Deckbuilding

[Korugar]

I have another suggestion on how to include the mark. We could have marks as Tier 1 skills.

Check out the skill trees here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17109.0.html

See that middle skill on Tier 1? That could be a mark of that element. Everyone would start the game with a skill (mark of their element), and could later take other skills like other marks.

For example when I reach level 2, I have the option to take a 2nd mark. If I don't want one, I can take something else.

It would basically be the same as the previous "marks with levels" idea, but now players would have a choice, and we wouldn't be forcing them to take different marks.

This is a great idea!

When you say "...and could later take other skills like other marks." do you mean that we can also take skills from other elements skill trees? If so, I think it's a good idea, but I think we should make skills from other elements cost two skill points, just so it's easier for a person to increase their prowess within their own element. Also, perhaps, the mark could be like the "tier zero" skill(you have to get the mark of an element before getting any of their skills).

[Scaredgirl]

I have another suggestion on how to include the mark. We could have marks as Tier 1 skills.

Check out the skill trees here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17109.0.html

See that middle skill on Tier 1? That could be a mark of that element. Everyone would start the game with a skill (mark of their element), and could later take other skills like other marks.

For example when I reach level 2, I have the option to take a 2nd mark. If I don't want one, I can take something else.

It would basically be the same as the previous "marks with levels" idea, but now players would have a choice, and we wouldn't be forcing them to take different marks.

This is a great idea!

When you say "...and could later take other skills like other marks." do you mean that we can also take skills from other elements skill trees? If so, I think it's a good idea, but I think we should make skills from other elements cost two skill points, just so it's easier for a person to increase their prowess within their own element. Also, perhaps, the mark could be like the "tier zero" skill(you have to get the mark of an element before getting any of their skills).

Yes, players can take skills from all skill trees.

The reason why taking skills from multiple trees is not a big deal, is that skills become much more powerful the further you advance on that particular tree. This means that if I take skills from all 13 skill trees, I will never gain access to the most powerful ones on the later tiers.

So basically it's a choice between..

A) well-rounded but weak
B) one-dimensional but strong

Forcing players to start with Mark card is one option, but I see no reason to force them to do that.

[Glitch]

Well, I've always thought a players "mark" represented what kind of elemental they truly were.  A golem deck with earth mark is a fire deck, sure, but it's being used by an earth elemental.

I guess I'm just confused how similar to the war this is supposed to be.  We could have this be more of an extension of the war, with vaults and deck restrictions being the exact same.

Or we could have them be completely different things.  Two completely independent events with their own set of rules, and it'd be nice to consider both...

[Scaredgirl]

Well, I've always thought a players "mark" represented what kind of elemental they truly were.  A golem deck with earth mark is a fire deck, sure, but it's being used by an earth elemental.

I agree that using the same mark definitely makes more sense when we are talking about the theme. However forcing players to use the same mark would make deckbuilding really boring, so I think we need to compromise.

I guess I'm just confused how similar to the war this is supposed to be.  We could have this be more of an extension of the war, with vaults and deck restrictions being the exact same.

Or we could have them be completely different things.  Two completely independent events with their own set of rules, and it'd be nice to consider both...

Idea is that this would be completely separate from War. War is more about teams, and things being balanced and fair. WoE is mostly about individual questing, slow paced exploration, and things being non-symmetrical (like in real world).You know, MMORPG style.

[Destiny]

Well, I've always thought a players "mark" represented what kind of elemental they truly were.  A golem deck with earth mark is a fire deck, sure, but it's being used by an earth elemental.

I guess I'm just confused how similar to the war this is supposed to be.  We could have this be more of an extension of the war, with vaults and deck restrictions being the exact same.

Or we could have them be completely different things.  Two completely independent events with their own set of rules, and it'd be nice to consider both...

Personally, I think that we should have some other big event besides war. This would be perfect. I would like them to be very much different.


P.S. Anyone notice the new icon?

[Korugar]

Forcing players to start with Mark card is one option, but I see no reason to force them to do that.

Well, it just makes sense to me. Think about a generic MMORPG for just a second. You can't use a certain skill class, until you've unlocked/bought that class. You can use sword moves until you have a sword. That kind of thing. That said, you've probably played more games than I, and you get the final say anyway

[Kael Hate]

I suggest we use Zanz original definition of the player and define them by their mark.

Thus your Starting deck is a bunch of your elements cards and every deck you use has to use the mark of your allegience. Everything else can be customised on what you aquire via salvage and trade. Also means the only dek checking that has to occur is the Mark when you Play.

Unaligned / Underworld Players starting deck is a rainbow type and they may use any mark. An underworld / unaligned player has the disadvantage tho that they do not make income from their faction.


Example:

Black Mantra is a Darkness Elemental, He has the darkness Mark, His deck may include any cards in his posession but the mark is darkness.

[Scaredgirl]

Forcing players to start with Mark card is one option, but I see no reason to force them to do that.

Well, it just makes sense to me. Think about a generic MMORPG for just a second. You can't use a certain skill class, until you've unlocked/bought that class. You can use sword moves until you have a sword. That kind of thing. That said, you've probably played more games than I, and you get the final say anyway

Yes, that makes perfect sense actually. We'll probably go with that.

I suggest we use Zanz original definition of the player and define them by their mark.

Thus your Starting deck is a bunch of your elements cards and every deck you use has to use the mark of your allegience. Everything else can be customised on what you aquire via salvage and trade. Also means the only dek checking that has to occur is the Mark when you Play.

Unaligned / Underworld Players starting deck is a rainbow type and they may use any mark. An underworld / unaligned player has the disadvantage tho that they do not make income from their faction.


Example:

Black Mantra is a Darkness Elemental, He has the darkness Mark, His deck may include any cards in his posession but the mark is darkness.

Forcing players to use the mark of their element does make sense theme wise, but a large part of WoE is PvP battles, and those would be really boring and repetitive if your deckbuilding options would be limited like that. This is the same reason why we went with the 50%+ rule in War, instead of this mark one.

[Kael Hate]

I suggest we use Zanz original definition of the player and define them by their mark.

Thus your Starting deck is a bunch of your elements cards and every deck you use has to use the mark of your allegience. Everything else can be customised on what you aquire via salvage and trade. Also means the only dek checking that has to occur is the Mark when you Play.

Unaligned / Underworld Players starting deck is a rainbow type and they may use any mark. An underworld / unaligned player has the disadvantage tho that they do not make income from their faction.


Example:

Black Mantra is a Darkness Elemental, He has the darkness Mark, His deck may include any cards in his posession but the mark is darkness.

Forcing players to use the mark of their element does make sense theme wise, but a large part of WoE is PvP battles, and those would be really boring and repetitive if your deckbuilding options would be limited like that. This is the same reason why we went with the 50%+ rule in War, instead of this mark one.

I feel more limited by the 50% rule than by a Mark. Under the Mark restriction, I can run an Aether deck while I have a darkness mark and the mark simply generates Quanta I will never use wheras with the 50% rule I can never make an Aether Majority deck ever. With the Mark Limitation, I can use every card in my collection but with the 50% rule I cannot unless I have more of my elements cards.

[EvaRia]

I think we should limit restraints on deck-building as much as possible. Between starting element and highly specific skill trees, needing to devote deck-building to your element on top of that is too limiting, and won't allow players to go with their particular play style.

The way I see WoE is this.

Your skill tree is the equivalent of skills in other games. They are what defines your character/class. Everyone should be able to have a unique skill build. I agree with the way they are built right now. It gives you a lot of freedom in choosing your skill build, which is important.

You Home Element represents your devotions, who you work for. If your home element is say Fire, then you play in order to make fire the best element. But the important thing is, Just because you work for Fire does not necessarily make you a Fire Elemental. This means that although you work for Fire and it is much easier to obtain Fire cards compared to other cards, you do not necessarily have to build a deck that is based on fire, and you don't necessarily have to field a Fire Mark.

Your mark represents the type of elemental you actually are. I agree with making other marks somewhat difficult to obtain, so long as other things are not so restricted. It should be difficult to learn to metamorphose, as you are essentially changing your basic make-up, even if you do not change loyalties.

With that said, your deck is like your equipment. They represent the current tools you have to defeat others with. You should be able to use any deck, with no restrictions, as even though you work for your home element, you are not limited to waging war with their weapons. However, you DO know the ways of you home element better, so you should gain a small bonus when using 50% or more of cards from your element. For example, an EXP bonus when winning, or a small salvage bonus.

This is what makes the most sense to me thematically.

[Scaredgirl]

I feel more limited by the 50% rule than by a Mark. Under the Mark restriction, I can run an Aether deck while I have a darkness mark and the mark simply generates Quanta I will never use wheras with the 50% rule I can never make an Aether Majority deck ever. With the Mark Limitation, I can use every card in my collection but with the 50% rule I cannot unless I have more of my elements cards.

WoE doesn't have a 50%+ rule.

I think we should limit restraints on deck-building as much as possible. Between starting element and highly specific skill trees, needing to devote deck-building to your element on top of that is too limiting, and won't allow players to go with their particular play style.

The way I see WoE is this.

Your skill tree is the equivalent of skills in other games. They are what defines your character/class. Everyone should be able to have a unique skill build. I agree with the way they are built right now. It gives you a lot of freedom in choosing your skill build, which is important.

You Home Element represents your devotions, who you work for. If your home element is say Fire, then you play in order to make fire the best element. But the important thing is, Just because you work for Fire does not necessarily make you a Fire Elemental. This means that although you work for Fire and it is much easier to obtain Fire cards compared to other cards, you do not necessarily have to build a deck that is based on fire, and you don't necessarily have to field a Fire Mark.

Your mark represents the type of elemental you actually are. I agree with making other marks somewhat difficult to obtain, so long as other things are not so restricted. It should be difficult to learn to metamorphose, as you are essentially changing your basic make-up, even if you do not change loyalties.

With that said, your deck is like your equipment. They represent the current tools you have to defeat others with. You should be able to use any deck, with no restrictions, as even though you work for your home element, you are not limited to waging war with their weapons. However, you DO know the ways of you home element better, so you should gain a small bonus when using 50% or more of cards from your element. For example, an EXP bonus when winning, or a small salvage bonus.

This is what makes the most sense to me thematically.

I agree with everything you said. The more freedom we give the players, the better. That keeps things interesting for them, and everyone has a chance to customize their characters and decks as much as possible.

This is the reason why I forced players to spend their first two skill points on their own element. It will discourage players to do things like picking as their element, but picking skills and playing cards from .

We could do it like this:

1. No bonus if you have less than 50% of cards of your element
2. A bonus if you use 50%+ cards from your element (for example +1XP)
3. A big bonus if you use a mono deck of your element (for example +1XP and +1 Reputation)

This way you can play whatever you want, but will get something extra if you support your own element.

[majofa]

We could do it like this:

1. No bonus if you have less than 50% of cards of your element
2. A bonus if you use 50%+ cards from your element (for example +1XP)
3. A big bonus if you use a mono deck of your element (for example +1XP and +1 Reputation)

This way you can play whatever you want, but will get something extra if you support your own element.

And that's why I want to play WoE, open-ended customization!