 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ds 7gm 7jr 80gAnalysis: My original entry into the genre, which has a few problems with quanta distribution, although it has the advantage of 3 black holes which I feel is necessary for elevating these decks to the next level.  Additional testing could prove worthwhile to solve some of these problems with -1 Charger +1 AW.  Ultimately the clunkiness of the PSN may be the limiting factor here.

TADAbow (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,22402.msg303824#msg303824)

Code: [Select]

6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u5 6u5 6u5 713 74f 74f 74f 77g 77g 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7dq 7gm 7gm 7jr 7tf 80gAnalysis: This is the best of the bunch here.  The deck offers a solid alternative to USEM for score gain without fear of losing any efficiency once mastered.  The quantum tower mechanic helps build quanta for quick launch of creatures while playing a discord in coordination with the mark for stall.  A precog version is noted on the OP for familiarizing one's self with the genre's mechanic.

Disc' EM (DEM) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23307.msg316979#msg316979)

Code: [Select]

4ve 4ve 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6ts 6tv 6u1 6u1 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u5 6u5 6u5 713 74f 74f 77g 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ds 7gm 7jr 80gAnalysis: The deck improves on many things from some of the competitors, mainly, it's ability to quickly place a discord on the field.  It may be neck-and-neck with the TADAbow in terms of efficiency and ultimately its biggest downfall is entropy's inability to offer any standout AI3 rush creatures.

Stats/Results

Table comparing the aforementioned decks with USEM:

Deck	Games	TSE (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21923.msg300098#msg300098)	Avg. TTW	Avg. Sec./Game	Wins	Losses	EMs	Win %	EM %
TADAbow	200	1387.192	7.6294	72.67	197	3	169	98.5	84.5
USEM	200	1386.2083	7.0778	66.625	193	7	151	96.5	75.5
Disc' EM (DEM)	200	1386.09	7.62245	68.93	196	4	151	98	75.5
TADA Blue	200	1318.9958	7.5619	70.495	194	6	144	97	72
TADAbow (precog)	200	1305.121	7.4467	74.675	197	3	155	98.5	77.5
OGEM	50	1201.461	7.1915	73.16	47	3	33	94	66
TADA	100	1200.431	7.9167	74.61	96	4	68	96	68
O'EM'G	100	1195.413	7.5556	74.72	99	1	64	99	64

Conclusion

I urge everyone to try these decks because as you can see, even the weakest of the genre proves to be a very strong deck when comparing results to those of the AI3 EM True Efficiency Study ver. 2.0 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21923.msg300098#msg300098) decks.  The difference in the top decks and the bottom is a hardly noticible ~200 score/hr. so I suggest finding a deck that best suites your frustrations when farming AI3 and going with that one.  Whether you would like to stick with USEM or try a new challenge/option, I want the community to know there are new & exciting options available!

[jmdt]

Very nice work here.

[kirchj33]

Very nice work here.

Ty sir.  Same to you.

I appreciate all your help, thoughts, and insight you have given along the way.

[kev]

This is a really impressive body of work, kirch.  You probably should've waited another day to post it because as is you're in danger of some Master happening upon it and bidding you up. 

I just tried O'EM'G, -3 steel golems, +3 grabby and went 5-0, all EMs.  I might also consider -1 LS, -1 Peggy, +1 Archangel, +1 Elite Wyrm.  Dunno.  Maybe the extra cost is too much risk.

It has been kinda interesting watching the evolution.  Terro's speed rainbow --> jmdt introduces Entropy Pendulums --> Heals and Stilettos make an appearance in the EM revolution --> maybe D/BHbows???

[kirchj33]

I just tried O'EM'G, -3 steel golems, +3 grabby and went 5-0, all EMs.  I might also consider -1 LS, -1 Peggy, +1 Archangel, +1 Elite Wyrm.  Dunno.  Maybe the extra cost is too much risk.

I tested this variant, as I believe Willin3 did as well.  It can be a monster and really tear through things, but overall lacks the stability to be a reliable farming deck.  The reasons are twofold:

1.  Grabbies require time to launch, thus the presence of a SN.  There are games which this will simply not happen.  Steel Golems + Discord alone are enough to push you to a win if no SN comes.

2.  6 hp seems to be the threshold in AI3 that you want to aim for with your main damage dealer.  CC will quickly wipe out your early creatures with 4 or less hp.

Now that I am a couple thousand more games experienced with BH/Discord, efficiency with such a deck may be more of an issue of intelligently launching your grabbies after a BH or Discord to avoid CC.  This variant may be worth a second look with an extensive study, but I would tend to think it has some limitations.

Edit:

I feel, after much testing, that a PSNbow will never quite reach the levels of USEM because of its mechanic.  TADA Blue is as close as it gets, although O'EM'G certainly has room for a little improvement.  For some other great non-BH/Discord PSN's I would recommend the well known SCEM (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,18665.0.html) and GAEMs (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21620.0.html).  Both are included in the Efficiency Study (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21620.0.html).

[teffy]

Nice work.
Text looks good
Good content I didn´t know
+1 Karma

[TheIdioticIdiot]

EDIT: forget what I said before, this post is purely a compliment now...
+karma

[willng3]

woah, real nice work here
however, I feel that BH/discord EM decks weren't popularized because ppl don't rly care too much about EM decks too much these days

Nowadays, ppl don't really care too much about their score, which made EM decks' popularity decrease

Which is unfortunate because with T500 approaching score will actually be more important than ever, making these types of studies all the more useful.

EDIT:  Epic 1800th post.

[TheIdioticIdiot]

woah, real nice work here
however, I feel that BH/discord EM decks weren't popularized because ppl don't rly care too much about EM decks too much these days

Nowadays, ppl don't really care too much about their score, which made EM decks' popularity decrease

Which is unfortunate because with T500 approaching score will actually be more important than ever, making these types of studies all the more useful.

EDIT:  Epic 1800th post.

T500 decks score is separate from your personal score the last time I checked

[Sir Valimont]

Wow, I am impressed. And I am not easily impressed ... this is extremely well put-together.

[willng3]

woah, real nice work here
however, I feel that BH/discord EM decks weren't popularized because ppl don't rly care too much about EM decks too much these days

Nowadays, ppl don't really care too much about their score, which made EM decks' popularity decrease

Which is unfortunate because with T500 approaching score will actually be more important than ever, making these types of studies all the more useful.

EDIT:  Epic 1800th post.

T500 decks score is separate from your personal score the last time I checked

[21:29:00] zanzarino: I decided to turn it into a tiered asynch pvp
[21:29:08] zanzarino: With 4 leagues
[21:30:22] zanzarino: The 4 leagues are separated by level (bronze, silver, gold, platinum league or some other names)
[21:30:34] zanzarino: Your level is determined by your score
[21:30:44] zanzarino: Otherwise the score would be now useless

[TheIdioticIdiot]

woah, real nice work here
however, I feel that BH/discord EM decks weren't popularized because ppl don't rly care too much about EM decks too much these days

Nowadays, ppl don't really care too much about their score, which made EM decks' popularity decrease

Which is unfortunate because with T500 approaching score will actually be more important than ever, making these types of studies all the more useful.

EDIT:  Epic 1800th post.

T500 decks score is separate from your personal score the last time I checked

[21:29:00] zanzarino: I decided to turn it into a tiered asynch pvp
[21:29:08] zanzarino: With 4 leagues
[21:30:22] zanzarino: The 4 leagues are separated by level (bronze, silver, gold, platinum league or some other names)
[21:30:34] zanzarino: Your level is determined by your score
[21:30:44] zanzarino: Otherwise the score would be now useless

I was only gone for ONE DAY
and look at the big news I missed...
editing my original post