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Scaredgirl

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Re: Battle Mechanics https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8589.msg102148#msg102148
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2010, 01:37:11 pm »
If everyone does Move + defense, then no one is attacking; are you implying that all 3 (or more) can technically share that same spot then? Or is it based off of 'who went in first' to allow who gets to choose who to fight and or who stays (the other two just retreat then because they moved too late).
Multiple players can share one hexagon. There's no way around that because if we get 200+ players, there won't be enough hexagons for everyone.

If enemies move to a hexagon with Move + defense, there is no battle, but neither of the elements control the hexagon until one of them either leaves or is destroyed.


What's the point of Move + retreat if you're not given a warning as to who is there? It's basically the same thing (or most likely WORSE, since you're being attacked anyway) as doing nothing.
The point of Move + retreat is that the player will not have to fight no matter what.

Lets say there is a situation where you and a very strong player is close to one hexagon. You cannot know if the enemy will move to the same hexagon as you, but you also don't want to fight him. You choose Move + retreat which means that if the other player moves to the same hexagon, you will automatically retreat without a duel. If that player moves somewhere else, your retreat is canceled , and the Move + retreat basically becomes a simple Move.

If you chose Move + defense in that situation, and the enemy chose move and + attack, you two would have to fight.


...but yeah. I'm starting to think that if you need an organizer for this event, I'd be glad to assist. :)
Cool. I think we need all the help we can get. :)

t3hplatyz0rz

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Re: Battle Mechanics https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8589.msg102228#msg102228
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2010, 04:17:20 pm »
What if everybody chooses Move+Retreat except the strongest player? It would be a bit annoying to be running around trying to conquer the world, only to never have a battle because everybody's always running away from you. And you could never actually conquer the world because somebody who had always been picking move-retreat would just snap up a space as soon as you'd left.
I suppose you could corner people, or maybe have some sort of system for guarding spaces that you'd left, but still.
Personally, I think that no matter what system is chosen, there will be flaws in it that cannot be worked out unless some people have a little "alpha" go on. Maybe play a short version with a small map.

miniwally

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Re: Battle Mechanics https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8589.msg102229#msg102229
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2010, 04:20:39 pm »
What if everybody chooses Move+Retreat except the strongest player? It would be a bit annoying to be running around trying to conquer the world, only to never have a battle because everybody's always running away from you. And you could never actually conquer the world because somebody who had always been picking move-retreat would just snap up a space as soon as you'd left.
I suppose you could corner people, or maybe have some sort of system for guarding spaces that you'd left, but still.
Personally, I think that no matter what system is chosen, there will be flaws in it that cannot be worked out unless some people have a little "alpha" go on. Maybe play a short version with a small map.
Maybe it should be they can only retreat once then next turn they can't.

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Re: Battle Mechanics https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8589.msg102304#msg102304
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2010, 06:32:01 pm »
Multiple players can share one hexagon. There's no way around that because if we get 200+ players, there won't be enough hexagons for everyone.

If enemies move to a hexagon with Move + defense, there is no battle, but neither of the elements control the hexagon until one of them either leaves or is destroyed.
*smacks his head* Okay. NOW since multiple players can actually share a space (without owning it), this idea works pretty well - I can imagine some people just wanting to 'shortcut' through areas to get to a place as quickly as possibly (for a quest, to get a bonus, etc.), and thus they'll just "Move + Defense" to avoid having to deal with fights that could send them back a space (or worse - back to their home capital/starting position).

The point of Move + retreat is that the player will not have to fight no matter what.

Lets say there is a situation where you and a very strong player is close to one hexagon. You cannot know if the enemy will move to the same hexagon as you, but you also don't want to fight him. You choose Move + retreat which means that if the other player moves to the same hexagon, you will automatically retreat without a duel. If that player moves somewhere else, your retreat is canceled , and the Move + retreat basically becomes a simple Move.

If you chose Move + defense in that situation, and the enemy chose move and + attack, you two would have to fight.
So a passive move then? Hm... what would happen if two players did the Move + Retreat on the same hexagon? Would they (ironically) both flee back to their squares after seeing each other? :P

Okay, here's a more 'well-rounded' concept for the Move + Attack battling sequence that all players would simply type into one post. Players would have 5 options to choose from:

1) Offensive Move [Move + Attack]: Aggressively moves to a space (with or without an enemy) and engage any enemy within it. If multiple players are engaged in battle, only 1 fight per player will occur during each 'day'/round, until 1 is left remaining in control. The Attackers first attack each other, then those who are defending, and finally those who have 'stayed' (see option 4 & 5), until they lose/are kicked out or until they conquer the foe(s) to claim the territory.

2) Tactical Move [Move + Defend]: Defensively moves to a space (with or without an enemy) and avoid battle with anyone in that space UNLESS they are attacking. If two people move into a space with Defensive Move, they may NOT own the territory, but they will share the space (stay on the same space together) unless someone attacks or until all but 1 person leaves.

3) Passive Move [Move + Flee]: Initially moves to a presumed empty space (you wouldn't want to use this in a space with multiple people in it :P), but if another enemy is on the space or also moves into it, simply retreat back to your original space without fighting - IF YOUR ORIGINAL SPACE IS BEING MOVED INTO, you are then using option 5. If there are no people within that space, they claim the territory.

4) Hot Zone [Stay + Attack]: Stay in your original position, but if anyone comes into your territory, begin attacking them.

5) Fortify [Stay + Defend]: Stay in your original position, but only attack someone if they attempt to fight you. Otherwise, share space with them if they use a Tactical Move [Move into your space Defending]. This option is automatically used for any player who fails to post an action, as well as those who have become 'inactive' over a period of time, and those who have retreated from a space using option 3 but are still be engaged by enemy forces.


...Am I doing it right SG? ;D I'm REALLY loving the moving/tactical aspect of WoE - it's pretty amazing on how many ways you can claim or otherwise use territories. :)

What if everybody chooses Move+Retreat except the strongest player? It would be a bit annoying to be running around trying to conquer the world, only to never have a battle because everybody's always running away from you. And you could never actually conquer the world because somebody who had always been picking move-retreat would just snap up a space as soon as you'd left.
...
Maybe it should be they can only retreat once then next turn they can't.
Yeah, that'd probably be the best option in case someone is being OVERLY passive to the point where they're just moving around the board trying not to fight and just 'leech' off of spaces. Eventually, you'll have to fight (unless you're inactive...), so you can only use option 3 once every other day/round.

Scaredgirl

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Re: Battle Mechanics https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8589.msg102352#msg102352
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2010, 07:50:01 pm »
So a passive move then? Hm... what would happen if two players did the Move + Retreat on the same hexagon? Would they (ironically) both flee back to their squares after seeing each other? :P
Retreat should be though of as Retreat if attacked.

In your example, players would share the same hexagon and there would be no battle. It would be the same situation if one of the players chose Move + Defend.


Okay, here's a more 'well-rounded' concept for the Move + Attack battling sequence that all players would simply type into one post. Players would have 5 options to choose from:

1) Offensive Move [Move + Attack]: Aggressively moves to a space (with or without an enemy) and engage any enemy within it. If multiple players are engaged in battle, only 1 fight per player will occur during each 'day'/round, until 1 is left remaining in control. The Attackers first attack each other, then those who are defending, and finally those who have 'stayed' (see option 4 & 5), until they lose/are kicked out or until they conquer the foe(s) to claim the territory.

2) Tactical Move [Move + Defend]: Defensively moves to a space (with or without an enemy) and avoid battle with anyone in that space UNLESS they are attacking. If two people move into a space with Defensive Move, they may NOT own the territory, but they will share the space (stay on the same space together) unless someone attacks or until all but 1 person leaves.

3) Passive Move [Move + Flee]: Initially moves to a presumed empty space (you wouldn't want to use this in a space with multiple people in it :P), but if another enemy is on the space or also moves into it, simply retreat back to your original space without fighting - IF YOUR ORIGINAL SPACE IS BEING MOVED INTO, you are then using option 5. If there are no people within that space, they claim the territory.

4) Hot Zone [Stay + Attack]: Stay in your original position, but if anyone comes into your territory, begin attacking them.

5) Fortify [Stay + Defend]: Stay in your original position, but only attack someone if they attempt to fight you. Otherwise, share space with them if they use a Tactical Move [Move into your space Defending]. This option is automatically used for any player who fails to post an action, as well as those who have become 'inactive' over a period of time, and those who have retreated from a space using option 3 but are still be engaged by enemy forces.


...Am I doing it right SG? ;D
Yes, you are.

But you are missing one option, Stay + Flee (yes, I like your Flee better than my Retreat): Stay in your original position, but flee if someone attacks you. (useful when you go for a holiday, or just don't want to die).

I like those names you came up with, but I'm not really sure if they are even needed because they might just confuse people. To make it more simple, we could simply give players movement and stance choices:

MOVEMENT: Move (direction) or Stay
STANCE: Attack, Defend or Flee


So lets say I'm playing in the event and I post:

Quote
Move NW
Attack
..in my elements secret section. That gives all the information needed to WoE Organizer who will move my character North-West on the map. After everyone has moved, I will attack an opponent in that hexagon.

I like that rule you have in #3 about changing to #5 if the player cannot flee. That's logical and enables strategic tricks like surrounding the enemy.

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Re: Battle Mechanics https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8589.msg102734#msg102734
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2010, 07:54:13 am »
one thing. If you're rich enough, with a big enough army, could you let a deck (army) on one of your fields, because, if you can't they will be very easily captured, and hardly worth fighting for. Of course, one would have to choose how many soldiers he can leave behind, maybe even multiple armies (decks), or lots of cards, and make a deck when it actually comes to fighting. This will give a slight disadvantage to new players (who just joined WoE, not EtG), but in all cool MMORPG's newbies have disadvantages, and this only makes sense.
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Offline Kuroaitou

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Re: Battle Mechanics https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8589.msg103868#msg103868
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2010, 06:42:15 pm »
Retreat should be though of as Retreat if attacked.

In your example, players would share the same hexagon and there would be no battle. It would be the same situation if one of the players chose Move + Defend.
Fair enough.

Yes, you are.

But you are missing one option, Stay + Flee (yes, I like your Flee better than my Retreat): Stay in your original position, but flee if someone attacks you. (useful when you go for a holiday, or just don't want to die).

I like those names you came up with, but I'm not really sure if they are even needed because they might just confuse people. To make it more simple, we could simply give players movement and stance choices:

MOVEMENT: Move (direction) or Stay
STANCE: Attack, Defend or Flee

So lets say I'm playing in the event and I post:

Move NW
Attack

..in my elements secret section. That gives all the information needed to WoE Organizer who will move my character North-West on the map. After everyone has moved, I will attack an opponent in that hexagon.

I like that rule you have in #3 about changing to #5 if the player cannot flee. That's logical and enables strategic tricks like surrounding the enemy.
Okay, that's perfect then. :) WoE organizers have to simply then do two things: look at the person's post for their current position (whether they Stay or Move, and if it's the latter, use the direction/number as indicated by here from The dictator (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,8583.84.html)). If they DON'T post anything, we assume that they decided to take a break from fighting, and used the most "passive" action, or Stay + Flee (Avoid).

AFTER that, then the WoE organizers see who has attempted to flee first, thus moving them back into their position if someone is attacking on the space. If the player is defending or attacking, they then regulate the news of these players of the corresponding elements to the WoE battle organizer, who will then create matches in a separate thread for those players to fight within a 3 day time span, or else be eliminated/penalized. (Otherwise, they'll share the space, and be given a notification that someone else is on the space as well but is not attacking)

As for the bold part in the quote, is was mentioned by miniwally and "I can't spell his ridiculous name" t3hplatyz0rz about the concept of people trying to move into spaces while avoiding battles altogether.

One thing. If you're rich enough, with a big enough army, could you let a deck (army) on one of your fields, because, if you can't they will be very easily captured, and hardly worth fighting for. Of course, one would have to choose how many soldiers he can leave behind, maybe even multiple armies (decks), or lots of cards, and make a deck when it actually comes to fighting. This will give a slight disadvantage to new players (who just joined WoE, not EtG), but in all cool MMORPG's newbies have disadvantages, and this only makes sense.
I'm not sure what you're talking about xdude. Are you saying that with a 'big' enough deck, a player can split off his army into TWO armies (two decks, one which could be destroyed because if it doesn't have 30 cards, it's pretty much a loss)? If so, I don't know if that would make it more fun or more troubling to both the players and organizers, because that could imply that you have to manage multiple armies in a post, which could give some people a headache/be unsure of how to counter those players.

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Re: Battle Mechanics https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8589.msg103875#msg103875
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2010, 06:50:03 pm »
I'm not sure what you're talking about xdude. Are you saying that with a 'big' enough deck, a player can split off his army into TWO armies (two decks, one which could be destroyed because if it doesn't have 30 cards, it's pretty much a loss)? If so, I don't know if that would make it more fun or more troubling to both the players and organizers, because that could imply that you have to manage multiple armies in a post, which could give some people a headache/be unsure of how to counter those players.
I just meant you could leave some sort of a garrison on one of your territories to defend it. That could be either a preset deck or a bunch of cards, requiring you to make a deck only when you have to fight.
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Re: Battle Mechanics https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8589.msg104144#msg104144
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2010, 12:38:09 am »
I just meant you could leave some sort of a garrison on one of your territories to defend it. That could be either a preset deck or a bunch of cards, requiring you to make a deck only when you have to fight.
Ah, I see...

Well, it really depends on what the WoE organizers think. It sounds like it could be a hassle to implement, since you'd have to worry not only about the players of their current spots, but also of cards they 'left behind' in areas and whether those cards are destroyed/salvaged/fought against when an enemy (or multiple ones) engage in the same spot. Personally though, I think players should have to worry about their current player space, and not spots they leave previous cards in (minus their elemental capital city).

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Re: Battle Mechanics https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8589.msg104417#msg104417
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2010, 06:55:48 am »
I just meant you could leave some sort of a garrison on one of your territories to defend it. That could be either a preset deck or a bunch of cards, requiring you to make a deck only when you have to fight.
Ah, I see...

Well, it really depends on what the WoE organizers think. It sounds like it could be a hassle to implement, since you'd have to worry not only about the players of their current spots, but also of cards they 'left behind' in areas and whether those cards are destroyed/salvaged/fought against when an enemy (or multiple ones) engage in the same spot. Personally though, I think players should have to worry about their current player space, and not spots they leave previous cards in (minus their elemental capital city).
So, if you manage to somehow grab an "enemy" city,and then you go away, they can have it back in an instant? Doesn't seem quite right...
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Re: Battle Mechanics https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8589.msg108933#msg108933
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2010, 10:39:39 am »
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