Steam Machine | Steam Machine

[Cynxos]

Here's my take on a Steam Machine deck. It's super fun!

Code: [Select]

5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 808 808 808 808 80b 80b 80b 80b 80b
Steam Machines are unupped in order to take advantage of the lower cost.

I was quite surprised to see that the cooldown effect is part of the active skill and isn't a passive skill like swarm or mummy. That means that lobotomize removes it, leaving you with a Steam Machine with high attack power that doesn't decrease.

I just took this deck out for a test run in the trainer and... It's surpisingly fast.
I mean, it could actually work as a pretty decent speed deck.

[Essence]

What I think about Steam Machine? Well, to me it seems a bit underpowered. Cost of 2  is pretty high to pay each turn and guarantees that your Mark alone is not enough. Combined with the relatively high cost of Steam Machine, it's clear that 50/50   duo is pretty much the only deck that can use this card effectively. One other option of course is to take more  like shields and Congeal, and make a kind of stalling deck to you time to get those Machines bigger, but even then you need a lof of Fire Pillars because that steam is not cheap.

And this is AFTER the drop in cost to 5 to cast and 2 to activate.  Pretty much exactly my initial argument, remade here. (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,8197.0.html)

[UPRC]

Definitely has the potential to be my favourite water card. Very cool idea and looking forward to seeing it in action.

[PuppyChow]

Having thought more about it, Steam Machine is amazingly underpowered.

Let's compare it to Abyss Crawler. 6/6 for 4  .



Accumulative damage, if both are played on the same turn:

Creature	Turn 1	Turn 2	Turn 3	Turn 4	Turn 5	Turn 6
Abyssal Crawler	6	12	18	24	30	36
Steam Machine	0	4	11	21	34	51

So you see, Steam Machine doesn't start doing more damage until 5 turns in, at which point it will start doing much more. Still, it's a moot point, when you also look at the accumulative COSTS.

Accumulative cost, if both are played on the same turn:

Creature	Turn 1	Turn 2	Turn 3	Turn 4	Turn 5	Turn 6
Abyssal Crawler	4	4	4	4	4	4
Steam Machine	5	5 , 2	5 , 4	5 , 6	5 , 8	5 , 10

Using unupped steam machine because the upped version has no effect on attack and so gives it the best ratio.
Or, if you look at it with SoR, you're just paying 8  (mono probably) but no fire quanta at all. But that's a two card combo, and still costs double that of Abyssal Crawler.

Also worth mentioning is the control the two cards are susceptible to.

Abyssal Crawler	Rage Elixir	10+ Quanta Fire Bolt, 20+ Quanta other "Bolt-Like" Spell	Congeal	Antimatter	Gravity Pull	Devour
Steam Machine	40+ Quanta Fire Bolt, 70+ Quanta other "Bolt-Like" Spell	Lobo	Congeal	Rewind	Mutation	Quanta Denial (limited)	Antimatter (limited)	Gravity Pull (limited)

So you see, in some ways the Steam Machine is just as vulnerable to control as Abyssal Crawler is, just in different ways. I used the upped version of steam machine in this instance, so keep in mind that it also costs nearly twice as much.


To recap:
-Doesn't out-damage Abyssal Crawler until turn 5
-You will have paid at least 8 by then, more likely 5 8 . Upped, add 2 to both of those. Comparably, you will have only paid 4  with the Crawler
-Upped Machine is just as easy to control as Abyssal Crawler and unupped is probably even easier



Now, the problem with the Steam Machine isn't the ability cost. 2 Fire for what amounts to +3/+0 each turn is respectable, and the purpose of Steam Machine was to give SoR a good use. Having the ability cost 1 Fire does not give any use to SoR.

Instead, the initial cost is the problem. I would say make it cost drastically lower. 4 Water unupped, 5 Water upped for starters. Maybe as low as 3 Water unupped, 4 Water upped.

[Uncle Jellyfish]

Having thought more about it, Steam Machine is amazingly underpowered.

Let's compare it to Abyss Crawler. 6/6 for 4  .



Accumulative damage, if both are played on the same turn:

Creature	Turn 1	Turn 2	Turn 3	Turn 4	Turn 5	Turn 6
Abyssal Crawler	6	12	18	24	30	36
Steam Machine	0	4	11	21	34	51

So you see, Steam Machine doesn't start doing more damage until 5 turns in, at which point it will start doing much more. Still, it's a moot point, when you also look at the accumulative COSTS.

Accumulative cost, if both are played on the same turn:

Creature	Turn 1	Turn 2	Turn 3	Turn 4	Turn 5	Turn 6
Abyssal Crawler	4	4	4	4	4	4
Steam Machine	5	5 , 2	5 , 4	5 , 6	5 , 8	5 , 10

Using unupped steam machine because the upped version has no effect on attack and so gives it the best ratio.
Or, if you look at it with SoR, you're just paying 8  (mono probably) but no fire quanta at all. But that's a two card combo, and still costs double that of Abyssal Crawler.

Also worth mentioning is the control the two cards are susceptible to.

Abyssal Crawler	Rage Elixir	10+ Quanta Fire Bolt, 20+ Quanta other "Bolt-Like" Spell	Congeal	Antimatter	Gravity Pull	Devour
Steam Machine	40+ Quanta Fire Bolt, 70+ Quanta other "Bolt-Like" Spell	Lobo	Congeal	Rewind	Mutation	Quanta Denial (limited)	Antimatter (limited)	Gravity Pull (limited)

So you see, in some ways the Steam Machine is just as vulnerable to control as Abyssal Crawler is, just in different ways. I used the upped version of steam machine in this instance, so keep in mind that it also costs nearly twice as much.


To recap:
-Doesn't out-damage Abyssal Crawler until turn 5
-You will have paid at least 8 by then, more likely 5 8 . Upped, add 2 to both of those. Comparably, you will have only paid 4  with the Crawler
-Upped Machine is just as easy to control as Abyssal Crawler and unupped is probably even easier



Now, the problem with the Steam Machine isn't the ability cost. 2 Fire for what amounts to +3/+0 each turn is respectable, and the purpose of Steam Machine was to give SoR a good use. Having the ability cost 1 Fire does not give any use to SoR.

Instead, the initial cost is the problem. I would say make it cost drastically lower. 4 Water unupped, 5 Water upped for starters. Maybe as low as 3 Water unupped, 4 Water upped.

I agree with this 100%. As of right now, Steam Machine isn't really worth playing unless you're using it with SoR, which most people won't have unless they either farm Top 50 for a while or donate a bunch. Lowering the casting cost for a growth-like creature with 0 starting attack power isn't going to hurt anything, and will make it a bit more playable.

Note, however, that it has amazing synergy with Rage Potion/Elixir.

[icybraker]

I agree with most of what Puppy said and I think that lowering the cost to something roughly similar with other growth creatures ( spirit, fire eater) may work. How about decreasing the unupped cost by 2 and the upped cost by 3 ? It may sound pretty drastic, but after Puppy's evidence, I think it may be a good move.

[BluePriest]

I dont think anyone mentioned how strange it would be for this card to survive flooding. just doesnt make sense to me lol

[Dragoon1140]

Why not just keep everything the same right now but get rid of the "-1 charge per turn?"  It would become a +4 attack growth creature and thus would be worth the steep playing costs.

[Essence]

Dragoon, that would run the severe risk of making it OP with SoR.


I have to say, I see this on a pretty clear continum:

Fire Spirit - 2 Fire, Ablaze, 0/2
Fire Eater - 2 Gravity, Ablaze, 0/5
Steam Machine - 5 Water, Steam, 0/8.

Now, Steam is about equal to Ablaze, considering that it costs twice as much and ticks down, but every 2 turns of Steam Power is equal to 3 turns of Ablaze.  I'd call that a wash.  One is easier to splash, the other is significantly stronger in the long run.

The question, then, is "is it worth 3 more quanta to get 3 more HP on creatures that are otherwise equal?


I can't see any circumstances in which I can say that it is. 

[PuppyChow]

The question, then, is "is it worth 3 more quanta to get 3 more HP on creatures that are otherwise equal?

I think you're referring to the unupped vs. upped, and if so it's 2 more quanta to get 7 more HP.

EDIT: You're referring to fire spirit vs. steam machine. No, you're right. Also of note is that fire spirit's ability costs of-element, while steam machine's costs off-element. I advocate taking down steam machine's cost (see my post).

[Arondight]

I'm all for lowering the cost to use it's ability and cost to summon 100%.

[918273645]

Awesome artwork and great synergy between Water and Air. Zanz made the most "creative" card until now. Seems fine and balanced to me.

  Um... you mean and  ?