Poll

Who would be the best Master of Life?

willng3
39 (68.4%)
Helston
9 (15.8%)
Arthanasios
9 (15.8%)

Total Members Voted: 56

Voting closed: November 05, 2012, 01:46:53 pm

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Offline willng3

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44401.msg1011693#msg1011693
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2012, 11:39:23 pm »
Will: Do you feel you can defend your title this time? Why or why not?
Yes.  Despite my opponent(s) being experienced in this area, I believe myself to be more experienced.  I also anticipate having an upgrade advantage, but that may or may not have a noticeable effect on the outcome.
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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44401.msg1011707#msg1011707
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2012, 12:08:40 am »
It's been said many times that Life needs PC. But do you think it would benefit more instead from some form of PP: Permanent Protection? Currently only Earth has real PP, and Darkness has half-PP (it runs out). Having PP would certainly make it stand out more as an Element.
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Offline willng3

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44401.msg1011711#msg1011711
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2012, 12:26:42 am »
It's been said many times that Life needs PC. But do you think it would benefit more instead from some form of PP: Permanent Protection? Currently only Earth has real PP, and Darkness has half-PP (it runs out). Having PP would certainly make it stand out more as an Element.
I think that the biggest reason that people believe Life needs some form of PC is because a lot of the cards in its arsenal are negated by various shield types.  When those shields come into play, the Life deck's speed is decreased as well, and as such it gives the opponent time to deal the damage they need to win faster.  Thus if PC was present then the deck's speed would not be impeded.  Now, if people are saying that Life needs PC then I would assume it's because their ability to rush is getting hindered, so permanent protection wouldn't have much of an impact on them.

From my perspective I also do not think permanent protection at the moment would be a very noticeable benefit for Life, not just because it doesn't do anything for its ability to rush, but because even those permanents that Life considers most beneficial (Bonds, Carapace and Staves) currently aren't in a position where permanent protection is solving their problems.  Bonds have an issue with CC first and foremost, and Staves can be flown or replaced fairly easily.  Carapace is about the only permanent I could see getting the biggest use out of this at the moment for the reason that stealing it can causes huge problems for the Life user.

However, I should add that I don't really think that what Life needs right now is PC either.  Permanent protection would be nice, but I think there's other areas that need to be addressed before adding that to Life's arsenal.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 12:30:14 am by willng3 »
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Offline mrpaper

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44401.msg1011723#msg1011723
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2012, 01:08:05 am »
Which card is life strongest asset and why?

Offline willng3

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44401.msg1011727#msg1011727
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2012, 01:10:55 am »
Which card is life strongest asset and why?
Mitosis.  It can easily go from being offensive (damage spam) or defensive (healing in the case of bonds, quanta generation depending on the creature) or it can do both at the same time.  Other than maybe Feral Bond, I would really consider this to be the card that represents Life as a whole.
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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44401.msg1011785#msg1011785
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2012, 05:20:13 am »
@Will
Does life need more healing? Life is supposed to represent healing, but I only count bond, staff and heal (SoG doesn't really count). Is this enough? Should Life have more healing? If so, how should it be implemented?

@Helston
Why the element of life? What stuck out to you about it and what are its key characteristics?

@Art
Your phase 2 results weren't too spectacular. Why do you think this was the case? What have you learned from that experience? How will you improve and convince others that you are fit for Life PvP?

Offline willng3

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44401.msg1011786#msg1011786
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2012, 05:21:31 am »
@Will
Does life need more healing? Life is supposed to represent healing, but I only count bond, staff and heal (SoG doesn't really count). Is this enough? Should Life have more healing? If so, how should it be implemented?
No.  I feel it needs better ways to utilize the healing it already has, which is otherwise fine as it stands.
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Offline Helston

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44401.msg1012048#msg1012048
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2012, 11:22:28 am »
(Helston) You have highly surprised me in phase 2. But i don't really know you. Could you tell us a bit about yourself, and do you think you got chances to move to final and beat willng3? ( the tell us about yourself no need to be paragraphs)

Spoiler for Hidden:
You're not the only one who was surprised by my phase 2 results. Admittedly there was a walkover and a win by default, but I'm still happy with my performance.

Do I stand a chance against will? He has the advantages of a more Life PvP experience, previous experience in the Trials finals and better PvP experience in general, but would I be in this if I didn't have a shot at actually winning?

Question to everyone: What's your favorite creature to use Adrenaline on, and if possible, tell me why :)
Spoiler for Hidden:
Without a doubt that has to be Horned Frogs. I don't bring it out often due to fear of possible CC or shields, but having what is effectively a 12|3 on the field for 6 :life and 2 cards is just fantastic when you want to blast through your opponent.

Some other favourites are Titans and Elite Chargers for 15 (or 17) momentum damage, Archangels for that 7HP backed up by Heal, and the classic Adrenastaff.

What is a card that life is really weak too? And don't say dims (as any pc-less element is weak to that), and don't say wings (life dragons are pretty good).
Spoiler for Hidden:
To me Discord and Dimensional Shield are the two cards toughest to face as Life, but I'm going to assume Discord isn't a valid answer either.

Life's biggest weaknesses are generally considered to be shields and creature control. Life is very reliant upon having and buffing creatures on the field and if there's the right shield up (read: Dimensional Shield), we have only one in-element way of getting around that, and it works best before the shield's up.

Alternatively, if we get a buffed creature out onto the field, and it's done away with via Owl's Eye, Eternity or Lightning we're . However, I don't mind countering creature control. One of life's strengths is being able to use a large number of cheap creatures, even without Mitosis or Fractal. It will often weaken a deck a little, and is much easier with upgraded Frogs and Cocks than their unupgraded forms, but can allow for that little bit of extra flexibility. What's more there are plenty of creatures within Life's grasp that have some CC resistance.

Shields are another matter though. Life decks tend to either be built to counter shields, or built to hope their not facing one. Life's most consistent answer to a strong shield is oustalling it, followed by duoing into Gravity, Darkness or Fire specifically expecting a shield. For this reason my answer is Titanium Shield/Diamond Shield. Emerald Dragons can easily get around it, and the 6HP makes them a great dragon, but if you're not packing them you really need to hope your deck's a direct counter to theirs.

EDIT: Also, life allready has a lot of healing, if you could remove one healing card and replace it for something else (concept, not specific card), what would it be and why?
Spoiler for Hidden:
This is a tricky question, because I like Life's healing. Heal provides a niche of fitting into fast decks where you're looking for just one or two more turns and being much more splashable other Life cards, whilst still providing enough healing for major stalls. Empathic Bonds is nigh unstoppable assuming you can set it up and your opponent doesn't have enough PC. Druidic Staff sits in the middle, not as strong as some weapons, but better than others, giving Life something consistant to work with.

If I had to replace one, it would be Heal. Its flexibility is its ultimate downfall, being outclassed in rushes by other elements' PC and CC or just generally splashable cards, and falls well short of the healing provided by Sanctuaries in large stalls. I would replace it with another defensive card, some sort of creature protection, personal protection or some combination of the two. Trees are large, sturdy and living things, and even in the background for Emerald Pillars. Why not a defensive tree-themed card?

Emphatic bond is weak to pc and cc, what you think that can solve this?
Spoiler for Hidden:
Empathic Bond isn't really that weak versus single target CC. Obviously taking out a creature weakens it, but reducing each bond's healing by one, or even two or three, isn't really that much when the card works best with swarms. Naturally Mass CC is a direct counter, but they're designed that way and it's a perfectly acceptable weakness.

As for PC, I'd like to see PC and permanent protection play a larger role in Elements in general. Extra forms of soft permanent control and protection (like Rejuvenation for soft PC and Vines for both control and protection (not implying life should get both or even one of the two, just the first two examples I could think of)) spread amongst the elements. While this would obviously place more permanent control into the game, it should also decrease the relative power of it, so decks should be less likely to just throw in that Deflag that ruined your only Empathic Bond.

Do you think that mitosis is inferior to parallel universe? If yes what you think of mitosis giving a defensive buff (+defense stat/anti cc shield) for the target creature?
Spoiler for Hidden:
Mitosis is far from inferior to Parallel Universe; they serve different purposes. PU focuses on burst damage, while Mitosis focuses on swarming. Mitosis is much more useful on cheaper creatures where you can use their numbers to your advantage (like RoL or Devourer). And if you're running with :light and Rustlers, you can get a very similar mid-game effect to PU by putting Mitosis on an Emerald Dragon and pumping out the :life.

I think you've asked those questions the wrong way around, nensuru. I would argue that Mitosis is too vulnerable to CC and that Empathic Bonds is inferior to other forms of healing and defense. Mitosis is certainly made for swarming, which is an indirect counter to single target CC, but if they only need to take out the mother creature, suddenly Mitosis is a lot less helpful. While some sort of defensive buff for Mitosis would definitely be handy, it would be difficult to work in thematically and could easily make the card overpowered. Empathic Bonds on the other hand really needs a swarm before its effective at all. Until you've got 7 or so creatures Heal is usually the better healing card, but by then there's a good chance you're already dead.

Helston: You're not well-known in this forum, mostly because you're a lurker. What would you do when you become the Master?
Spoiler for Hidden:
I'll probably be a bit more visible, although I'm trying that a bit more anyway with my Warmasterness and whatnot. I'm usually a quiet guy, hence the lurking, but little by little I'm trying to become a bigger part of the community. I'd obviously need to take an active part in the Life section (not as though it sees much traffic anyway =/), and I don't know, generally promote and represent the element a little more? Also, I'll change the Warmaster blue in my avatar to Life green.

I'm not sure what I would do about Brawl. I was hoping to participate this time around, but I'm not sure if I'm keen on it anymore. Like I said, I'm not exactly a socialite, but what I saw of Brawl (I was very busy with uni at the time) has dissuaded me a little. I guess I'll tackle that problem when it comes around.

It's been said many times that Life needs PC. But do you think it would benefit more instead from some form of PP: Permanent Protection? Currently only Earth has real PP, and Darkness has half-PP (it runs out). Having PP would certainly make it stand out more as an Element.
Spoiler for Hidden:
Although I wrote above about how dangerous shields are for Life, I would prefer to see more indirect counters to permanents. Permanent protection might be one way of helping achieve that. Even if not for Life's permanents, but for others we duo into to potentially give our stalls a bit more flavour. In the real world, life is a pretty resilient thing - a meteor hit the planet sixty million years ago causing devastating damage all around the planet, but here we are now. I'd like to see a little more of that in game.

Which card is life strongest asset and why?
Spoiler for Hidden:
Light usually outclasses us in healing, despite Empathic Bonds, Heal and Druidic Staff, we have the second weakest CC in the game consisting of the seldom used Thorn Carapace and the once-in-a-blue-moon CC of Mitosis. Our vanilla creatures might be the best, but that's a debatable. Mitosis can be emulated by Fractal or Parallel Universe depending on the circumstances.

My answer is Adrenaline, because there is nothing else like it. No other card can turn low and mid-range attackers into powerhouses like Adrenaline can. It works on quanta producers and stealers, creatures which poison, purified Voodoo Dolls, crazy decks designed to bluff creatures into oblivion], acceleration, and directly counters freeze and delay. In the right deck it is an insane card.

@Helston
Why the element of life? What stuck out to you about it and what are its key characteristics?
Spoiler for hooray, last question for now:
When I first submitted my application for War 5, I just had entropy as my favourite element, which was true at the time. Shortly before the auction began, I changed my mind about it - I enjoy the concept behind entropy, but from what I had seen the last War I wasn't really a fan of how it played. I decided to put up three elements I'd like to learn about (and had no idea how to play) instead: Air, Life and Time. Next thing I knew, will bought me for 3 cards.

Why did it stick? For starters I'm one of those people who likes to stubbornly stick with the weaker side in games and try to make it work. Secondly, and far more importantly, adrenaline. I also like the swarming options Mitosis opens up, I'm beginning to appreciate Life's many opportunities to win through stalling, and will with a Frogtal is a close third on the list of men I would swing the other way for (he's got some pretty good competition)(also just will, not the frogs).

ADDENDUM:

@Helston
what are its key characteristics?

Oops, missed that bit.

Life is almost entirely focused on creatures. This works as a good starting point for connecting with any other element, as the vast majority of decks are creature based. Elements with creatures which gain bonuses in numbers or through attacking, or have some other way to strengthen creatures, thus synergise very well with Life.

Life's creatures (with the exception of Emerald Dragon) are very cheap, but left alone can cause quite a impact, especially if aided by Mitosis or Adrenaline. Life also has two of the best mid-ranged attackers in upped play - Giant Frog and Elite Cockatrice are well worth the mere 2 or 3 :life to play them.

Finally, Life is reactive, mostly through healing. Thorn Carapace is clearly an example of this, but Empathic Bonds and Heal show this too. Empathic Bonds is strongest with a large group of creatures, which takes time to build up, and thus is far more often seen turning the tide of a battle than winning a game from the outset. Heal too, stalling either so you have enough time to deal a finishing blow, or draw some other wonder card.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 06:40:23 am by Helston »
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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44401.msg1013283#msg1013283
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2012, 01:52:38 pm »
Ouch Arthana. Too bad.
Maybe next time. Maybe after War.
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  • ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.
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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44401.msg1013290#msg1013290
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2012, 02:07:54 pm »
Ouch Arthana. Too bad.
Maybe next time. Maybe after War.

I don't think 9 votes are bad, quite the opposite. Thanks for these 8 people who have voted for me! Hope seeing you in Brawl guys (but not as a Master, unfortunately)! 8)
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Offline Bootsza

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Re: Phase 3 - Community Vote https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=44401.msg1013323#msg1013323
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2012, 04:18:11 pm »
I don't think 9 votes are bad, quite the opposite. Thanks for these 8 people who have voted for me! Hope seeing you in Brawl guys (but not as a Master, unfortunately)! 8)

I agree.  When you have an established Master with the popularity of someone like Will - 9 votes is a good showing.

Well done.
It is too late to apologise.  I have already forgiven you.

 

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