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Offline serprex

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Re: War #10 - Voices of the Fallen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63362.msg1249164#msg1249164
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2016, 01:10:34 pm »
@dragonsdemesne
Discord misplayed her loss vs Solaris: she thought she only had 5 bolts, & may've not realized she could win off 4
Afda letting Water take a game, Jonathan trying to let Air take the game back, Kuro being Kuro, just to name a few, there have been sportsmen
As for drama stuff, well, it's war, but like the transmute thing.. mistake by WMs sure, but over reaction, that's really the issue. Peeps need to learn the idgaf philosophy
JCJ was wondering why demesne took things hard.. It's because demesne & I joined Light because Solaris was being a dick. We weren't looking to win, we were looking to lols. So our bullshit tolerance was pretty low. If I hadn't been on :light I would've wanted to be on :water, great team you got, hope you the best of luck in the rest of war
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 01:12:07 pm by serprex »

Offline JonathanCrazyJ

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Re: War #10 - Voices of the Fallen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63362.msg1249165#msg1249165
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2016, 01:14:40 pm »
@dragonsdemesne
Discord misplayed her loss vs Solaris: she thought she only had 5 bolts, & may've not realized she could win off 4
Afda letting Water take a game, Jonathan trying to let Air take the game back, Kuro being Kuro, just to name a few, there have been sportsmen
As for drama stuff, well, it's war, but like the transmute thing.. mistake by WMs sure, but over reaction, that's really the issue. Peeps need to learn the idgaf philosophy
JCJ was wondering why demesne took things hard.. It's because demesne & I joined Light because Solaris was being a dick. We weren't looking to win, we were looking to lols. So our bullshit tolerance was pretty low. If I hadn't been on :light I would've wanted to be on :water, great team you got, hope you the best of luck in the rest of war

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Offline Blacksmith

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Re: War #10 - Voices of the Fallen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63362.msg1249180#msg1249180
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2016, 04:51:30 pm »
Well, that sucked.  We had some brutal RNG, losing several matches we were heavily favoured in, some extremely unfavourable matchups that we had no chance in.  And then, of course, there were the twin mistakes of Warmasters giving us an unwarranted penalty for Serprex,  as well as the reversal of a decision to let us transmute to avoid a 3rd match.

The unsportsmanlike conduct of many of the people this War was simply abysmal.  You know who you are, and everyone else can look at some of the discussions if they want, and learn who you are, too.  It is a true shame that such a potentially good event had to be ruined by such childish behaviour.  I'll refer you to the War round discussion threads below, but you can clearly see how ridiculous some players were in their protests.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/war/war-10-round-7/
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/war/war-10-general-discussion/msg1246939/#msg1246939

To Solaris.  I am sure that you had a lot of fun dragging your match with Light out for hours and hours.  I'm not sure how many desyncs you induced, or how many times you refused to connect to get the match you couldn't possibly win over with, but I think you probably set a new record.  I hope it will never be equaled.

To the Warmasters.  I know you guys did your best, but your inexperience clearly showed.  Most of your event cards were completely meaningless, and your rulings were inconsistent and unfair.  This does not apply just to team Light; apparently you guys treated different teams differently when they used incorrect marks accidentally.  I do not believe this was done maliciously; you simply had no idea how to run the event.

To Team Light.  You guys were a great team.  I enjoyed playing with all of you.  I'm sorry things didn't work out better, but I did what I could.  Not every team can win War.  It is unfortunate that War was ruined by the extraneous politics that occurred, and I hope that you all have a better experience next time.

To everyone in War.  It's just a game.  Remember that.  There's no reason to bitch and whine just because you don't get your way, or because another team thinks of something you didn't think of that ruins your plans.  If a team comes up with a way to survive another round, congratulate them on a game well played, rather than throw temper tantrums in public because your wagers didn't go your way.

Don't bother contacting me for any votes on 'most sportsmanlike player of war 10' or anything like that.  Nobody who interacted with Light this war deserved it.

I'm not sure if I'll be back for another War or not.  It really depends on all of you.

Sad to see you mad about stuff. I know how it feels when it feels like Rng goes against you. And you we're really working in an uphill with the situation team :light were put in. Having 0 player in a team that knows the element well has to my knowledge never happened before. So to a big extent you had to try your way forward instead of having someone to learn from. And that is to my belief the reason of your early downfall.

I hope to see all members in team :light join war again. As for the drama, people have to learn not to exaggerate things and be to emotional.


Everyone loses to RNG every now and then, but you don't have to constantly complain about it. As you said, it's just a game, so no bitching required.

Flaming is also not very nice.
I'm quite sure Dragon was sincere and didn't say anything he didn't think was true. Flaming for no reason but drama is a different thing though.
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Offline Silver Emerald

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Re: War #10 - Voices of the Fallen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63362.msg1249187#msg1249187
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2016, 05:58:23 pm »
I have a lot to think on after this first time.

On one paw, would have liked to go further.

On another, admittedly I'm somewhat glad that matches are no longer on my mind as reality was starting to interfere with my availability.

Going forward, I would ask that a public record be kept of all WM rulings since these competitions began - not something that people maybe remember from past wars, maybe don't. I see nothing but benefit from an established record as it could act as a continuous precedent and hopefully help teams avoid trouble that their predecessors have wandered into over the years.

Best of luck to those still fighting.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 06:00:24 pm by Silver Emerald »
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Offline JonathanCrazyJ

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Re: War #10 - Voices of the Fallen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63362.msg1249189#msg1249189
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2016, 06:02:34 pm »
Going forward, I would ask that a public record be kept of all WM rulings since these competitions began - not something that people maybe remember from past wars, maybe don't. I see nothing but benefit from an established record as it could act as a continuous precedent and hopefully help teams avoid trouble that their predecessors have wandered into over the years.

This is actually an excellent idea. It would allow WMs a solid frame of reference and let them feel more supported. Unfortunately it would also make precedents for everything and probably create more drama from people using other WMs (possibly wrong) decisions as a reference for their own complaint.
Overal though I think records are good things
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Offline Aves

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Re: War #10 - Voices of the Fallen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63362.msg1249193#msg1249193
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2016, 07:13:46 pm »
Going forward, I would ask that a public record be kept of all WM rulings since these competitions began - not something that people maybe remember from past wars, maybe don't. I see nothing but benefit from an established record as it could act as a continuous precedent and hopefully help teams avoid trouble that their predecessors have wandered into over the years.

This is actually an excellent idea. It would allow WMs a solid frame of reference and let them feel more supported. Unfortunately it would also make precedents for everything and probably create more drama from people using other WMs (possibly wrong) decisions as a reference for their own complaint.
Overal though I think records are good things
If that's actually the case, I'm surprised it's taken this long for that idea to pop out; I was under the impression that such records already existed for WMs to look over, though they may be going through and searching for/looking at previous rulings manually.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 07:16:18 pm by Aves »
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Offline deuce22

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Re: War #10 - Voices of the Fallen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63362.msg1249197#msg1249197
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2016, 08:21:39 pm »
Typically rules are either updated during war before the start of the next round or before the start of the next war clarifying rulings of such situations. At least that's what old WMs did. Was something missed here or there, sure. I think some WMs may have modified the rules or "simplified" them to try and cover more situations in fewer words, which creates ambiguity in interpretation.

When I was WM, my sole goal was to minimize bitching throughout war. Bitching will happen, but as long as you are fair and consistent throughout war, complaints should be minimal. But this is so much easier said than done. This is why I was very strict on rules as a WM and still feel this way through this war. Having witnessed a lot of the drama surrounding rulings this war, perhaps my preference for strict adherence to rules isn't the best way. I mean rules are there for a reason. But perhaps a line should be added that gives WMs flexibility of rulings based on intent or things that wouldn't affect the match outcome. Only other option is literally adding every specific ruling that pops up.

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Re: War #10 - Voices of the Fallen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63362.msg1249201#msg1249201
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2016, 09:53:17 pm »
For what it's worth, I kept personal records of all WM rulings during my tenure. It would not be hard for future WMs to go through all previous wars and compile a list of most, if not all, WM rulings
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Re: War #10 - Voices of the Fallen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63362.msg1249359#msg1249359
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2016, 06:40:46 am »
I would like to thank all of my teammates. They were true sportsmen. Especially Disco, thanks for bidding on me and thanks for letting me know I was useful somehow! :D
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Re: War #10 - Voices of the Fallen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63362.msg1249576#msg1249576
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2016, 08:38:23 am »
Well, let's say a few words where it all went wrong here, too, shall we? It's really not hard, though, it's gone wrong since day 1. Because during vaultbuilding I didn't see much of anything, I asked for kdz' grand plan and got nothing. Well, we still need a vault, don't we? *sigh* Guess I'd better get started.

So despite planning on tagging along and learning a bit about whichever team I'd wind up in, I wound up building vault myself... With no prior experience in team Fire in war or sharded wars I just built some staple Fire decks: 2 Immo rushes, 2 Fire stalls, 2 Fractices... and then got to thinking what original ideas I should think of to complement Fire's weaknesses. They were Voidbolt and Catitan to counter Bone Wall, and NT rush to deal with Lightning/Shockwave. Which is all fine and dandy, except the only deck proposal I got during vaultbuilding from others was an RT splash from kdz, which implied the RTs coming from salvage, meaning none of it had to be included in vault. Both elk and xn0ize popped into team chat at least once to discuss vault, but the only changes made from it were 2 Short Swords and a missing Nightmare.

And then war started, initially it was just sending decks in vault to the appropriate opponents based on bias alone of course, with no games played we had little to go on in terms of prediction. The only thing I knew certain was that Death would bring Bonebolt :p But, as rounds progressed, I ended up building decks, handling salvage/discard, making predictions, testing the decks, etc... when my war app explicitly mentioned I did NOT want to spend more than 3 hours per day on war. So I had to cut essential steps for winning war: no vault intel, bad predictions, minimal testing... These kinds of things are the difference between victory and defeat, obviously. The decks I properly predicted tended to be decks re-used from previous rounds: constantly re-using the same decks makes it (relatively) trivial for your opponent to predict and counter them.

The one round we 4-1-ed I was like: screw it, let's go crazy. So I decided to build decks completely by my own style and going all out on craziness right up until the round we were eliminated. The main reason we were eliminated that round was that I had little choice but to re-use old decks at that point: vault was pretty much fully used, save for a few Fahrens and Deflags.

Perhaps next war I should make it more clear on how I don't feel like doing all that crap by not doing it, though that shall partially depend on whether I join it and as which role. I apologize if someone thinks I made a fuss over something at any point in war, but doing WAY more than planned and still losing had me rather annoyed throughout war. Of course, like I said so far, it was not all that surprising.

Offline Espithel

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Re: War #10 - Voices of the Fallen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63362.msg1249598#msg1249598
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2016, 05:05:21 pm »
This is the last war I'm participating in. It's got nothing to do with any person or team or WM, you've all been wonderful; it's just that for three times now, war has only proven to me everything I dislike about EtG, and somehow manages to make those issues worse.

Given how the entire balance of war is based around something that isn't balanced to begin with (the 12 elements); how deckbuilding is so, so much more important than playing the game to the point where games often feel like they autopilot and I'm just checking with someone else that the deck works; and how the entire meta is based around hate and rigid, hardcounter-or-useless counterplay... I'm exaggurating. Still true though.

Yeah, I'm outta 'ere.

I'll probably temporarily donate my account to a lucky sod who needs it next year. Fek, might confer with the weekly tournament organisers to see if I can do that for them, too.

Insert the standard "We were somewhat inactive, we didn't communicate well, My team was awesome though, I should've probably tried some more vault intel as the death PR thread wasn't good enough, best of luck to remaining teams" commentary here. It's all true and indeed I ask for the best of luck for y'all, but ew. Go go team wadur.

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Re: War #10 - Voices of the Fallen https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63362.msg1249608#msg1249608
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2016, 06:07:22 pm »
I'll apologize to my team up front for not being able to be as involved with this War as I'd have liked.  I did say in conversations with at least several members of the forum that I was expecting to be somewhat less active than in the past two wars but that I would still do as I could, and therefore would be a candidate for a lower slot on a roster.  I'd been trying to get an ESL job for several months without success, and suddenly got an opportunity to do so shortly after War started, which resulted in my having to move internationally and generally being pretty busy with moving-related situations.  I still tried to contribute as I could, but being fairly unfamiliar with Fire's main decks, I generally didn't have a whole lot of strategic insight even when I did have the time.

I take some pride in having been able to play nearly all of my own matches and not forcing my team to use a sub on me, but I recognize that my contributions were pretty mediocre at best.  The team needed to have more players who were active and had experience with Fire, and I was neither. 
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