*Author

Offline mathman101Topic starter

  • Administrator (Warblind)
  • ********
  • ********
  • Posts: 2227
  • Country: ca
  • Reputation Power: 49
  • mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.
  • I like pet 'thoup!!
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday Cake13th Trials - Master of LifeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeBrawl #7 Winner - Green NightWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSilver DonorWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: 12th Trials - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66109.msg1277551#msg1277551
« on: July 01, 2018, 09:03:10 pm »
Liked something? Didn't like something? Have a cool idea for next Trials? Let us know!

Your posts here will have a big impact on the rules for the 13th Trials, so every tiny detail is greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 11:57:45 pm by serprex »
something....something....something.....

Offline Wyand

  • Tournament Organizer
  • *****
  • ******
  • Posts: 2283
  • Country: hu
  • Reputation Power: 37
  • Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.
  • Not So Young Elemental
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 15th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 14th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 13th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner (2020.12.27.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.11.15.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.10.11.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.10.04.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.09.14.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.09.05.)Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner 2020.1.1913th Trials - Master of EntropyWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerElements League 2/2019 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerArt Competition - Winter Paint With Elements WinnerTeam Deckbuilding/Writing Competition - A Matter of Logistics WinnerArt Competition - Definitely A Card Design CompetitionSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: Re: 12th Trials - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66109.msg1277604#msg1277604
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2018, 04:03:35 pm »
I don't mean any disrespect, however as a newcomer I must ask: why are the rules so conservative, why do they favor reigning masters and more experienced players?
<---- A nice purple pie, shiny cups and a trio of cakes on a red platter, a box of candies and an ice cream cone on chocolate! :) Bon appétit!

"It's hard to detect good luck - it looks so much like something you've earned." - Frank A. Clark

Offline Aves

  • Competition Organizer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2815
  • Reputation Power: 43
  • Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.
  • ~Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet~
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 14th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeBest Looking Forum Profile Slice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeForum Brawl #6 Winner - The Tentacle's GripSilver DonorBattle League 2/2016 2nd PlaceWinner of Card Design War #3Slice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeBattle League 1/2016 1st PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #9 Winner - Team DarknessWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: Re: 12th Trials - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66109.msg1277605#msg1277605
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2018, 04:10:41 pm »
I don't mean any disrespect, however as a newcomer I must ask: why are the rules so conservative, why do they favor reigning masters and more experienced players?

The way I've always looked at is is that the rules favor previous participation in the community because Masters are expected to participate in the community, especially in the major events like War.
:darkness War # 4, 9, 10
:darkness League of Shadows :darkness Brawl # 5

The Tentacle's Grip Brawl # 6

Offline Wyand

  • Tournament Organizer
  • *****
  • ******
  • Posts: 2283
  • Country: hu
  • Reputation Power: 37
  • Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.
  • Not So Young Elemental
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 15th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 14th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 13th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner (2020.12.27.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.11.15.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.10.11.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.10.04.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.09.14.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.09.05.)Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner 2020.1.1913th Trials - Master of EntropyWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerElements League 2/2019 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerArt Competition - Winter Paint With Elements WinnerTeam Deckbuilding/Writing Competition - A Matter of Logistics WinnerArt Competition - Definitely A Card Design CompetitionSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: Re: 12th Trials - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66109.msg1277606#msg1277606
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2018, 04:18:19 pm »
That's something called experience in my opinion, so let their greater experience help the Masters. In my eyes rules like these are pretty much elitists.
Meanwhile I understand the notion that the system wants to reward long time players, true veterans. At the same time we should consider that this game
will live like for one and a half year - players who arrived in the last 1-2 years (or will arrive later) are already handicapped, and will stay handicapped.
<---- A nice purple pie, shiny cups and a trio of cakes on a red platter, a box of candies and an ice cream cone on chocolate! :) Bon appétit!

"It's hard to detect good luck - it looks so much like something you've earned." - Frank A. Clark

Offline JonathanCrazyJ

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4216
  • Country: gb
  • Reputation Power: 65
  • JonathanCrazyJ walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.JonathanCrazyJ walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.JonathanCrazyJ walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.JonathanCrazyJ walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.JonathanCrazyJ walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.JonathanCrazyJ walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.JonathanCrazyJ walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.JonathanCrazyJ walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.JonathanCrazyJ walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.JonathanCrazyJ walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.JonathanCrazyJ walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.JonathanCrazyJ walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.JonathanCrazyJ walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.
  • Top-Decking Words
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWar #12 Winner - Team DarknessWinner of Team PvP #812th Trials - Master of WaterSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeDeckbuilding Competition - Hierarchy11th Trials - Master of WaterSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeCard Competition - Idea Factory EspionageForum Brawl #6 Winner - The Tentacle's GripChampionship League 3/2016 2nd PlaceWar #10 - Sportsmanship AwardWeekly Tournament Winner	 Writing Competition: Elemental Rap WarBattle League 2/2016 1st Place10th Trials - Master of WaterWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeDeckbuilding Competition - No Matter How Many Times You Save The World2015 - PvP World ChampionForum Brawl #5 Winner - Abyss BrawlersBattle League 3/2015 1st PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerCompetition - Result ModifiersSolved the Ruby Mansion MurderBattle League 2/2015 3rd PlaceCard Competition - When Life Gives You Art...Writing Competition - 6th Birthday PartySlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeBattle League 1/2015 2nd PlaceSilver Donor
Re: Re: 12th Trials - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66109.msg1277607#msg1277607
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2018, 04:31:52 pm »
Full disclosure, personally, if i choose to defend (and it is a BIG if) i intend to offer my opponent matching upgrades if TrOs allow it.
I do not think all masters should, only reason im thinking about it is i dont want to general next war and id like a worthy replacement. I think rewarding masters is important. It SHOULD be hard to overthrow a master. You have to prove you are fit to be a general which is the hardest thing in elements. A lucky trials victory by an inexperienced new player can doom an element in war.
Competitions!
Competition Mailing Lists are a SERVICE TAILORED FOR YOU!
If you like any Competitions at all, check them out, we are here for you!

Offline Wyand

  • Tournament Organizer
  • *****
  • ******
  • Posts: 2283
  • Country: hu
  • Reputation Power: 37
  • Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.Wyand is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.
  • Not So Young Elemental
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 15th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 14th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 13th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner (2020.12.27.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.11.15.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.10.11.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.10.04.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.09.14.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.09.05.)Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner 2020.1.1913th Trials - Master of EntropyWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerElements League 2/2019 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerArt Competition - Winter Paint With Elements WinnerTeam Deckbuilding/Writing Competition - A Matter of Logistics WinnerArt Competition - Definitely A Card Design CompetitionSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: Re: 12th Trials - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66109.msg1277608#msg1277608
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2018, 04:44:37 pm »
Your last phrase is a good argument.
<---- A nice purple pie, shiny cups and a trio of cakes on a red platter, a box of candies and an ice cream cone on chocolate! :) Bon appétit!

"It's hard to detect good luck - it looks so much like something you've earned." - Frank A. Clark

Offline Manuel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1676
  • Country: it
  • Reputation Power: 23
  • Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Manuel is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 15th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 14th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 13th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner12th Trials - Master of AirSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeBrawl #7 Winner - Green NightWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #11 Winner - Team LifeCard Design Competition - Help Wanted WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerCard Competition - ChampionSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: Re: 12th Trials - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66109.msg1277609#msg1277609
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2018, 05:16:08 pm »
I don't mean any disrespect, however as a newcomer I must ask: why are the rules so conservative, why do they favor reigning masters and more experienced players?

i won last war and won last brawl, all i have is a 1 + 1 bonus point (always if i can reach the final battle, rng sucks) rather than who partecipated without winning nothing (and i am the only person to have won both this year)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 05:21:56 pm by Manuel »

Offline Vindilos

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 493
  • Country: nl
  • Reputation Power: 8
  • Vindilos is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • Young Elemental
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner (2020.05.31.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.05.24.)Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeBronze DonorWeekly Tournament WinnerElements League 2/2018 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner 03.06.18Weekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerElements League 1/2018 1st PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: Re: 12th Trials - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66109.msg1277610#msg1277610
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2018, 06:04:12 pm »
We had this discussion before, but it might be good to write this down.

Current rules give old generation players an advantage over the current generation. They get more upgrades and do not fight on equal terms.
Old generation players often are the people who defend this idea. Sometimes with good reasons, sometimes with bad reasons. I think a good pvp player, motivated for that element, should get the title.

I think its stronger to not have these bonusses and replace this with a more important voting system. If most people vote for the challenger instead of the old master, the challenger might be more worthy.
Why are current masters so scared to fight on equal terms? Do they need the preferential treatment? Can't they win a best of 7?
The current system does not encourage new players to participate, even when they are talented. When I see the list of masters the same people keep showing up, which might not always be a good thing.

The best reason to keep this system in place is to give the master title to an experienced player for War reasons. I like this reason a lot. You could make the prerequirements higher so only the best apply.
Experience is not the same as quality however. I won more weekly tournaments then a several old masters, yet dont qualify for any of the bonusses. Winning War, as mentioned above, is also good proof of quality, but isnt being taken into account. Are the winners of the war too inexperienced ... for war?
I think quality is what you expect from a master, yet the wrong things are being promoted.

Trials is a time a lot of old masters come back to defend their title. If we havent seen them for 6 months have they really defended the honor of their element? And if they say they will lead the element during war, does that statement have credibility?

Brawl gives bonus points for War. I think the master title should be a pvp thing. One reason for giving people who participated in Brawl bonus points is that masters should defend their element in all sorts of events and Brawl being linked to trials, just link trials and war are linked. If you had a team entropy and team death for brawl that makes sense, but currently it doesn't. I like the idea of being a master to be a pvp thing. You are the leader in the war. This is why I don't like the Brawl bonus being there. Brawl is not a pvp event.

Masters are expected to participate in the community, yet a lot of them are inactive. The only master that plays a lot of weekly tournaments is Danieela. Where is the rest? Having participated in last years trials or this years brawl does not make you active. I would rather see a bonus based on current activity.
I expect masters to participate in the community, especially in the major events like War. This is why im still waiting for the master of aether to finish the semi finals of the 2017 world championship. PM me the results!

I do like the idea of loyalty to the element being taken into account. I think there are multiple ways to show loyalty to your element. You could easily let new people show their loyalty in different ways however. Playing the elements during pvp events or other tournaments could also show loyalty, without excluding new players.
I also think new players should be able to enlist as a spectator for trials so they get the loyalty bonus next year. Maybe the spectators can fight eachother for pvp event bonusses to save up for nymphs. Now they cannot participate in a pvp event unless they want the title.

I have protection from wall of text. If you didn't have this, you are now dead.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 06:11:42 pm by Vindilos »
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Bunny combines well with onions, carrots and garlic.
(")_(") Copy and Paste Bunny to show your appreciation of a good meal!

Offline iancudorinmarian

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3772
  • Country: ro
  • Reputation Power: 67
  • iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.
  • Master of Ponies.Eternally salty about War#11 SEC.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWar #12 Winner - Team Darkness12th Trials - Master of EntropyWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner11th Trials - Master of EntropySlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWinner of TrinityWinner of Team PvP #710th Trials - Master of EntropySlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner9th Trials - Master of EntropyWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 5th Birthday Cake
Re: Re: 12th Trials - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66109.msg1277611#msg1277611
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2018, 06:19:19 pm »
We significantly reduced the bonus for war and brawl, yet there's still complaining.

Community voting is a horrible idea. The community vote is popularity contest at best, which has been shown by phase 3 results in the past.

And on your activity point, being a master doesn't mean I have to give my life to the community and participate in everything.

Offline Aves

  • Competition Organizer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2815
  • Reputation Power: 43
  • Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Aves soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.
  • ~Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet~
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 14th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeBest Looking Forum Profile Slice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeForum Brawl #6 Winner - The Tentacle's GripSilver DonorBattle League 2/2016 2nd PlaceWinner of Card Design War #3Slice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeBattle League 1/2016 1st PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #9 Winner - Team DarknessWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: Re: 12th Trials - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66109.msg1277612#msg1277612
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2018, 06:55:59 pm »
Current rules give old generation players an advantage over the current generation. They get more upgrades and do not fight on equal terms.
Old generation players often are the people who defend this idea. Sometimes with good reasons, sometimes with bad reasons. I think a good pvp player, motivated for that element, should get the title.
Defending masters often get over 30 upgrades. Most decks do not exceed 30 cards. To a worthy challenger, there is no effective difference in upgrades. The difference between 5 upgrades and 10 is significant. The difference between 25 and 35 is much less so.

Alternatively, we know that the defending Master is a good pvp player-- they've won a Trials and participated in many PvP events! We don't know the same for some unknown new player. Now, if that new player has made a name for themselves, then they'll likely be voted as worthy and we go back to the first point of no effective difference.

I think its stronger to not have these bonusses and replace this with a more important voting system. If most people vote for the challenger instead of the old master, the challenger might be more worthy.
Why are current masters so scared to fight on equal terms? Do they need the preferential treatment? Can't they win a best of 7?
The current system does not encourage new players to participate, even when they are talented. When I see the list of masters the same people keep showing up, which might not always be a good thing.
Could you name an example where the challenger has been considered more worthy than the master, and lost? I'll argue the opposite, with regard to participation-- rewarding people for long term participation is an encouragement for people to become long term participants.

The best reason to keep this system in place is to give the master title to an experienced player for War reasons. I like this reason a lot. You could make the prerequirements higher so only the best apply.
Experience is not the same as quality however. I won more weekly tournaments then a several old masters, yet dont qualify for any of the bonusses. Winning War, as mentioned above, is also good proof of quality, but isnt being taken into account. Are the winners of the war too inexperienced ... for war?
I think quality is what you expect from a master, yet the wrong things are being promoted.
The prerequisites were indeed higher in the past, as were the bonuses. I believe they were lowered precisely because of arguments like the ones you brought up earlier, against rewarding prior participation.

Trials is a time a lot of old masters come back to defend their title. If we havent seen them for 6 months have they really defended the honor of their element? And if they say they will lead the element during war, does that statement have credibility?

Well, if they're unworthy, it'll show in their Trials. We can judge them on what they have demonstrated to us. The same applies to new people-- we can judge them on what they have shown us. Odii Odsen, for example, was a new player who made a name for himself by smashing people PvP.

Brawl gives bonus points for War. I think the master title should be a pvp thing. One reason for giving people who participated in Brawl bonus points is that masters should defend their element in all sorts of events and Brawl being linked to trials, just link trials and war are linked. If you had a team entropy and team death for brawl that makes sense, but currently it doesn't. I like the idea of being a master to be a pvp thing. You are the leader in the war. This is why I don't like the Brawl bonus being there. Brawl is not a pvp event.

Brawl teams were intended to be element-linked, but there wasn't enough interest. In the current system, Brawl teams still retain an elemental affiliation-- it's just not quite as obvious, and far more creative, as suits the spirit of Brawl. For example, "Firey Hot Mixtape" and "League of Shadows" instead of "Team Fire" and "Team Darkness."

As for Masters being a PvP thing, well, they aren't. PvP is a major part, but not the 100%, just like how PvP is a major part of our community, but not the entirety of it
:darkness War # 4, 9, 10
:darkness League of Shadows :darkness Brawl # 5

The Tentacle's Grip Brawl # 6

Offline worldwideweb3

  • Master of Air
  • *
  • Posts: 3415
  • Country: gb
  • Reputation Power: 63
  • worldwideweb3 shines with the light of the Morning Glory!worldwideweb3 shines with the light of the Morning Glory!worldwideweb3 shines with the light of the Morning Glory!worldwideweb3 shines with the light of the Morning Glory!worldwideweb3 shines with the light of the Morning Glory!worldwideweb3 shines with the light of the Morning Glory!worldwideweb3 shines with the light of the Morning Glory!worldwideweb3 shines with the light of the Morning Glory!worldwideweb3 shines with the light of the Morning Glory!worldwideweb3 shines with the light of the Morning Glory!worldwideweb3 shines with the light of the Morning Glory!worldwideweb3 shines with the light of the Morning Glory!
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 15th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner (2021.01.03.)Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.11.22.)14th Trials - Master of AirWeekly Tournament Winner (2020.06.28.)Weekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner (2020.05.03.)Elements League 3/2019 2nd PlaceSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeElements League 3/2018 1st PlaceWinner of Team PvP #812th Trials - Master of AetherElements: Academy WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerElements League 2/2017 3rd PlaceWinner of Draft #4 - PvP Event11th Trials - Master of FireBattle League 1/2017 1st PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League and Championship League 3/2016 1st PlaceChampionship League 2/2016 1st Place10th Trials - Master of GravityChampionship League 1/2016 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 3/2015 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 1/2015 1st PlaceWar #8 Winner - Team FireBattle League 2/2014 2nd Place
Re: Re: 12th Trials - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66109.msg1277613#msg1277613
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2018, 07:44:02 pm »
P.S try discuss this in suggestions and feedback, and keep this thread only for clarification of rules etc.
P.S go read ian's post again.
First player to become master of 3 different elements.
WC 2016 - #2. WC 2015 - #3 Devil's gate, Trinity, War #10, 12 lives - #2.
Avvy by rob77dp
Rightful winner of war #14 - Team Air

Offline CCCombobreaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1028
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 16
  • CCCombobreaker is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.CCCombobreaker is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.CCCombobreaker is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Sometimes still here...
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament WinnerScreenshot #3 Competition WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: 12th Trials - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66109.msg1277616#msg1277616
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2018, 08:52:45 pm »
I have participated in trials when I was quite new to the community, I have also been a TrO.  I value both of these experiences, and they both shaped my view of the event.  I feel it important to weigh in on this issue because of how important I believe Trials is, and because I value the community members involved, and do not think we should be alienating passionate newcomers as we try to convey why Trials is the way it is.  I know I am not the most faithful, longest tenured, or most decorated community member.  But I care a lot, and Trials is special to me.

I think a large portion of this disagreement is the two competing fundamentally different perspectives on Trials that have always existed:
1) This is a PvP event that I want to win to prove I am worthy of being a Master - I will call these Provers
2) This is a community event designed to reveal who is most worthy of being a Master- I will call these Revealers

Spoiler for Prover's stance:
For the most part, newer passionate members of the community, often those who display a great deal of skill in PvP events, fall into the Prover camp.  This is a big PvP event, draws a lot of community attention, and is a chance for them to test themselves against experienced members with high stakes.  They believe that winning Trials is proof that they are worthy, and so competing in the event is important, AS IS the event being as level a playing field as possible.  If someone with an upper hand wins, that DID NOT prove anything.

So Provers are generally against "historical" bonuses.  Why should participating in a previous War, or Brawl, or even being the current master convey an advantage in a PvP event?  That makes it unfair, and invalidates the results to the degree the bonuses affect them.  Past Trials should be irrelevant to the current Trials, and the current Trials is more important than any future Trials. 

To a Prover, the current Trials is arduous, over complicated, and unfair. 

So the Provers generally voice the same simple requests: make the playing field flat and let me play regardless of my experience, if I win it proves I am really worthy.

Spoiler for Revealer's stance:
Many longtime community members view Trials a part of the lifecycle of the community.  They have been here through Trials and Wars and Brawls, they participate in the events they want to, and pass on others.  They have an idea of how they stack up against other long time players, so they don't feel compelled to join this large event to prove anything in most cases.  Their motivations could be that they want to lead a team in War, or they want to be immortalized on the list of Masters for an element, or they think they are the best person for the job so they have some small duty to step up to the task.

Most people in this camp recognize that being a Master is not a trophy they won under their name, it is a position of leadership they signed up for.  To this end, Trials is about Revealing who is most worthy of being a master, and the Trials rules were designed to capture as much as possible of what that meant.  Trials includes community involvement and community service through creative tasks and quirky challenges and interacting with community members as these things are accomplished.  It involves opportunities for community members to ask questions and read your answers and get to know you, and a vote where they can put a voice to who they believe has been revealed as the best candidate. 

It also involves playing PvP matches, because this community is built around a competitive card game, and leading war requires PvP skills.  And ultimately to become a Master you have to win.  But it's bigger than that, and more than that.  And being a Master isn't about being the best PvPer in an element.  It is about representing that element to the community, and ideally leading the element into war.  Building a team of other community members and a vault of cards and leading them into battle where they have to win matches, not just you.

Being in the community for longer helps with many of these aspects.  It builds relationships, it helps others learn to trust you, and helps you learn who you want on your team.   That's why there are bonuses you accrue over time for participating in other events.  That's why their is a community vote.  And some of those things are flavored to fit into the bigger themes and stories we build around this card game.  TrOs have tried to make them make sense, and be balanced, but ultimately Trials and War were about creating an environment to keep the story of Elements alive. 

To a Revealer, a simple PvP tournament could never show us what we need to know to determine the best masters.

Revealers generally voice these requests: we want as many aspects of the community to matter to the Trials as possible, we want to reward those who have contributed to the story of elements and the Trials in the past, and we want a voice in deciding who all the Masters will be.  The process will be more complicated, but through the process, the best candidates will be revealed and we shall honor them with the title of Master.

Spoiler for my appeal to the Provers:
Provers, you have to understand that over time, the requirements have diminished greatly(!!!) to enter trials, and the Revealer's have not been happy about it.  Each change to the entry requirements feels like a huge concession.  "People used to sit out trials because they didn't have 200 posts, why aren't the new people now happy that they can participate?" >:(  "I had to play a final battle against someone with 7 loyalty upgrades, and now it's only 4, these new players are whiners."  >:( 
With each of these changes to the process, their accomplishments or defeats (and the grand history and story of Elements) feels diminished, slipping towards being forgotten.  Your request to "make it fair" is calling their carefully crafted process "bad" and telling them that their "legacy" is "trash".  So yeah, they get pretty defensive about it.  You need to have a little patience, give it a try as it is.  After you have been here a while, it will make more sense.  Participating in War gives such a different perspective on what being a General is, and why Trials is designed as it is.  The flow of the community is SLOW, I get it, but it was always designed that new people participate in War, then Brawl, then decide if they want to join Trials to become a Master.  (and why after winning Trials and leading teams in War, so many vets disappear (missing Brawl) until the next Trials).  Showing up right before Trials makes it feel like you are left out, and no one likes being left out, I get that.  You haven't had your chance yet, and this one is right here.  If it's so important why are all the vets still missing and nonchalant about it? :o  It isn't as special to them as your first Trials will probably be to you.  It isn't the first big chapter of their story, and they are also a little tired probably.  They've been on this adventure for a while.  I can't speak for all of them, but I think you'd get something like that if you asked most of them.

Spoiler for my appeal to the Revealers:
Revealers, the new players, especially skilled and active ones, are the lifeblood of this community.  We have to help them understand they are joining into a long tradition, an epic story, and that over time no great player has gone unnoticed.  We want them to compete and show their skills, and we should help them with that, especially as fewer and fewer find their way here.  I think that lowering the entrance requirement as the TrO's have is reasonable, as is slightly reducing the bonuses for phase 4.  But as this is the more prominent side in the community, we can't just tell them "accept it or GTFO", we gotta work with them.  We have to work with them if we still want to have entrants for each element by the time the next Trials rolls around.

I probably would prefer to chat with people that feel strongly about it, instead of trying to respond a bunch in this thread.  Turn-based giant text blocks are less conducive to listening and cooperation than real time conversation.  I just felt it important to give this discussion some framework and try to appeal to both sides.  Maybe there are people on some other position I'm not considering, and I'd be glad to talk with them too.
Deckbuilding mad scientist.  Come by and hang out in my stream!

 

anything
blarg: