War #6 - Suggestions and Feedback

[majofa]

Your math is incorrect: 4 * 5 = 20 ...
You don't gain Pillars/Pends of your elements in wins, so assume 81 cards lost, not 63. If you keep 3 quanta sources per deck, that's a total of 9. In 3 decks you'll probably be losing about 36/45 quanta sources. If you have to play the same amount of matches - like when your drop from 283 -> 220 cards left - you're left with no way to get enough quanta sources.

Plus, most decks use more than 12 quanta sources.

Also, your solution would make allowable conversion less.

[rob77dp]

Your math is incorrect: 4 * 5 = 20 ...
You don't gain Pillars/Pends of your elements in wins, so assume 81 cards lost, not 63. If you keep 3 quanta sources per deck, that's a total of 9. In 3 decks you'll probably be losing about 36/45 quanta sources. If you have to play the same amount of matches - like when your drop from 283 -> 220 cards left - you're left with no way to get enough quanta sources.

Plus, most decks use more than 12 quanta sources.

Also, your solution would make allowable conversion less.

MATHfail spotted!  The multiplier can be adjusted I suppose.  The idea was that later round conversion allowed a team at 50% W/L or-better in a round to recover most-if-not-all lost quanta production in the average 30-ish card deck (losing with larger decks does not currently increase the Discard -27) but that losing half-or-more of your matches would still be quite painful.  How about 5 or 6 for the multiplier?

(Also, note that the current 24 is a multiplier of 4 with my suggestion if you have 6 matches in a round.)

[majofa]

Why not unlimited?

[rob77dp]

Why not unlimited?

My response to that question is that I still want losing to be a stiff  enough penalty that teams start dropping out in the -21 and -27 discard rounds.  As it is now teams still hung on for multiple rounds with simply one match per round (my team, , being one of them!).  Perhaps the unlimited conversion still accomplishes this, though my opinion (having only done this one War) is it seems likely to be a bit too strong of a change (for teams losing matches in later rounds).

Other's responses will vary.  (duh, right?)

[majofa]

Why not unlimited?

My response to that question is that I still want losing to be a stiff  enough penalty that teams start dropping out in the -21 and -27 discard rounds.  As it is now teams still hung on for multiple rounds with simply one match per round (my team, , being one of them!).  Perhaps the unlimited conversion still accomplishes this, though my opinion (having only done this one War) is it seems likely to be a bit too strong of a change (for teams losing matches in later rounds).

Other's responses will vary.  (duh, right?)

Unlimited conversion would only prevent suicides, it'd have no effect on teams fielding 1-2 decks.

Losing is a stiff penalty (-27 cards). Having to suicide makes it go from 27 to 54 cards.

[Helston]

It's nice for you that you speak German but I didn't say something bad. Also it wasn't anything important. I went home from a party. Sorry for confusion. Silly alcohol 

Yeah I don't even properly understand what you said. What I could make out/translate looked a tiny bit iffy, so I figured I'd point out I can speak the language too. I'm utterly terrible with just about anything that isn't pure Hoch Deutsch.


On topic: majofa, what would be the absolute maximum number of conversions you could see yourself doing in a round, assuming your Vault isn't terrible and conversions are unlimited?

[Acsabi44]

One round we could have used around 30, I don't think it gets much worse than that

[Onizuka]

If there is to be unlimited salvage, then there needs to be a more strict rule on what a legal suicide is.

Forcing at least 50% of the deck being non-in element pillar/pends at the least.

[Anthraxx]

Here's a crazy idea, how about we do it MtG draft way and keep only non pillar/pend/mark cards in vault and let players get as many as they want for the duels? This would totally remove the need for conversion.

Discard would have to exclude pillars and vault sizes would have to be smaller as well + probably a few more tweaks.

[mrpaper]

having no pillars/pends at start in vault would also have another advantage... stalls are a problem to keep later in wars because of the shortage of cards they count for around 1.5 decks while it's still only one.  Why should the rushes have an advantage over stalls?  There ain't a real reason, but it is this way.  Having stoneskins in my element I can tell!

[rob77dp]

having no pillars/pends at start in vault would also have another advantage... stalls are a problem to keep later in wars because of the shortage of cards they count for around 1.5 decks while it's still only one.  Why should the rushes have an advantage over stalls?  There ain't a real reason, but it is this way.  Having stoneskins in my element I can tell!

To be quite blunt, I am 100% OK with certain aspects of War that tend to keep stalls to a minimum. 

No, Elements is not "Elements: The Rush Game" but I feel quite strongly that even with the current rules there were PLENTY of stalls going on in War 6.  Perhaps the prevailing opinion disagrees with that, but it is my opinion nonetheless.

[hainkarga]

Other than preventing suicide, pillars & pendulums should not effect the decks you can field. Having unlimited conversions does that. Conversions already harm your vault in a way that you have to kill other decks in your vault (if you lose with catatitans, you lose your catatitans and will have to convert frogtal cards to aether pillars.). So majofa's suggestion sounds good. It is not like people will convert like mad men.

As for Anthraxx's suggestion; having unlimited pillars & pendulums regardless of your vault is different.
1- It will change the type of decks that you can repeatedly field (stalls)
2- It would allow you keep everything in your vault other than the losing deck. Since you don't have to kill cards from your vault in order to convert. (you lose with catatitans, and you don't have to convert frogtal)

Every war there are a lot of decks that are being converted without ever having the chance to be played because some other deck lost. I don't particularly like this. But choosing what to convert is a strategy that forces the teams be more careful about their initial vault and adapting to changes. So I'm not sure if i really like unlimited free pillars.

+1 for majofa the evil master's idea tho.