Prewar - Deck Layout

[ddevans96]

I used this last War to assist with vaultbuilding. It worked well but it needs modified to fit the market system.

Spoiler for DECK LAYOUT:

Spoiler for Deck 1 - Grabbow:

Spoiler for Deck 2 - Utility Bow / Trio:

Spoiler for Deck 3 - Domin A:

Spoiler for Deck 4 - Domin B:

Spoiler for Deck 5 - Denial:

Spoiler for Deck 6 - Stall A:

Spoiler for Deck 7 - Stall B:

Spoiler for Deck 8 - Wild Card A:

Spoiler for Deck 9- Wild Card B:

Spoiler for Deck 10 - Wild Card C:

Spoiler for Deck 11 - Wild Card D:

Spoiler for Deck 12 - Wild Card E:

Spoiler for Mono Support:

Spoiler for Bow / Trio Support:

Spoiler for Domin / Denial Support:

Spoiler for Stall Support:

Spoiler for Tinkerer Support:

Spoiler for Other Support:

Spoiler for Notes:

~Our stalls do not have to be 40 cards, nor do our other decks have to be 30 cards. In the latter case, we put any extra cards into the support categories. For stalls, even if we can build it to be less than 40, fill it up, and put the rest of the cards, if more than 40, in support. This isn't relevant because pillars/pends aren't in the vault this time.

~This system excludes a true rush. While a true rush is rarely a good idea in War, as often you'll want at least some form of control, if we choose to have one avaliable, it can go as either a wild card, or the necessary cards can go in support.

~The grabbow is locked in there because it's powerful, versatile, and easy to remake if we lose it. Utility bow / trio means something like a physalia/sundial deck (poisonbow), or an immolation deck, or a Nymphcord, or anything similar. Stalls, dominators, and stall breakers denial should be self explanatory. If we use a second bow this war, we're going to have to base it around QT, most likely.

~These sections are not limiting. For example, a domin or stall can have stall breaking features in it. The Stall Breaker is meant to outline a deck that best serves that purpose, so we know we have a good deck in case we're expecting a stall. Also, if we decide, we can completely replace a section - for example, if we feel the uses of domination decks are fairly covered, we can swap the second one out for a rush, or another bow, or another stall, or more support. In general, though, the system here should be good, and anything else can be done using the support cards. Especially since we have three wild cards to work with.

We're going to put full decks into the layout, but what's actually important is the cost of the deck, which we'll need to calculate. We also need to keep track of water cards vs non-water cards, to make sure we're safely above 50% water.

FINAL DECK LAYOUT
UPGRADES RECOMMENDED

[ddevans96]

Calculations continuted from here. These will be used to formulate a deck layout, which I'll add to the OP afterwards.

18749 (total points available)/15000 (approximate cost of last war's starting vault)=1.25
269 (cards in last war's starting vault, not counting pillars/pends)*1.25=336. This is a rough estimate for the number of cards to shoot for with our starting vault. Going to round it down to 330 to give us a bit more room for expensive cards.

Now, assume we have an average of 20 non-pillar/pend cards per deck (most decks have less, grabbows and stalls may have more): 330/20=16.5, round down to 16 again for room. This is roughly how many decks we can field in our starting vault assuming no support cards.

Last war we had 8 full decks and 144 support cards, so roughly 4 more decks worth of cards. If we assume a similar ratio, taking out the 16th deck, we can have 10 decks and roughly 5 decks worth of support cards, with a fair bit of room to spare (possibly a whole extra deck). I'm going to design the deck layout, then, to have 10 decks.

My next goal is to calculate costs for all the full decks in our starting vault last war and any significant decks we may have picked up along the way.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

I think it's worth noting the availability of 'The Tinkerer.' Some really interesting possibilities will open up. I haven't thought of them all yet, but simply splashing Nymphs tears or squids in what would essentially be another element's mono becomes an amazing option. (Mono Dark with Squid splash, Mono Entropy with Tear splash just off the top of my head).

With the increased upgrades available to Soldiors, It also opens the door to superfast PSN Speedbows which will be much easier to balance than the usual War Grabbow.

Seriously, a well thought out Tinkerer against the hardest matchups could be the thing that wins war for someone. Utterly impossible to predict.

[ddevans96]

Tinkerer almost feels like it was made for Tears. What it does for us is absolutely insane.

PSNs are certainly an option we can look at, though with how expensive Nova is we'll have to think about only having 6 copies in the vault unfortunately. In an ideal world we'd have 30 - two grabbows, two SNbows, and a poisonbow - but that obviously can't happen.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

JCJ's Compilation of potential 'Tinkerer' Ideas

Obviously only one, maybe 2 of these could be used due to 50% in-element limit. But I'll build a few and see what people think.
ALL DECKS ARE TEMPLATES, NOT FINAL PRODUCT.

Spoiler for MonoDark Squid Splash:

Pros: Devs and Vampires usable in SoPa Vamps
Cons: Low Damage
Cost: 845

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5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5uk 5ul 5ul 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5um 5uo 5up 5up 606 606 606 606 606 7gr 7gr 7gr 7ta 7td 7td 7td 8pp

Spoiler for Desicated Bones:

Pros: Dessication is CHEAP. Decent counter to Air, as allows CC against SoFre, and poison through Wings.
Cons: Poison is a bit expensive, but we'd want it for other decks anyway.
Cost: 740

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52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 52r 52r 52r 542 542 542 542 71b 7h3 7h3 7h3 7h3 7h3 7h3 8pp

Spoiler for Entropy:

Pros: The usual solidity you get from mono entropy.
Cons: Nymphs are more fragile than the usual strait AM.
Cost: 695

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4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4ve 4ve 4ve 4ve 4vl 4vl 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 50u 5ia 5ig 5ig 5ig 6u2 6u2 6u2 7gm 7gm 7gm 7gm 8pp

Spoiler for CataTitans:

Pros: It's just awesome that this is possible. Mega Stall Break. And it's REALLY cheap using Armagios for spare fodder, which still pack a punch when frozen.
Cons: Tinkerer = only 4 upgrades off-element = only 4 AWs.
Cost: 620

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55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55m 55m 55m 55s 55s 55s 55s 561 561 561 576 576 576 576 576 7gr 7gr 7gr 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 8pp

Spoiler for AdrennaStaves:

Pros: This is I think the most competitive so far. Adrennastaves often suffers due to low damage output. Nymphs, Puffers and Specters sort this. In testing works GREAT.
Cons: Usual Adrennastaves issues, but all in all, not many.
Cost: 805

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5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5c1 5c1 5c5 5c5 5c5 5c5 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5ig 5ig 7gu 7gu 7gu 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 8pp

[ddevans96]

Cost of decks used last war (in progress):

Spoiler for In Starting Vault:

Spoiler for Rush Grabbow (1866 points):

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4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 590 590 590 590 590 590 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ie 5ie 5if 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 6rl 7dm 7gm 7gm 7gm 7gm 8pm

Spoiler for NT/UG Duo (465 points):

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5f9 5f9 5f9 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ig 5ig 5ig 5ig 5io 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5oc 5oc 5pu 5pu 7gk 7gk 7i6 7i6 7ms 7oe 8pr

Spoiler for Air Stall (905 points):

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5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i9 5i9 5i9 5ia 5ia 5ia 5ia 5ia 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5oh 5oh 5on 5on 5on 5on 5on 7gr 7gr 7gr 7n5 7n5 7n5 8pr

Spoiler for Sanc Stall (1170 points):

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5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5ia 5ia 5io 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5lh 5lh 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 7gp 7gp 7gp 7k2 7k2 7k2 8pq]

Spoiler for Toadmare (1042 points):

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5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5up 5up 5up 5v1 5v1 5v1 5v1 7gm 7gm 7gp 7gp 7tb 7tb 8pt

Spoiler for Serpentine (720 points):

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595 595 595 595 595 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5id 5id 5ie 5ie 5ie 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 7gm 7gm 7gs 7gs 7gs 7gs 8pm

Spoiler for Arctic PUgons (1140 points):

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5i4 5i4 5i4 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 61r 61r 61r 61r 61r 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 622 7gt 7gt 7gt 7i6 7i6 7i6 8pu

Spoiler for Fire Domin (760 points):

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5f6 5f6 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i7 5i7 5i7 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5io 5io 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 7gk 7gk 7gk 7i6 7i6 7i6 8po

Spoiler for Others:

[ddevans96]

OP has been updated with the deck layout. It's super important, so please look at it. Right now it's empty - what we do now is fill it with decks and support cards.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

I don't want to post a large Work In Progress deck list to fill here, like Legit did last war because I don't want to complicate things while dd works. I have a lot of man-power, but I feel it's best if I focus on particular tasks that dd thinks I or we should work on.
HOWEVER what I think we should all be doing:

- Everyone take a look at the market, and see if you can spot any under-priced cards in other elements which could synergise well with us. For example in my Tinkerer section I found Armagio at 20 and Titan at 45, meaning cata-titans was possible, cheaply. There must be more finds.

- Discussion is key, if there are any deck archetypes which you think would be good additions, post your ideas. Think about what they could fit in, whether Denial, Stall, Domin etc.

- With Pillars and Pends not being part of the vault, and Water essentially being strongest as a support element, we may struggle for 50% in element in vault. Start thinking about decks which would use a) majority water cards, and b) use the cheaper water cards, as if we have leftover funds and need to fill up on water cards, the cheapies could come in handy. DD talked about possibly including some Flooding (cost 10). Research into flooding decks could be time well spent. Chrysaora (20), Flooding (10), Mind Flayer (16) and our CC (Bolt, Freeze, Dry Spell, all 15) are places to start.

[RulacMage11]

I took a little note from a deck I built a while back, and I just want to toss this out there:

Spoiler for Cost:255:

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52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52k 52k 52k 52k 52k 52l 52l 52n 52n 52s 52s 52s 542 542 542 542 5i5 5i5 5i5 5ih 5ih 5ih 8pp

Obviously it NEEDS to be tweaked. But potentially this is a strong/cheap tinkerer deck.

Another:

Spoiler for Cost:692:

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55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55m 55m 55m 55m 562 562 562 562 563 563 563 563 563 563 576 576 576 5i7 5i7 5j2 5j2 5j2 8pp

Again - Tweaks will be necessary. I'm posting them fully unupped purposefully to allow us to decide where the ups are better placed, and for whom the matchup is against.

A non-tinkerer deck:

Spoiler for Cost:440:

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5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i7 5i7 5i7 5i7 5ia 5ia 5id 5id 5id 5id 5id 5id 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uu 8pt

Obviously, these are just ideas. Trying to create cheap, yet viable decks - to get discussion going. I know these will need tweaking, most will. Let's get her goin' boys

[JonathanCrazyJ]

Pretty pleased with this. 40 Card Stall for 700, inflating In-Element vault with cheap cards. Flooding, AM, Shield. Lieutenant build, but could easily work for anyone.
Could actually work very well with Sideboard soldier: If they are 30 card deck and easyish to deckout, remove the NT and an AM.

Needs balancing, an option is Water mark, with a few entropy Pillars and pends for potential Nymph backup in case they have enough CC to ride the AM.

Spoiler for Stall Cost 700:

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5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i7 5i7 5i7 5i7 5i7 5i7 5i9 5ia 5ia 5ia 5ia 5ia 5ia 5ig 5ig 5ih 5ih 5ih 5ih 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 5jm 6u7 6u7 6u7 6u7 6u7 6u7 7gp 7gp 7gp 8pj

[Spielkind]

Sorry for being not so active in discussion, but me has time-problems. I read most and would say if i think something is totally wrong or against my thoughts. Just wanted to say that, i´m here at most time and read anything, so when you have specific tasks for me like testing just wrote.  8)
Till now i´m very fine with all your thoughts and think this is a very good way. But i hope i have some time this week, cause imo we need not to focus so much on tinkerer, we have to look why we lost last war... our domins were sooo strong and good, but some matchups were totally like WTF? so lets goal for new things. That being said, ive no idea what. 

[JonathanCrazyJ]

So, after chatting with dd, Here is a Work in Progress list of deck ideas which could go in each slot. rather than building, all, I'm just writing the 'type' of deck.
This is a preliminary summary. I am absolutely sure I have missed things, I am equally sure I have added things which have no place in this because a) cost too much b) don't really fit the archetype c) can't be balanced d) are just a bit shit
This is a discussion booster.

Spoiler for DECK LAYOUT:

Spoiler for Deck 1 - Grabbow:

Grabbow is grabbow.

Spoiler for Deck 2 - Utility Bow / Trio:

Chrysaora Dials.
Shipwrecker (Patient Wardens with Pulvy)
Nymph UGs (Tears + air pends)

Spoiler for Deck 3 - Domin A:

Toadmare
Steam Machines
Nymphcord

Spoiler for Deck 4 - Domin B:

Patient Vamps + steal
Toads + Eagle's Eye
Patient Wardens

Spoiler for Deck 5 - Denial:

Serpentine
DBH (something like Game 5 here.
Nymphcord
NymphQuake
Patient Devourers

Spoiler for Deck 6 - Stall A:

Flooding Antimatter
Water/Air
Water/Light

Spoiler for Deck 7 - Stall B:

See Above

Spoiler for Deck 8, 9, 10 - Wild Cards:

Water / Death Rush
Adrenna-Puffers
Patient Devourers with Cloak
High CC Water/Air
Speed Poison
Patient RoL + squids, with sanctuary, aether mark and Silence splash.
Swallow

Spoiler for Mono Support:

Mono with Air mark for toads
Mono with earth mark for tridents

Spoiler for Bow / Trio Support:

Spoiler for Domin / Denial Support:

Spoiler for Stall Support:

Spoiler for Tinkerer Support:

Spoiler for Other Support: