War #6 - Suggestions and Feedback

[bogtro]

If a team is expected to do some task based on the opponent's deck, the opponent's deck should be posted in a timely manner (as in, right after the first deck is posted). As it stands now, it is possible to simply post your deck right near the end of the duel phase in order to force the winning team to not complete said task.

[mrpaper]

I am having a big issue about my match with Hyroen which is why I waited until the last minute to post it.  I gave the warmasters every chance to rectify they're wrong but they decided not to.  Here is what happened:  I played vs Hyroen thinking he was the quartermaster (having only 3 ups) while he was in fact the lieutenant (having 6 ups).  I of course notice something was wrong about how fast he was to getting his ups, but since he had fractals, I could never say if he did in fact had more then 3 (only 2 different cards among the 6).   Therefore, I played more agrressively then I should and would.. and ended up losing 2 matches because of it. 
the reason why I thought Hyroen was the qm instead of lieutenant is beacause WARMASTERS TOLD SO in the matches list!!!
Warmasters don't see a gap between playing a 6 card ups and a 3 card ups... I told em it is crucial especially when facing a general who has 9!
I asked for a rematch, was denied...
I asked for another match with new decks, was denied ( I wasnt that high on that solution either but trying to find something)....
I asked for my team not to get the penalty of 15 cards since it is what warmasters cost us and let light having they're salvage since they did get the win somewhat, was denied!
I asked for any solution that would not hurt my team because of they're mistakes since war should be won/loss by matches won not by warmasters random mistakes... I was denied...
There is still time to do something so I ask you're support all even if we aren't all in the same element, that could very well happen to you and I'd beglad to support you if it does!
Thanks in advance for me and my team ( who doesn't like this more then I do, you'd understand)
mrpaper general of team earth

[Avenger]

To avoid a future situation like MrPaper got into, i think it would be fair if everyone checks their own title and report problems before duel.

[hainkarga]

I'm not really sure if his knowledge of ups beforehand would make any difference, but it was his right to know what to face in any case, even if he used 30 pillar deck.  I don't know what WMs think, maybe it could be compensated with some damage control. But like what ?

I asked for a rematch, was denied...
I asked for another match with new decks, was denied ( I wasnt that high on that solution either but trying to find something)....

Well from light's point of view, they played a fair match and won 3-0. So it would be unfair to them. It is okay if they volunteer for a rematch but would be bad science to force them.

I asked for my team not to get the penalty of 15 cards since it is what warmasters cost us and let light having they're salvage since they did get the win somewhat, was denied!

This would be unfair to all 11 teams who expects your match with light end with one of their opponents to lose 15 cards.

I asked for any solution that would not hurt my team because of they're mistakes since war should be won/loss by matches won not by warmasters random mistakes... I was denied...

Best i can come up for now is discarding 15 cards but from anything in your vault, not limited to your played deck. This combined with 24 quanta conversion rule, you should be able to avoid having to use suicide decks next round. Just thinking.

[Acsabi44]

I am having a big issue about my match with Hyroen which is why I waited until the last minute to post it.  I gave the warmasters every chance to rectify they're wrong but they decided not to.  Here is what happened:  I played vs Hyroen thinking he was the quartermaster (having only 3 ups) while he was in fact the lieutenant (having 6 ups).  I of course notice something was wrong about how fast he was to getting his ups, but since he had fractals, I could never say if he did in fact had more then 3 (only 2 different cards among the 6).   Therefore, I played more agrressively then I should and would.. and ended up losing 2 matches because of it. 
the reason why I thought Hyroen was the qm instead of lieutenant is beacause WARMASTERS TOLD SO in the matches list!!!
Warmasters don't see a gap between playing a 6 card ups and a 3 card ups... I told em it is crucial especially when facing a general who has 9!
I asked for a rematch, was denied...
I asked for another match with new decks, was denied ( I wasnt that high on that solution either but trying to find something)....
I asked for my team not to get the penalty of 15 cards since it is what warmasters cost us and let light having they're salvage since they did get the win somewhat, was denied!
I asked for any solution that would not hurt my team because of they're mistakes since war should be won/loss by matches won not by warmasters random mistakes... I was denied...
There is still time to do something so I ask you're support all even if we aren't all in the same element, that could very well happen to you and I'd beglad to support you if it does!
Thanks in advance for me and my team ( who doesn't like this more then I do, you'd understand)
mrpaper general of team earth

If this really happened, then I agree and support you wholefully.
I also think that at least some form of compensation wouldn't be unfair. I don't think that a rematch is possible at this state, and IMO light has all rights to their salvage. After all, they fought and won their match fair and square (regardless of the hiccup now).
Futhermore, there is no way of telling wether you knowing the exact number of upps in Hyro's deck would have had any effect on the outcome or not.
But regardless of this mixup's possible effect on the outcome, if things stayed as they are now, that would just somehow feel *wrong* .

To avoid a future situation like MrPaper got into, i think it would be fair if everyone checks their own title and report problems before duel.

^This.

[bogtro]

It's not difficult to imagine a situation where not knowing the correct number of ups changes a match.

For example, pretend that both sides were using a grabbow, and Hyro had played 3 elite graboids and has 1 quanta. Paper then decides that it is unlikely that Hyro will topdeck a nova, so he feels safe evolving his graboid. Suddenly, Thunderbolt. Oops. Paper ends up losing 2-3. Well, shit.

Although I don't really get how it would have affected this match.

[deuce22]

ftr, I support mrpaper in that replay would be the most fair ruling.

Spoiler for Hidden:

[23:12] <deuce22> i think replay was appropriate
[23:12] <deuce22> if you win 3-0 and you play the same decks again
[23:12] <deuce22> what's the difference?
[23:13] <deuce22> you played under false pretenses that was neither your fault or your opponent's
[23:13] <deuce22> replay would have been most fair ruling
[23:13] <deuce22> if he was LT
[23:13] <deuce22> and you see aether mark and aether pills/pends
[23:14] <deuce22> you know right away what he's playing
[23:14] <deuce22> and your play will be different assuming he has 5-6 RoLs instead of 3 + luci/photon
[23:14] <deuce22> replaying the match would yield the appropriate result while not disrupting the event

While I think the result in this match would have been the same, but maybe 3-2 or 3-1, I still think replay would have been the appropriate ruling.

[Annele]

ftr, I support mrpaper in that replay would be the most fair ruling.

Spoiler for Hidden:

[23:12] <deuce22> i think replay was appropriate
[23:12] <deuce22> if you win 3-0 and you play the same decks again
[23:12] <deuce22> what's the difference?
[23:13] <deuce22> you played under false pretenses that was neither your fault or your opponent's
[23:13] <deuce22> replay would have been most fair ruling
[23:13] <deuce22> if he was LT
[23:13] <deuce22> and you see aether mark and aether pills/pends
[23:14] <deuce22> you know right away what he's playing
[23:14] <deuce22> and your play will be different assuming he has 5-6 RoLs instead of 3 + luci/photon
[23:14] <deuce22> replaying the match would yield the appropriate result while not disrupting the event

While I think the result in this match would have been the same, but maybe 3-2 or 3-1, I still think replay would have been the appropriate ruling.

This seems fair. It's unlikely that Team Light will lose; but this will show if it would have made a difference.

[bripod]

I point NO finger at Hyroen or Team Light, as in my eyes, they did no wrong and should be able to Salvage properly...

I do however, think that the mistake made by the WM's on this matter were most unfortunate to my General and my Team...

I have pondered since that moment on what I thought should be just compensation for the mistake and have yet to reach a conclusion... and that troubles me.

Yes, there should have been a system in place to check these things. Yes, it could have made a difference. A replay now with those decks most likely would not change the outcome as there has been discussion on other techniques for combating the deck we brought that Hyroen failed to see...

We all know of the woes of RNG... We have all felt the game slip from our hands at it's merciless whim... A different play style could have gotten this game to a 2-2 situation and 2 bottom decked Nymphs. Just look at my match with Valuka this round.... RNG killed him, not me...

I don't know what the answer is.... I'm pretty sure we will be told to suck it up and take our loss as if nothing happened... I'm sure tomorrow many will talk about our petty plea for justice or maybe even ridicule our attempt, but just ask yourself... what if the next time, it happens to you....

[ddevans96]

As someone who managed to screw up a flying boat ton of random stuff as WM, I don't really feel right critizing the WMs for the final result, but I can still remind you to triple-check everything. Probably saved me a few headaches in the end.

[eaglgenes101]

Kinda off topic, but maybe we should have a thread to stick all this RNG god/goddess/whatever stuff (and other related things).

[Avenger]

I'm not really sure if his knowledge of ups beforehand would make any difference, but it was his right to know what to face in any case, even if he used 30 pillar deck.  I don't know what WMs think, maybe it could be compensated with some damage control. But like what ?

I asked for a rematch, was denied...
I asked for another match with new decks, was denied ( I wasnt that high on that solution either but trying to find something)....

Well from light's point of view, they played a fair match and won 3-0. So it would be unfair to them. It is okay if they volunteer for a rematch but would be bad science to force them.

I asked for my team not to get the penalty of 15 cards since it is what warmasters cost us and let light having they're salvage since they did get the win somewhat, was denied!

This would be unfair to all 11 teams who expects your match with light end with one of their opponents to lose 15 cards.

I asked for any solution that would not hurt my team because of they're mistakes since war should be won/loss by matches won not by warmasters random mistakes... I was denied...

Best i can come up for now is discarding 15 cards but from anything in your vault, not limited to your played deck. This combined with 24 quanta conversion rule, you should be able to avoid having to use suicide decks next round. Just thinking.

Besides WMs,  was in the best position to verify the duel listing entry and ask for a repair or inform MrPaper about the fluke. They didn't.
So, they are not completely clear, while the rules didn't require something like this and they could easily assume the WMs are unfailing machines.