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Malduk

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Re: Deckbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17192.msg218962#msg218962
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2010, 06:02:57 pm »
I meant in the sense that teams in war start with a huge Vault, and players in WoE dont.  :)) So, in war, every team, depending on their Vault prep, has a chance to take cards for duo to counter other team. In WoE that will be extremely hard to impossible. Elements without perma control will just run away from elements that have strong shield chain capabilities.

Scaredgirl

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Re: Deckbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17192.msg218963#msg218963
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2010, 06:05:17 pm »
Heres an odd thought.

What if we treated cards like "moves" or skills the player had learned.  The player may take any number of a certain "move" in his deck once he's learned it.

For instance, as a reward for completing the "Spider-witch" quest, the player "learns" to use phase spiders and recluses.  At the start of the event you're stuck with mono, true, but you aren't restricted to a "vault" per-se.  Then, as the game progresses, you can learn moves from your enemies, and from quests, and slowly expand your knowledge of the game.  This could include pillars/pendulums/marks, or it might not.

The underworld is supposed to be a bunch of rebels, right?  So as part of their character, they technically are an elemental from one of the original 12 elements.  They'd get to pick which elemental they are and which "moves" they start with.

Of course, this completely wrecks a lot of earlier ideas.
Interesting idea. But like you said, it would change a lot of things. Probably too big of a change.


One other option is to give players new marks based on level (just thought about this a second ago). For example, every two levels, you get one new mark.

level 1: 1 mark
level 2: 1 mark
level 3: 2 marks
level 4: 2 marks
level 5: 3 marks
level 6: 3 marks
etc.
I really like this system. Not only is it very simple, but I think it's elegant, as well.

I also like the reputation changes for (not) using your element's cards. There could be a cutoff (say, 50%), where using less than that percentage of your element starts negative reputation with your element, and using more than a certain percentage (maybe 80% or 85%) nets you positive reputation with your element. If we want less restrictions, the negative reputation part could be dropped whilst still providing a reason to use your own element.

...Now just how the hell does such a thing work for Underworld? Possibly not at all.
I had a very similar idea regarding decks and reputation changes, although my version had 4 possibilities. Your 3 is better. But I think that having percentages like 80% is way too complex and people will fail in math. A more simple version would be to reward a mono-deck with +1.

One thing that concerns me though.. if we have a high level rich :life player, he or she could potentially play anything BUT :life . This is a problem, because if we have a person with a "Champion of Life" title, one might think that the person actually uses light. If this person attacks with :death cards, I think that it would be kind of lame.
Upgrading :life skill tree would make his life decks better no? Meaning playing with cards from other elements would negate his skill level - which is penalty on its own. But, skill tree is still not defined, so we dont know if it would work that way yet.

I'm not in favor of War rules here. Not only because its repetitive, but also because elements ARE imbalanced, and IMO powerful :water player should be able to go wreck havoc in entropy or fire territory. Issue is that players dont start with huge Vault like in the war. They dont get to pull duo element to counter whatever comes in front of them, so elemental differences will be even more pronounced.
Skills don't generally make your cards better. I thought that it would be better to keep the two separate so that people have more options, and can make more interesting combinations, like Shaman Engineer who uses :light decks. My plan was that only the "Champion" skill would actually give you some upped cards or something. But that's not set in stone just yet.

I agree that War deckbuilding rules have big potential in making deckbuilding boring. I would probably be a bad move to have two of the biggest events have the same deckbuilding rules.

Are we using a vault for WoE?  Is that concept set in stone?
Each player will get their own personal Character Sheet and Vault. This way they do all the work and we don't need a dedicated WoE staff member to micro-manage Vaults.
I think he means vault in the sense of personal library of cards.

Also, with all this talk of different things affecting reputation, who exactly is keeping track of all that?  It seems like a lot of work for organizers if players aren'd doing it.
Players are doing it.

Daxx

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Re: Deckbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17192.msg219055#msg219055
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2010, 09:10:06 pm »
I think different Marks should be difficult to obtain, at least in the sense of requiring people to go on a quest or at least visit an area. I can support the idea of "once you've unlocked something, it's yours to use forever", but I think we should encourage players to use the Marks of their elements.

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Re: Deckbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17192.msg219064#msg219064
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2010, 09:16:49 pm »
I think different Marks should be difficult to obtain, at least in the sense of requiring people to go on a quest or at least visit an area. I can support the idea of "once you've unlocked something, it's yours to use forever", but I think we should encourage players to use the Marks of their elements.
I can already see people having issue with this.  This was the system used in the original masters tournament, and a lot of decks prefer having their marks used to "splash" for lesser cost abilities.  Terroking did really poorly once he found out he couldn't have a time mark.

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Re: Deckbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17192.msg219068#msg219068
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2010, 09:20:15 pm »
I think different Marks should be difficult to obtain, at least in the sense of requiring people to go on a quest or at least visit an area. I can support the idea of "once you've unlocked something, it's yours to use forever", but I think we should encourage players to use the Marks of their elements.
I can already see people having issue with this.  This was the system used in the original masters tournament, and a lot of decks prefer having their marks used to "splash" for lesser cost abilities.  Terroking did really poorly once he found out he couldn't have a time mark.
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Re: Deckbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17192.msg219070#msg219070
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2010, 09:21:18 pm »
I agree with the others. War deck building rules might be best, 50% of the starters elements with the ability to use any mark throughout the event. This would not restrict players to mono decks, but will leave them enough breathing room for semi-rainbows and duo decks.
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Re: Deckbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17192.msg219125#msg219125
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2010, 10:40:23 pm »
I think different Marks should be difficult to obtain, at least in the sense of requiring people to go on a quest or at least visit an area. I can support the idea of "once you've unlocked something, it's yours to use forever", but I think we should encourage players to use the Marks of their elements.
I can already see people having issue with this.  This was the system used in the original masters tournament, and a lot of decks prefer having their marks used to "splash" for lesser cost abilities.  Terroking did really poorly once he found out he couldn't have a time mark.
lol
I seem to recall you whining about air mark... =P
Just kidding I don't remember at all.  Did you wind up winning?

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Re: Deckbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17192.msg219279#msg219279
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2010, 02:22:46 am »
I think we should use positive incentives for people to use their own element's cards and Mark versus punishing them for not using them or out right restricting their deck-building flexibility.  Just the fact that it will take a lot of time to earn enough money to buy different cards to use is restriction enough.  So I don't think there should be restrictions on top of that.  However, we can give an extra salvage if more than 50% of their deck is their own element and an extra salvage if they use their own element's mark (those would be stackable).

I like Wizardcat's idea of tying Mark usage to their level.  It makes sense, it's easy to understand, and it's not too restricting while giving people nice rewards for leveling up their character.


I have a slightly off-topic remark that I just became concerned with.  The more we have people do to make this game work (like all the changes to reputation for the different circumstances/actions/results that occur in game), the more likely people will either mess up because they misunderstood how things are supposed to work or the more people have the opportunity to fudge a little to help their character out.  I wonder if this whole reputation system might be getting a little out of hand (at least for this first WoE).  I'm not against it.  I think it's a cool concept and I love how we're trying to implement it everywhere, but even I would have to be checking the rules all the time just to make sure I was adjusting my CS correctly because of all the different aspects of the game that affect reputation.  Maybe we need to simpifly this and limit how reputation is affected?

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Re: Deckbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17192.msg219282#msg219282
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2010, 02:33:21 am »
I think we should use positive incentives for people to use their own element's cards and Mark versus punishing them for not using them or out right restricting their deck-building flexibility.  Just the fact that it will take a lot of time to earn enough money to buy different cards to use is restriction enough.  So I don't think there should be restrictions on top of that.  However, we can give an extra salvage if more than 50% of their deck is their own element and an extra salvage if they use their own element's mark (those would be stackable).
Pretty much this. I'm not sold on those specific bonuses, but small but noticeable ones should work; small because we don't want all players only using Mono decks purely for them. That might get a bit stale after a bit...

Quote
I like Wizardcat's idea of tying Mark usage to their level.  It makes sense, it's easy to understand, and it's not too restricting while giving people nice rewards for leveling up their character.
That was Scared's idea, not mine.

Quote
I have a slightly off-topic remark that I just became concerned with.  The more we have people do to make this game work (like all the changes to reputation for the different circumstances/actions/results that occur in game), the more likely people will either mess up because they misunderstood how things are supposed to work or the more people have the opportunity to fudge a little to help their character out.  I wonder if this whole reputation system might be getting a little out of hand (at least for this first WoE).  I'm not against it.  I think it's a cool concept and I love how we're trying to implement it everywhere, but even I would have to be checking the rules all the time just to make sure I was adjusting my CS correctly because of all the different aspects of the game that affect reputation.  Maybe we need to simply this and limit how reputation is affected?
I'm assuming that once we start, all the stuff will nice and organized in a thread somewhere, linking to other threads for clarifications, if needed.
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Scaredgirl

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Re: Deckbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17192.msg219303#msg219303
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2010, 03:26:34 am »
I have another suggestion on how to include the mark. We could have marks as Tier 1 skills.

Check out the skill trees here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17109.0.html

See that middle skill on Tier 1? That could be a mark of that element. Everyone would start the game with a skill (mark of their element), and could later take other skills like other marks.

For example when I reach level 2, I have the option to take a 2nd mark. If I don't want one, I can take something else.

It would basically be the same as the previous "marks with levels" idea, but now players would have a choice, and we wouldn't be forcing them to take different marks.

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Re: Deckbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17192.msg219376#msg219376
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2010, 06:02:09 am »
I have another suggestion on how to include the mark. We could have marks as Tier 1 skills.

Check out the skill trees here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17109.0.html

See that middle skill on Tier 1? That could be a mark of that element. Everyone would start the game with a skill (mark of their element), and could later take other skills like other marks.

For example when I reach level 2, I have the option to take a 2nd mark. If I don't want one, I can take something else.

It would basically be the same as the previous "marks with levels" idea, but now players would have a choice, and we wouldn't be forcing them to take different marks.
This is genius. Players would then either have to take other marks to become more versatile in their deckbuilding (or at least take marks that they prefer to use with their element synergize well), or gain other skills to be versatile in the world. ^^

I say that the Mark = Skill for an elemental should definitely stay.

lukce

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Re: Deckbuilding https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=17192.msg219415#msg219415
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2010, 10:31:23 am »
I have a question: when can deckbuilders join WoE??

 

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